Neighbor/Sojourner/Stranger/Immigrant

[Maine Progressive]

Opinion article in NYT Titled The Bible Tells Us To Love Immigrants, Rabbi Shai Held, Feb 22, 7AM ET. (I am embarrassed I cannot figure out how to actually tag the article here.) It is an excellent, well described exegesis of the Scripture regarding immigrants. One element of Scripture, often overlooked, is this one: Ex. 22:21 "You shall not wrong a stranger or oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. and Ex 23:9 " "You shall not oppress a stranger; you know the heart of a stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt." However much we rationalize ICE, it is in no way Biblical.

 

[Maine Progressive]

immigrants-religion-bible-politics.html I think this may work

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Opinion article in NYT Titled The Bible Tells Us To Love Immigrants, Rabbi Shai Held, Feb 22, 7AM ET. (I am embarrassed I cannot figure out how to actually tag the article here.) It is an excellent, well described exegesis of the Scripture regarding immigrants. One element of Scripture, often overlooked, is this one: Ex. 22:21 "You shall not wrong a stranger or oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. and Ex 23:9 " "You shall not oppress a stranger; you know the heart of a stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt." However much we rationalize ICE, it is in no way Biblical.

The scriptures mention nothing about Illegal Immigration. Key word ILLEGAL. Romans 13:1-7 rationalizes ICE and it is Biblical. It is possible to show the love of Christ to an immigrant while still opposed illegal immigration. Why is that so difficult for people to understand?

 

[Larniavc]

One element of Scripture, often overlooked,

The full list of those type of overlooked elements could fill a library of books.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

The full list of those type of overlooked elements could fill a library of books.

Do not forget how Israel acquired the land after leaving Egypt and what they did to surrounding nations who proved incompatible with Israel.

 

[Belk]

The scriptures mention nothing about Illegal Immigration. Key word ILLEGAL. Romans 13:1-7 rationalizes ICE and it is Biblical. It is possible to show the love of Christ to an immigrant while still opposed illegal immigration. Why is that so difficult for people to understand?

I think the dearth of seeing people being loving while also opposing illegal immigration is the sticking point. While it might be possible we do not see a whole lot of it going on.

 

[weary2025]

The Bible says many things that liberals dont obey. Why are they using the Bible to promote lawless immigration?

 

[FireDragon76]

The scriptures mention nothing about Illegal Immigration. Key word ILLEGAL. Romans 13:1-7 rationalizes ICE and it is Biblical. It is possible to show the love of Christ to an immigrant while still opposed illegal immigration. Why is that so difficult for people to understand?

That's appealing to a concept, the nation-state, that didn't even exist in biblical times in modern form. There were city states, kingdoms, and empire, but the idea of a nation as being bound together by a political order was quite foreign. It was quite normal in biblical times for people to migrate to other areas - national identity was more fluid.

 

[FireDragon76]

The Bible says many things that liberals dont obey. Why are they using the Bible to promote lawless immigration?

The rabbi is not a "liberal", he's a Jewish teacher of Torah/Law. Jews wrote the Bible, so I'd guess they'ld have some expertise in understanding it's meaning?

 

[weary2025]

The rabbi is not a "liberal", he's a Jewish teacher of Torah/Law. Jews wrote the Bible, so I'd guess they'ld have some expertise in understanding it's meaning?

We are the church not ancient Israel. The church is not a theocracy

 

[FireDragon76]

We are the church not ancient Israel. The church is not a theocracy

The rabbi is making a moral point, not a political one. If you despise and mistreat immigrants, you are not keeping Torah.

I don't know what your church believes, but the traditional Christian belief is that the Torah expresses God's will through moral law, when properly expounded.

 

[weary2025]

Why is it that liberals like using the Bible to promote their politics but when it goes against their politics they say we have separation of church and state? While we are building a Godly nation let's outlaw homosexuality. Let's not be hypocritical.

 

[weary2025]

The rabbi is making a moral point, not a political one. If you despise and mistreat immigrants, you are not keeping Torah.

Enforcing the law isn't mistreatment. Its biblical

 

[FireDragon76]

Enforcing the law isn't mistreatment. Its biblical

That's ridiculous logic. By that logic, there was nothing immoral about anything Stalin or Hitler did, either.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

That's appealing to a concept, the nation-state, that didn't even exist in biblical times in modern form. There were city states, kingdoms, and empire, but the idea of a nation as being bound together by a political order was quite foreign. It was quite normal in biblical times for people to migrate to other areas - national identity was more fluid.

That is great. However, unless you are suggesting that the United States returns to a borderless group of city states and dissolving their national sovereignty, then I am not sure were you are going with this. Perhaps the most fair thing to do is to apply the same immigration standards to the illegal immigrant as the country of origin. For example, if they illegally came here from Mexico, they should be treated just like a US citizen would be treated if they illegally immigrated into Mexico.

 

[weary2025]

That's ridiculous logic. By that logic, there was nothing immoral about anything Stalin or Hitler did, either.

What's ridiculous is accusing a huge majority of the church as being racist or mistreating people simply because they want to enforce the same law that every nation has.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

That's ridiculous logic. By that logic, there was nothing immoral about anything Stalin or Hitler did, either.

So you consider Romans 13:1-7 to be ridiculous. Noted. Sure, there are passages in which Apostles violated laws due to their obedience (Acts 5:27-29), and they were praised by God for it. But there is nowhere in scripture in which anyone violated the laws of the land and did not receive consequences. Afterall, even Daniel was thrown into the lion's den.

 

[FireDragon76]

That is great. However, unless you are suggesting that the United States returns to a borderless group of city states and dissolving their national sovereignty, then I am not sure were you are going with this. Perhaps the most fair thing to do is to apply the same immigration standards to the illegal immigrant as the country of origin. For example, if they illegally came here from Mexico, they should be treated just like a US citizen would be treated if they illegally immigrated into Mexico.

That's a false dichotomy. Immigration laws should be enforced in a realistic and humane manner. Using cruelty and fear as a method to compel political outcomes (the emmigration of "non-heritage Americans" and undocumented immigrants) is inherently immoral, a violation of human dignity, and a grave matter.

 

[FireDragon76]

So you consider Romans 13:1-7 to be ridiculous. Noted. Sure, there are passages in which Apostles violated laws due to their obedience (Acts 5:27-29), and they were praised by God for it. But there is nowhere in scripture in which anyone violated the laws of the land and did not receive consequences. Afterall, even Daniel was thrown into the lion's den.

Are you suggesting Daniel's oppressors were righteous in their judgements?

 

[weary2025]

That's a false dichotomy. Immigration laws should be enforced in a realistic and humane manner. Using cruelty and fear as a method to compel political outcomes (the emmigration of "non-heritage Americans" and undocumented immigrants) is inherently immoral, a violation of human dignity, and a grave matter.

Why are we criticizing America for having a law that every nation enforces? I read online that the Vatican city has some of the strictest immigration laws in the world