Nephilim

Merlin · Jan 15, 2016

Bluelion said:
Yeah no the literal translations is sons of God, which Angels have been referred to as sons of God.

In the original Hebrew, the term used is ben-elohim.
Ben-is a descendant of
so then, the question is what is elohim?
In most bible translations it is god.
However, it is also used to mean a great one or powerful one.
In fact, it is even used to describe a mountain.

There is another Hebrew term which is translated "angel"
Now ask yourself, why would the bible and God use the word angel meaning angel
and then a totally different word to mean angel? Is God trying to confuse us?
Or is it just possible that he meant something else?

I am not claiming that ben-elohim means angel or man.
I am just saying it is more likely something else.

Merlin · Jan 15, 2016

PrettyboyAndy said:
I went through this whole thread quickly: - It's rather messy and bits of information scattered throughout.

Can someone give me a brief organized list for both arguments with bible verses?

Godly Line Interbreeding with Immoral line

and

Fallen Angels interbreeding with Humans

What the discussion boils down to is
What is 'ben-elohim' ?
Whatever ben-elohim is, they interbred with humans and created what we call nephelim

PrettyboyAndy · Jan 15, 2016

Merlin said:
What the discussion boils down to is
What is 'ben-elohim' ?
Whatever ben-elohim is, they interbred with humans and created what we call nephelim

Thanks, so which is it?!

I am very interested, I was actually just going to create a Nephilim thread..

Bluelion · Jan 15, 2016

PrettyboyAndy said:
I went through this whole thread quickly: - It's rather messy and bits of information scattered throughout.

Can someone give me a brief organized list for both arguments with bible verses?

Godly Line Interbreeding with Immoral line

and

Fallen Angels interbreeding with Humans

Ok i'll take a shot the two most arguments are first which I hold to is that Angels began to lust after human women and gave up their spot in Heaven to come to earth and take them as their wives. This explains a few things why these Angels were so beautiful and had their pick of any of the woman they wanted. It also explains why these men became great warriors and fighters having both Angel power and man. It also explains why all of sudden these men grew to become giants. In this argument the sons of God means Angels.

2nd argument is the sons of God means men who follow God and worship Him. That the bloodline was polluted by mixing of Godly and un Godly women. This would seems to explain the flood to restore the Bloodline, however, their are no Jews at this point, but bloodlines of cain and Seth which could be polluted; however, it does not explain why they had their pick of any woman or why they became giants if these were normal men.

Both sides hold the bloodline was polluted and was the reason for the flood.The first side says angels polluted the bloodline and created a new race which was never mean to be that of human and angels so God destroyed that race. 2nd argument holds holy men became corrupted from mixing with unholy women. The flood came about to correct the Bloodline for Jesus to be born. Both sides hold the bloodline needed to be corrected for Jesus to be born.

That is the best i got hope it helps.

Bluelion · Jan 15, 2016

Merlin said:
First off, the translation used in the bible says :
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
And then later the bible says :
Gen 11:13 After he begot Salah, Arphaxad lived four hundred and three years, and begot sons and daughters.
Now, either the bible is contradicting itself, the translation is contradicting itself or our understanding is in error.
It is my contention that the bible is never wrong.
It is either our understanding or the understanding of the man who translated it that is wrong.
Here, the bible seems to be contradicting itself if it is indeed saying that the lifespan of humans shall be 120 years.
If you read Genesis chapter 11 you will find other examples of people living passed 120 years after the flood.

Glad we are on the same page the Bible does not contradicted its self.

I can think of times when men lived past the 120 years most famous maybe Moses. But in every case those who lived past a 120 years were all men of God and walked closely with God. So i would suggest 120 years is for normal people who are not with God or walk that closely with Him. Those who God use and God has work for walk with Him and are so close to life they are allowed to live past 120 years. I would suggest this for an answer.

Bluelion · Jan 15, 2016

PrettyboyAndy said:
Thanks, so which is it?!

I am very interested, I was actually just going to create a Nephilim thread..

Like I said Ben- Elohim Literally means sons of God. This is from the Jewish site Hebrews for Christians. I would take it they know because they are Jews and it is their language. Here is a link to the name. http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Elohim/elohim.html

Bluelion · Jan 15, 2016

I would point out that Adam was called a son of God also, and those who followed God such as prophets were also called sons of God; however, Angels most often in the start of humans are referred to as the sons of God.

PrettyboyAndy · Jan 16, 2016

Bluelion said:
Like I said Ben- Elohim Literally means sons of God. This is from the Jewish site Hebrews for Christians. I would take it they know because they are Jews and it is their language. Here is a link to the name. http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Elohim/elohim.html

Hey Blue, I would like to get into this again. Still not sure if they are angels or man.

Merlin · Jan 16, 2016

PrettyboyAndy said:
Thanks, so which is it?!

I am very interested, I was actually just going to create a Nephilim thread..

I personaly believe it was neither.
when i think about the millions of life forms on earth i have a hard time believing that God created only angels in heaven.
I believe there are meany heavenly creatures, one of which the bible calls Ben-elohim.

Linet Kihonge · Jan 16, 2016

Okay.... I have done my little research and it's possible they were sons of GOD just that no one wants to take responsibility of the statement. So yes, there are verses on Nephilim and descendants of Nephilim.

Don't mind this, I will just re-quote the main verse, Genesis, 6:4, "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown."

The Giants Israelites saw before entering their PROMISED Land were the sons of Nephilims or Anakites, Numbers 13:33, "There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."

But they (most) were finally wiped out, Joshua 11:20-23, "Then Joshua came at that time and cut off the Anakim from the hill country, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab and from all the hill country of Judah and from all the hill country of Israel. Joshua utterly destroyed them with their cities. 22There were no Anakim left in the land of the sons of Israel; only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod some remained. 23So Joshua took the whole land, according to all that the LORD had spoken to Moses, and Joshua gave it for an inheritance to Israel according to their divisions by their tribes. Thus the land had rest from war."

Therefore, Nephilims and whatever happened to them after the floods is a story for another day, do not exist TODAY. But all the same, Anakites were real and some of the most interesting excavations are here

Bluelion · Jan 16, 2016

PrettyboyAndy said:
Hey Blue, I would like to get into this again. Still not sure if they are angels or man.

You can take a shot but I am pretty sure we are at a stale mate with all ground being covered and neither site giving an inch

FredVB · Jan 22, 2016

Racial characteristics can develop in a separate small community in a couple of centuries and much faster than had been thought. Remember that these generations of that time were lasting over the course of more than a century and surely with more children produced to the parents over that greater length of time, and surely more mutations were possible. This would have been occurring after a millennium from the fall after the creation of humanity. This explanation makes much more sense than expecting that such humans developed from spirit beings that manifested to physically breed with human women producing children from that. Nephilim were around at that time of these sons of God going to the daughters of men, not with actual explanation in the text that they produced the nephilim themselves, which is thought that it must be so with a position that the sons of God would not be human with that explaining nephilim. And such giant people appeared after the global flood as well.

I brought this thread back, and my points are still not addressed, with inadequate reasoning neglecting those things still continuing.

Bluelion said:
I can think of times when men lived past the 120 years most famous maybe Moses. But in every case those who lived past a 120 years were all men of God and walked closely with God. So i would suggest 120 years is for normal people who are not with God or walk that closely with Him. Those who God use and God has work for walk with Him and are so close to life they are allowed to live past 120 years.

This doesn't take into account that there is the indication that many in the generations after the flood lived far beyond 120 years, and it wasn't beyond 120 years for Moses himself. There is not any suggestion from scriptures that those people with longer lives were more godly, rather the contrary. As I pointed out, the giants then born are not clearly said to be sired by the sons of God, they are born in the time of that trouble.

Bluelion · Jan 22, 2016

FredVB said:
I brought this thread back, and my points are still not addressed, with inadequate reasoning neglecting those things still continuing.

This doesn't take into account that there is the indication that many in the generations after the flood lived far beyond 120 years, and it wasn't beyond 120 years for Moses himself. There is not any suggestion from scriptures that those people with longer lives were more godly, rather the contrary. As I pointed out, the giants then born are not clearly said to be sired by the sons of God, they are born in the time of that trouble.

Name one man who did not walk with God that lived past 120 years?

FredVB · Jan 24, 2016

Bluelion said:
Name one man who did not walk with God that lived past 120 years?

Bluelion · Jan 24, 2016

FredVB said:
Thank you for asking for this. Consider carefully what scriptures are saying, shown here.
Genesis 11:10-32
This is the history of the generations of Shem. Shem was one hundred years old and became the father of Arpachshad two years after the flood.
Shem lived five hundred years after he became the father of Arpachshad, and became the father of sons and daughters.
Arpachshad lived thirty-five years and became the father of Shelah.
Arpachshad lived four hundred three years after he became the father of Shelah, and became the father of sons and daughters.
Shelah lived thirty years, and became the father of Eber: and Shelah lived four hundred three years after he became the father of Eber, and became the father of sons and daughters.
Eber lived thirty-four years, and became the father of Peleg.
Eber lived four hundred thirty years after he became the father of Peleg, and became the father of sons and daughters.
Peleg lived thirty years, and became the father of Reu.
Peleg lived two hundred nine years after he became the father of Reu, and became the father of sons and daughters.
Reu lived thirty-two years, and became the father of Serug.
Reu lived two hundred seven years after he became the father of Serug, and became the father of sons and daughters.
Serug lived thirty years, and became the father of Nahor.
Serug lived two hundred years after he became the father of Nahor, and became the father of sons and daughters.
Nahor lived twenty-nine years, and became the father of Terah.
Nahor lived one hundred nineteen years after he became the father of Terah, and became the father of sons and daughters.
Terah lived seventy years, and became the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran.
Now this is the history of the generations of Terah. Terah became the father of Abram, Nahor, and Haran. Haran became the father of Lot.
Haran died before his father Terah in the land of his birth, in Ur of the Chaldees.
Abram and Nahor took wives. The name of Abram's wife was Sarai, and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran who was also the father of Iscah.
Sarai was barren. She had no child.
Terah took Abram his son, Lot the son of Haran, his son's son, and Sarai his daughter-in-law, his son Abram's wife. They went forth from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan. They came to Haran and lived there.
The days of Terah were two hundred five years.

Joshua 24:2 Joshua said to all the people, "Thus says Yahweh, the God of Israel, 'Your fathers lived of old time beyond the River, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nahor: and they served other gods' ".

Oh I gotcha you now. I have wonder the same thing but the answer I found is God limit the years by 120 right about the time of the flood from there one you see the years of man getting shorter until it is brought to 120 years. It did not happen in one day but took time to bring down the years, why God did it this way I suspect because He was repopulating the earth. That is the answer for me any way.

david rodriguez · Jan 25, 2016

Bluelion said:
The sons of God who slept with women. I believe they were angels. here is the verses.

NIV Gen 6
6 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those daysand also afterwardwhen the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have createdand with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the groundfor I regret that I have made them. 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

NLT Gen 6

Then the people began to multiply on the earth, and daughters were born to them. 2 The sons of God saw the beautiful women[a] and took any they wanted as their wives. 3 Then the Lord said, My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time, for they are only mortal flesh. In the future, their normal lifespan will be no more than 120 years.

4 In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times.

5 The Lord observed the extent of human wickedness on the earth, and he saw that everything they thought or imagined was consistently and totally evil. 6 So the Lord was sorry he had ever made them and put them on the earth. It broke his heart. 7 And the Lord said, I will wipe this human race I have created from the face of the earth. Yes, and I will destroy every living thingall the people, the large animals, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and even the birds of the sky. I am sorry I ever made them. 8 But Noah found favor with the Lord.

NKJV Gen 6

6 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My Spirit shall not strive[a] with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Now the NIV says human which is not in other translation.

I believe they were angels because first it says daughters of men then separate group Sons of God. Now some say these were men who found favor with the Lord that the righteous slept with unrighteous. But this does not explain why the men became great hero of Great strength, and were wicked. There is a another name give we have not heard nephilim. To me this points to a new race, I believe half angel have men which would explain there great strength, and them being giants. To me that explains a lot about this group nephilim.

What do you believe and why. Biblical evidence would be great, but how you interpret the text is good to.

There is no right answer, I have not made up my mind by I am leaning towards angels.

supposedly, didn't they disappear with the flood of Noah?

MWood · Jan 25, 2016

david rodriguez said:
supposedly, didn't they disappear with the flood of Noah?

No! There were giants in the land when Moses sent the men into Canaan spy on the land and people.

Job8 · Jan 25, 2016

PrettyboyAndy said:
Hey Blue, I would like to get into this again. Still not sure if they are angels or man.

You will not find that those who believed God and were deemed righteous in the OT were called "sons of God", but you will find that term used for angels both in Genesis and Job. "The angels which kept not their first estate" (mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude) and are now chained in Tartarus (translated "hell" in the KJV) were the same angels who corrupted mankind and had intercourse with human women. Thus we have the giants or the Nephilim mentioned in Genesis 6.

Job8 · Jan 25, 2016

staff edit

One can either take the Bible seriously or dismiss it as fantasy. Take your pick.

PrettyboyAndy · Jan 25, 2016

Job8 said:
You will not find that those who believed God and were deemed righteous in the OT were called "sons of God", but you will find that term used for angels both in Genesis and Job. "The angels which kept not their first estate" (mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude) and are now chained in Tartarus (translated "hell" in the KJV) were the same angels who corrupted mankind and had intercourse with human women. Thus we have the giants or the Nephilim mentioned in Genesis 6.

Thats exactly what I thought!

Nephilim

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