Needing that "super-devil".

[mkgal1]

Apostolic included this quote in the favorite quote thread.

"I want you to really get this. Some of you really need a 'Super-Devil' in your life. You do. Otherwise there would be no one on whom to blame your problems. But the Bible doesn't say that. It says 'these are the works of the flesh ', not the works of the devil" - Rev. Lee Stoneking.

May we discuss this?

 

[LinkH]

The Bible warns about the devil, the flesh, and the world. We can't blame everything on the devil. If someone falls into temptation, he makes a decision, even if the devil is tempting him. We also know that the world (age) is under the power of the evil one.

 

[Niffer]

Lemme give you a clear picture here:

Vatican scientists have announced that the devil is not the greatest threat to salvation due to the recent discovery of the Super Devil. The Super Devil is at least six inches taller than the Devil, rides a flying motorcycle, and carries a jar of marmalade which is believed to cause adultery.

- Niff

 

[JRSut1000]

That's true, too often the devil is blamed for mans problems when really a lot of time its ourselves that lead ourselves away. We are led away by our own desires and temptations, its not that the devil directly tried to put something in our path all the time to trip us up. And when it comes to bad things that happen, sometimes its just a consequence of our own actions or the actions of others. And what really gets me is when preachers over-use the idea that the devil is trying to stop a move of God or something, especially when it comes to talking about giving...

There is a real devil, but we give him a lot more credit and glory than we should, just something to think about.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Still been thinking a lot about all of this, especially since I have been a part of a ministry at our church called 'Freedom Session'. Essentially it is a Christian 12-Step ministry, but the teaching is beginning to focus a lot on deliverance ministry things that I am somewhat familiar with (i.e. Neil Anderson and the like...) and coming against the Devil and 'demonic attacks' on our home, behavior, attitudes, and what-not. My problem with all of this is that I keep coming back to the teaching that I took the quote from. Rev. Stoneking based it off of Galatians 5: 16-21 (he uses the KJV, this is the ESV):

"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God".

And this from a strict Pentecostal preacher who has taught extensively on the supernatural, angels, demonic influence, etc. But his first response is that when there is trouble in the life of the believer, the reaction should be to look for what area of the person's life they may be engaged in sin, and to address that first. As he says in the same message "You can rout out the Devil in seconds at the Name of Jesus", hence we need to be diligent about our walk with Christ first before assigning blame elsewhere.

 

[dysert]

Still been thinking a lot about all of this, especially since I have been a part of a ministry at our church called 'Freedom Session'. Essentially it is a Christian 12-Step ministry, but the teaching is beginning to focus a lot on deliverance ministry things that I am somewhat familiar with (i.e. Neil Anderson and the like...) and coming against the Devil and 'demonic attacks' on our home, behavior, attitudes, and what-not. My problem with all of this is that I keep coming back to the teaching that I took the quote from. Rev. Stoneking based it off of Galatians 5: 16-21 (he uses the KJV, this is the ESV):

"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God".

And this from a strict Pentecostal preacher who has taught extensively on the supernatural, angels, demonic influence, etc. But his first response is that when there is trouble in the life of the believer, the reaction should be to look for what area of the person's life they may be engaged in sin, and to address that first. As he says in the same message "You can rout out the Devil in seconds at the Name of Jesus", hence we need to be diligent about our walk with Christ first before assigning blame elsewhere.

I'm in partial agreement with the Pentecostal preacher inasmuch as we often are the cause of our own sin-related problems (instead of the devil). James 1:13-14 says, "Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed."

I disagree, though, when he says "You can rout out the Devil in seconds at the Name of Jesus". There is a particular type of demon that "does not go out except by prayer and fasting" (Matt. 17:21). And we all know what happened to the Seven Sons of Sceva.

 

[JRSut1000]

That's true, unfortunately the name of Jesus has become almost an abracadabra in many circles. It's not by just saying a name, its my acknowledging the authority that He has, but if sin is in our lives then thats the master we are serving so we need to be careful. It's like using His name in communion/Passover, we cant just do it flippantly. We have to check our own lives before we partake.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

That's true, unfortunately the name of Jesus has become almost an abracadabra in many circles. It's not by just saying a name, its my acknowledging the authority that He has, but if sin is in our lives then thats the master we are serving so we need to be careful. It's like using His name in communion/Passover, we cant just do it flippantly. We have to check our own lives before we partake.

Thanks for clarifying this. In the original message, (and in many of Rev. Stoneking's messages) he is careful not to tread on this ground. He is quite aware that some DO see the Name of Jesus as a liberty to use as they want, with horrific consequences when it is used improperly. It's not merely using the name, but recognizing the Authority behind it and that was his point when he said that.

And it is absolutely true that when there is sin in our lives, that is the master we are serving, not some demonic influence so much. I have just been thinking a lot about this lately as the ministry I am serving in at church seems to be taking the opposite tack-that false beliefs and sinful behavior are 'tricks of the devil' or some demonic influence, taking the spotlight off of the sin itself so much. My wife, who has been a part of facilitating the program in the past, told me that the guy who facilitates the large group DVD teaching has revamped it to make the 'Spiritual Warfare' more of an emphasis. That's all well and fine if there is a legitimate demonic influence in a person's life, but the over-emphasis just seems to take away from a deep searching of our own behavior and repentance from sin.

 

[mkgal1]

Thanks for clarifying this. In the original message, (and in many of Rev. Stoneking's messages) he is careful not to tread on this ground. He is quite aware that some DO see the Name of Jesus as a liberty to use as they want, with horrific consequences when it is used improperly. It's not merely using the name, but recognizing the Authority behind it and that was his point when he said that.

And it is absolutely true that when there is sin in our lives, that is the master we are serving, not some demonic influence so much. I have just been thinking a lot about this lately as the ministry I am serving in at church seems to be taking the opposite tack-that false beliefs and sinful behavior are 'tricks of the devil' or some demonic influence, taking the spotlight off of the sin itself so much. My wife, who has been a part of facilitating the program in the past, told me that the guy who facilitates the large group DVD teaching has revamped it to make the 'Spiritual Warfare' more of an emphasis. That's all well and fine if there is a legitimate demonic influence in a person's life, but the over-emphasis just seems to take away from a deep searching of our own behavior and repentance from sin.

As far as routing out demons/the devil in seconds in the Name of Jesus....and how that has to do with our *own* evil desires....and needing to recognize His authority......I would even add that it *also* has to do with whether or not we truly *want* to break free from the bondage of (or avoid) sin or not. Just like James 1 says:

"when troubles come your way, consider it an opportunity for great joy. For you know that when your faith is tested, your endurance has a chance to grow. So let it grow, for when your endurance is fully developed, you will be perfect and complete, needing nothing. If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking.But when you ask him, be sure that your faith is in God alone. Do not waver, for a person with divided loyalty is as unsettled as a wave of the sea that is blown and tossed by the wind."

IOW....there may be times that we do want the sin AND God....and believe He is okay with that----and that it doesn't harm us or distance us from Him. I believe that an important aspect of gaining true freedom is to truly *want* to seek Him in truth....knowing His ways really *are* best for us.

 

[mkgal1]

My wife, who has been a part of facilitating the program in the past, told me that the guy who facilitates the large group DVD teaching has revamped it to make the 'Spiritual Warfare' more of an emphasis. That's all well and fine if there is a legitimate demonic influence in a person's life, but the over-emphasis just seems to take away from a deep searching of our own behavior and repentance from sin.

That's a really difficult balance......walking the line of too much emphasis on tactics of our enemy/not enough emphasis on the Holy Spirit that guides us and gives us power to recognize and defeat sin.........and the alternative....not enough emphasis on our enemies tactics, and that sincerity and zeal for God is enough (leaving out how important knowing Him is).

We *are* told not to be ignorant of his schemes (2nd Corinthians 2:11)....but, I think that also must include the fact that we are fighting *from* victory....not *for* victory (Chip Ingram gets the credit for that quote). IOW....the battle is already won.....we just need to make the choice to go with the "winning" team, instead of staying with the loser (our enemy).

I think almost each choice we face is a battle of choosing the side of good.....or the side of lies. Our enemy is subtle. Demonic influence isn't as obvious (and dark appearing) as most people think.

 

[SearchingStudent]

"I want you to really get this. Some of you really need a 'Super-Devil' in your life. You do. Otherwise there would be no one on whom to blame your problems. But the Bible doesn't say that. It says 'these are the works of the flesh ', not the works of the devil" - Rev. Lee Stoneking.

There comes a time when we all must accept responsibilities for our faults. Unfortunately that is something that most folks don't want to do. Its easier to blame anyone and anything else for our faults instead of admitting that we have a choice, we make the wrong choices and pay the price. "I can't help it" is the biggest crock of baloney out there!

 

[JRSut1000]

Lol SearchingStudent, I truly love how straightforward you are, its a breath of fresh air!

 

[SearchingStudent]

Lol SearchingStudent, I truly love how straightforward you are, its a breath of fresh air!

Thanks! I missed "talk nice" class at "girl school". And, they didn't offer that class as an elective in engineering school or "mom school". After a houseful of kids...I don't have enough brain cells left to reprogram myself!

 

[mkgal1]

ISTM that what our enemy succeeds the most at is deceiving us into worshiping another "jesus".....a counterfeit "jesus".......a "jesus" formed in the minds of mankind.

I think our best defense against that (because there *always* is an "out" or a defense for us----*never* are we defeated) is to know (for ourselves) who Jesus is.....what His nature is......what His character is.....so, that way (like gossip) when others say false things about Him, we will know that those things aren't true----as they are completely against His nature.

“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.~Matthew 10:16

Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won't be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth.~Ephesians 4:14

 

[mkgal1]

The apostle Paul said to Christ-followers:

But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. ~2nd Corinthians 11:3-4

To think that we are immune to being deceived.....would leave us open to just that.

Also.....I don't know if it would complicate things too much, but often "our problems" are others around us that are following a "different Jesus"....."a different spirit"......or "a different gospel".

 

[scrambled]

That's true, too often the devil is blamed for mans problems when really a lot of time its ourselves that lead ourselves away. We are led away by our own desires and temptations, its not that the devil directly tried to put something in our path all the time to trip us up. And when it comes to bad things that happen, sometimes its just a consequence of our own actions or the actions of others. And what really gets me is when preachers over-use the idea that the devil is trying to stop a move of God or something, especially when it comes to talking about giving...

There is a real devil, but we give him a lot more credit and glory than we should, just something to think about.

You're basically saying, people abdicate responsibility for their sin and use the devil as an excuse. The tendency to blame the enemy when we fall to temptation is a temptation in and of itself.
While we live in the enemy's world, in fallen flesh, we fight a battle against those desires-- the tricks of sin. Fail to take the armor of God, you fall. It's our failure to fight the good fight, failure to strive to keep God at the center of our lives. This failure is another temptation of the enemy. The enemy deserves no glory, and he should not be a scapegoat when we fail... but we are all sinners; you are one bad decision away from being one of the people you criticize.