Christians, please list ways in which you feel the church can improve or renew its dedication to Christ. Testimonials and examples encouraged.
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Needed: your opinion
- Thread starter TheOriginalWhitehorse
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KleinerApfel
When I awake I am still with You
iktca said:
What an excellent idea! I don't know if anyone dare try it - we don't like to get too real sometimes do we? Might suggest it to my home group sometime.
To the OP - the one thing that would make the most difference is unity
Jesus prayed we'd have it because He knows the power of it, but we haven't managed to attain it yet.
God bless, Susana
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WeakButHopeful
Senior Member
I like iktca's idea a lot.
I think the lyrics to the song "If We Are the Body" by Casting Crowns sum up my feelings, which is along the lines of helmikoarina's reply.
I think an appropriate scripture would be Matthew 25:14-30, the parable of the talents. I believe we as members of the body must deliver a return on the investment...a very costly investment...that purchased our freedom. Do we act to make the body of Christ more healthy BOTH by caring for its members but also showing the world how it's supposed to care for others (as in Luke 14:16-23)? I know I was amazed to hear a Christian say once that their pet idea for solving poverty would work because they only had to solve it for Christians.
And yes, unity is good (in that disunity dillutes efforts and presents a confusing image to non-Christians) but I think unity is best achieved by getting out there and doing God's work, being His body, and not worrying about theological fine points...we are commanded to be active and visible in our gentleness and courage (Phil 4:4-7).
In closing I would like to stress that I feel strongly about the above not because it is how I run my life, but rather because it is how I feel I *should* run my life, and because I feel it is the essence of how the church can be far more successful in its mission. It is in answering questions like this that the Spirit convicts me of the many errors I make each day. I can only pray and strive to be better tomorrow.
God bless.
I think the lyrics to the song "If We Are the Body" by Casting Crowns sum up my feelings, which is along the lines of helmikoarina's reply.
I think an appropriate scripture would be Matthew 25:14-30, the parable of the talents. I believe we as members of the body must deliver a return on the investment...a very costly investment...that purchased our freedom. Do we act to make the body of Christ more healthy BOTH by caring for its members but also showing the world how it's supposed to care for others (as in Luke 14:16-23)? I know I was amazed to hear a Christian say once that their pet idea for solving poverty would work because they only had to solve it for Christians.
And yes, unity is good (in that disunity dillutes efforts and presents a confusing image to non-Christians) but I think unity is best achieved by getting out there and doing God's work, being His body, and not worrying about theological fine points...we are commanded to be active and visible in our gentleness and courage (Phil 4:4-7).
In closing I would like to stress that I feel strongly about the above not because it is how I run my life, but rather because it is how I feel I *should* run my life, and because I feel it is the essence of how the church can be far more successful in its mission. It is in answering questions like this that the Spirit convicts me of the many errors I make each day. I can only pray and strive to be better tomorrow.
God bless.
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whatseekye
Well-Known Member
What an excellent question. You know, I can sometimes be very critical of the church. I don't think I have ever tried to think of a remedy that could be imposed or made in to some sort of activity. I know what I want out of the church but I don't know how to get it. I want other people to have the same desires I have, which is for:
- if I do wrong or someone else does wrong, trust enough to go to the person and say you're sorry. I have done this when I did wrong, but the other person also did something wrong. I didn't bring up what they did wrong but just apologized about what I did wrong. and no apology was extended to me in return. we still are friendly but there's no real friendship there. no trust. something critical failed to happen. So I'm saying we need people to be more vulnerable to each other, and yet also more courageous. There are way too many safe and hidden people at church.
- don't be so worried about what other people think of you so that you put on your Sunday best attitude and act fake. Be yourself, and maybe if you have bad behavior due to lack of sanctification, there will be grace on that...and people actually care about you and pray about you and you probably come to conviction on your own. If it's serious, a friend at church cares enough to gently rebuke you in private. People really know each other.
- lots of people have more of an "open door" policy on their homes, so you see people gathering together, calling each other, getting together, helping each other, etc.
-home fellowship is needed. it's not necessarilly the same thing as the "open doors" mentioned above. we need home fellowships with good leadership that keeps things going in a constructive direction but doesn't discourage people from participation.
- quality bible studies, as itka described. Real fellowship that is really spiritual and not just chit chat with cookies and coffee
- people trusting to really pray out of their hearts and worship from the heart...together
- something meaningful that connects the local church to the community. I have no idea what. maybe many different things like visiting nursing homes, visiting shut-ins, helping disabled people get to church, helping elderly get to church, having some sort of activity out in public, like a festival or something?
- don't gossip or lie. you'd think this goes without saying but unfortunately, I have seen it happen at church.
- stronger preaching is called for. sometimes I think that people just don't get it. The pastor will say something that contains a convicting message, but he says it so carefully that I really think it goes over many people's heads.
- don't neglect the prayer. encourage vibrant intercessionary prayer. don't sidetrack your intercessors by constantly asking them to pray for different things...without making a strong emphasis that the prayer is for people to get right with God #1. Everything comes from that, but if you don't have that, you don't have anything.
- if I do wrong or someone else does wrong, trust enough to go to the person and say you're sorry. I have done this when I did wrong, but the other person also did something wrong. I didn't bring up what they did wrong but just apologized about what I did wrong. and no apology was extended to me in return. we still are friendly but there's no real friendship there. no trust. something critical failed to happen. So I'm saying we need people to be more vulnerable to each other, and yet also more courageous. There are way too many safe and hidden people at church.
- don't be so worried about what other people think of you so that you put on your Sunday best attitude and act fake. Be yourself, and maybe if you have bad behavior due to lack of sanctification, there will be grace on that...and people actually care about you and pray about you and you probably come to conviction on your own. If it's serious, a friend at church cares enough to gently rebuke you in private. People really know each other.
- lots of people have more of an "open door" policy on their homes, so you see people gathering together, calling each other, getting together, helping each other, etc.
-home fellowship is needed. it's not necessarilly the same thing as the "open doors" mentioned above. we need home fellowships with good leadership that keeps things going in a constructive direction but doesn't discourage people from participation.
- quality bible studies, as itka described. Real fellowship that is really spiritual and not just chit chat with cookies and coffee
- people trusting to really pray out of their hearts and worship from the heart...together
- something meaningful that connects the local church to the community. I have no idea what. maybe many different things like visiting nursing homes, visiting shut-ins, helping disabled people get to church, helping elderly get to church, having some sort of activity out in public, like a festival or something?
- don't gossip or lie. you'd think this goes without saying but unfortunately, I have seen it happen at church.
- stronger preaching is called for. sometimes I think that people just don't get it. The pastor will say something that contains a convicting message, but he says it so carefully that I really think it goes over many people's heads.
- don't neglect the prayer. encourage vibrant intercessionary prayer. don't sidetrack your intercessors by constantly asking them to pray for different things...without making a strong emphasis that the prayer is for people to get right with God #1. Everything comes from that, but if you don't have that, you don't have anything.
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whatseekye
Well-Known Member
Brilliant how you said it all in just 7 words! I agree 100%. We need to go back again and again to the simple unadulterated message of the gospel.helmikaarina said:
For he who is least among you all--he is the greatest.
-- Luke 9:48
Who is Greatest?
33They came to Capernaum. When he was in the house, he asked them, "What were you arguing about on the road?" 34But they kept quiet because on the way they had argued about who was the greatest.
35Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all."
36He took a little child and had him stand among them. Taking him in his arms, he said to them, 37"Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me." -- Mark 9:33-37
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Agreed, and you people have really good ideas. I'm looking to design a set of training programs for churches, and I want to include the problems that most tend to effect our first call to love: those that neglect the needs of the congregants, offend believers, chase away seekers, and destroy the proper sense of unity, both within the church and amongst other faithful congregations.
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WeakButHopeful
Senior Member
Follow-up to my previous reply to your excellent question:
#1- I think Rick Warren's book "The Purpose Driven Life" has some good points about the proper role of the church and what makes a good church (just happened to be reading that last night)
#2- I think C.S.Lewis "The Screwtape Letters" shows (using that classic analogy of his) the ways that some churches can be ineffective while trying not to be.
I also missed in my original reply your specific request for testimonials and examples, and so:
#1- I can think of times when, sharing a deep spiritual problem with another church member, at one point they reached out and hugged me and I felt at that moment that I was being hugged not by that person but by Jesus himself...it's hard to explain but the feeling was overpowering.
#2- Another time I had showed up after work at church on a rainy night to help prepare for an upcoming Easter service. I discovered I had a flat tire and I went in to the church to ask if anyone had any better tools for changing a flat or perhaps an air pump than I happened to have in my car at the time. There were about 8 or 10 people there including the pastor. They all seemed disinterested in my problem so I went back to the church parking lot and did the best I could with the tools at hand in the rain. Weeks later one of those people came to me and said they had felt very bad about that and wanted to apologize. I told him I appreciated very much him coming to me and saying that.
#3- I remember a couple times watching televised church services where I felt the minister was speaking directly to me and my problems at the time, though the topic of the sermon was an Old Testament lesson.
My point in the above three examples is that Jesus can be present to others through His church only by direct action. That action does not need to be major, nor does it need to be perfect, nor does it need to be in person, but it needs to be action. What's the old saying? In the West we consider it a miracle if God does what man asks, in the East they consider it a miracle if man does what God asks. I think we need more of the latter kinds of miracles in our churches.
I will now step down from my soap box.
May the Holy Spirit guide your efforts.
#1- I think Rick Warren's book "The Purpose Driven Life" has some good points about the proper role of the church and what makes a good church (just happened to be reading that last night)
#2- I think C.S.Lewis "The Screwtape Letters" shows (using that classic analogy of his) the ways that some churches can be ineffective while trying not to be.
I also missed in my original reply your specific request for testimonials and examples, and so:
#1- I can think of times when, sharing a deep spiritual problem with another church member, at one point they reached out and hugged me and I felt at that moment that I was being hugged not by that person but by Jesus himself...it's hard to explain but the feeling was overpowering.
#2- Another time I had showed up after work at church on a rainy night to help prepare for an upcoming Easter service. I discovered I had a flat tire and I went in to the church to ask if anyone had any better tools for changing a flat or perhaps an air pump than I happened to have in my car at the time. There were about 8 or 10 people there including the pastor. They all seemed disinterested in my problem so I went back to the church parking lot and did the best I could with the tools at hand in the rain. Weeks later one of those people came to me and said they had felt very bad about that and wanted to apologize. I told him I appreciated very much him coming to me and saying that.
#3- I remember a couple times watching televised church services where I felt the minister was speaking directly to me and my problems at the time, though the topic of the sermon was an Old Testament lesson.
My point in the above three examples is that Jesus can be present to others through His church only by direct action. That action does not need to be major, nor does it need to be perfect, nor does it need to be in person, but it needs to be action. What's the old saying? In the West we consider it a miracle if God does what man asks, in the East they consider it a miracle if man does what God asks. I think we need more of the latter kinds of miracles in our churches.
I will now step down from my soap box.
May the Holy Spirit guide your efforts.
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KleinerApfel
When I awake I am still with You
I agree you all have some important points.
I just thought of another one. My church has problems with communication, and I think that's an area many must struggle with.
If we are to get out into the world and do some good as a united body, we really need to improve the way we communicate.
Blessings, Susana
I just thought of another one. My church has problems with communication, and I think that's an area many must struggle with.
If we are to get out into the world and do some good as a united body, we really need to improve the way we communicate.
Blessings, Susana
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maholicke424
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i think that church, has become more about who donates what. Whoever donates the most money is listed in the register and everyone will see who helps the most. Also church has become more of a competition then an activity that comes from the heart. Worship and prayer are supposed to come from the heart, not from the mind. People go to church and pray and buy religious books simply so other people will see them, because they think that its quantitiy and not quality. I don't like it and often don't enjoy going to my church because of how this is. My father doesn't enjoy our church and has decided to drive quite out of his way to go to a different church he had been with since he was a child.
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