Needing justification for morality

[juvenissun]

Have feeling in your gut that says killing puppies and stealing from people is wrong? Your gut ain't lying to you.

Puppies are delicacies in some part of the world.

 

[Mediate]

So, all these come to one idea: empty (&#31354, right? (I guess you may say: empty IS, in fact, solid).

I have problem with that too, big problem.

Space is empty, in fact space has no 空. But yet there is still space, occupied by no matter, only its own existence.

 

[juvenissun]

If a person understands themselves and realizes that non-compassionate actions only bring suffering, then a person realizes the benefit of compassion, both for themselves and for others.

There need be no other justification.

'Consider others as yourself'.

Good idea. However, we do not know how to do that properly.
Problems still exist.

 

[Mediate]

Good idea. However, we do not know how to do that properly.
Problems still exist.

We is not I. I is not you. You is not me. You is not we. We is not You.

Me is not we.

Individual introspection is needed to realize the impermanence of the objective individual reality.

In otherwords, without self-insight, 'I' will never learn how to do that properly, nevermind 'we' or 'they'.

 

[juvenissun]

Space is empty, in fact space has no 空. But yet there is still space, occupied by no matter, only its own existence.

If you empty yourself (the goal), then what is "your value"? Does your life have a value, by any standard, or no standard? Why do you live? Why don't you kill yourself and get a "relief"?

 

[juvenissun]

We is not I. I is not you. You is not me. You is not we. We is not You.

Me is not we.

Individual introspection is needed to realize the impermanence of the objective individual reality.

In otherwords, without self-insight, 'I' will never learn how to do that properly, nevermind 'we' or 'they'.

I don't care who you are. But I don't want you do to me like you do to yourself. It is not you, or they or what. It is ME.

DON'T do what you DON'T like to others. But not
DO what you like to others.

 

[Mediate]

If you empty yourself (the goal), then what is "your value"? Does your life have a value, by any standard, or no standard? Why do you live? Why don't you kill yourself and get a "relief"?

If emptiness were the same as non existence, no thing could be empty, because emptiness would be non existent, yet here we are, and emptiness exists.

The same way, if something were nothing, it could not be something.

You are asking what value emptiness has. What even is 'value'?

Value is an individual projection, or belief, of an object's inherent worth. The true non existence here is the attachment of value to something through the perception of individual consciousness. The projection of value is a made up mental fabrication.

Should I count up the value of empty space?

What benefit does it bring me?

Emptiness is not the same as non-existence, nor is emptiness the same as nothingness. For something to be nothing, it cannot possibly be empty. Emptiness is contained, or seen, or visualized. The emptiness of space is indeed emptiness, but space is not nothing, or more aplty, space is not non-existent. Space exists.

Recognition of this conscious conceptualization, whereby people create illusions for themselves, is what 'emptiness' in Buddhism means. Every external thing is perceived by an individual, and the beliefs arising and being bolstered by that perception, is the arising of self.

Self leads to suffering.

If I deconstruct that self in a situation, like here, then there is no attachment, no offence, no clinging, no suffering.

If you yourself ascribe worth to a human life based on an individual's beliefs, then you do so on the basis that you make up a concept of worth, and subsequently believe that you are more worthy than anyone else is - as your beliefs are opposed in your mind against their beliefs - or just as worthy as them, or not as worthy as them.

I myself decide to do none of the three, because each begins with ascribing a made up concept of worth to a person based on their beliefs.

Recognizing the 'made up' is recognizing its emptiness.

A better word might be that making up a system of worth like this is 'pointless'. When I recognize the pointless facets of existence, what is left are the truths and realities.

Ascribing worth to a person based on belief is a pointless fabrication. Why do it, then?

That's what 'emptiness' is about.

 

[Dave Ellis]

That is what I said. A definition does not have to be true. Take it as an assumption. You do not have to decided until you see the arguments followed the definition. You do not need to reject God, until you hear what (the assumed) God says to you.

Definitions by themselves have no truth value.

That's not to say that what you are defining may be true or not, but the simple act of defining something says nothing at all about if that thing is real.

That is why it's not an assumption. An assumption is a belief, it's an acceptance that a proposal is true.

 

[Dave Ellis]

No no. It is an assumption.

Can you tell an assumption from a belief? One is logic and the other one is beyond logic.

An assumption is a belief.

Secondly, there is no thing as "beyond logic".

 

[juvenissun]

If emptiness were the same as non existence, no thing could be empty, because emptiness would be non existent, yet here we are, and emptiness exists.

The same way, if something were nothing, it could not be something.

You are asking what value emptiness has. What even is 'value'?

Value is an individual projection, or belief, of an object's inherent worth. The true non existence here is the attachment of value to something through the perception of individual consciousness. The projection of value is a made up mental fabrication.

Should I count up the value of empty space?

What benefit does it bring me?

Emptiness is not the same as non-existence, nor is emptiness the same as nothingness. For something to be nothing, it cannot possibly be empty. Emptiness is contained, or seen, or visualized. The emptiness of space is indeed emptiness, but space is not nothing, or more aplty, space is not non-existent. Space exists.

Recognition of this conscious conceptualization, whereby people create illusions for themselves, is what 'emptiness' in Buddhism means. Every external thing is perceived by an individual, and the beliefs arising and being bolstered by that perception, is the arising of self.

Self leads to suffering.

If I deconstruct that self in a situation, like here, then there is no attachment, no offence, no clinging, no suffering.

If you yourself ascribe worth to a human life based on an individual's beliefs, then you do so on the basis that you make up a concept of worth, and subsequently believe that you are more worthy than anyone else is - as your beliefs are opposed in your mind against their beliefs - or just as worthy as them, or not as worthy as them.

I myself decide to do none of the three, because each begins with ascribing a made up concept of worth to a person based on their beliefs.

Recognizing the 'made up' is recognizing its emptiness.

A better word might be that making up a system of worth like this is 'pointless'. When I recognize the pointless facets of existence, what is left are the truths and realities.

Ascribing worth to a person based on belief is a pointless fabrication. Why do it, then?

That's what 'emptiness' is about.

You eat, sleep, wok every day. Why do you do that?
To get a peaceful mind (no emotions), and to achieve the emptiness.
But, you know you almost have no chance to get to that status in your life.
Why are you here on the earth? Answer me, WHY? Why do you still want to maintain your life?

 

[Mediate]

You eat, sleep, wok every day. Why do you do that?
To get a peaceful mind (no emotions), and to achieve the emptiness.
But, you know you almost have no chance to get to that status in your life.
Why are you here on the earth? Answer me, WHY? Why do you still want to maintain your life?

Why not?

 

[ThinkForYourself]

I really do not mind to be in that situation, as long as my master treats me as a human. In a sense, there ARE some advantages of being such a slave. As a slave, you work for your living just like anyone else. Besides, you have a master to protect you. And you also have a person (your master) to take care of. To be a slave is much better than just being a 24-hr-7-day-week employee.

Besides, who said a slave has to do laborious work? I can even write some computer codes for my master.

Slavery is a very good system.

Holy smokes! This could work out!

I am willing to take you on as a slave. From my end, I promise to treat you in strict accordance with what the Christian bible teaches about the treatment of slaves. For instance, I promise not to beat you so badly that you die in one or two days. You will live at least one week after any beating!

Get your affairs in order, and then we can make arrangements for you to start your slavery.

BTW, do you have a wife and children? If so, I expect they will be joining you as my slaves. Is your wife a babe? I'm pretty sure the bible says I'm allowed to sleep with her whenever I want! If you have a daughter, the bible gives me permission to sleep with her too!

What a great system, I can see why you like it so much.

 

[theophilus777]

I promise to treat you in strict accordance with what the Christian bible teaches about the treatment of slaves.

You have no idea what Christianity teaches on the subject. None.

 

[Mediate]

Holy smokes! This could work out!

I am willing to take you on as a slave. From my end, I promise to treat you in strict accordance with what the Christian bible teaches about the treatment of slaves. For instance, I promise not to beat you so badly that you die in one or two days. You will live at least one week after any beating!

Get your affairs in order, and then we can make arrangements for you to start your slavery.

BTW, do you have a wife and children? If so, I expect they will be joining you as my slaves. Is your wife a babe? I'm pretty sure the bible says I'm allowed to sleep with her whenever I want! If you have a daughter, the bible gives me permission to sleep with her too!

What a great system, I can see why you like it so much.

Are you interested in co-ownership?

I shouldn't joke. If his wife is a babe I will have to toss a coin with you.

 

[quatona]

That is what I said. A definition does not have to be true.

A definition is a semantic process. It isn´t about things or facts.

Take it as an assumption.

Well, it isn´t. It´s clarification what you mean when using a word.

 

[Dave Ellis]

You have no idea what Christianity teaches on the subject. None.

Actually, everything he's said is allowed in your scriptures.

 

[juvenissun]

A definition is a semantic process. It isn´t about things or facts.

Well, it isn´t. It´s clarification what you mean when using a word.

A definition could be wrong.

 

[juvenissun]

Holy smokes! This could work out!

I am willing to take you on as a slave. From my end, I promise to treat you in strict accordance with what the Christian bible teaches about the treatment of slaves. For instance, I promise not to beat you so badly that you die in one or two days. You will live at least one week after any beating!

Get your affairs in order, and then we can make arrangements for you to start your slavery.

BTW, do you have a wife and children? If so, I expect they will be joining you as my slaves. Is your wife a babe? I'm pretty sure the bible says I'm allowed to sleep with her whenever I want! If you have a daughter, the bible gives me permission to sleep with her too!

What a great system, I can see why you like it so much.

Where does the Bible say that?

It is the people like YOU who destroyed this nice system.

 

[juvenissun]

Why not?

Because there is an alternative. In which you DO can say something meaningful about the question WHY do you life.

You, have no answer. You do not know why do you live.
I, have answer. And I do know why do I live.

That is why I ask.

Would you care to answer me the question now? Why do you live?

 

[super animator]

Actually, everything he's said is allowed in your scriptures.

Correction, everything he's said is allowed according to his interpretation of the scriptures.
This kind of interpretation that I had seen is (thankfully) rare from my experience with other kinds of Christians.
I won't group him with the other Christians, as I consider that to be insulting to them.