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Need support for a definiton of "son"

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Crosslight

Stacie Jaye
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Hey

Need some input here...

Paul uses the term "son" in the hebraic usage that means the father adopts his son when the son reaches a level of maturity and conditions are met.

Ie.. the father adopts what was his already what was his by procreation.

Not every child that he fathers automatically becomes his son.


Is this true?


His servant,
stacie
 

Yitzchak

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Crosslight said:
Hey

Need some input here...

Paul uses the term "son" in the hebraic usage that means the father adopts his son when the son reaches a level of maturity and conditions are met.

Ie.. the father adopts what was his already what was his by procreation.

Not every child that he fathers automatically becomes his son.


Is this true?


His servant,
stacie
I have never heard this. Do you know which scripture verse is being refered to and why paul is writing in hebrew and not in Greek? The New Testament was written in Greek but I also know there are a few exceptions to this where hebrew words such as "abba" are used or Jesus' words on the cross which were Aramaic ( a dialect of hebrew) " My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

My educated guess for a reference for this would be Galatians chapter 4, the first several verses.
 
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Stacie Jaye
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Thanks,

This is the second time I have heard this type of talk. The first time, and I do not remember where, was in some type of cultural study of the Romans and how when a Roman fathered a son from a woman, or serval women.. several sons... not all of them were imediately considered "sons and heirs" to his position and family.

The Roman would have to make a decree at a certain age that one of the children would now be recognized as his son, thus receiving sonship.... rights and priviledges.

This second time came from a lesson involving the culture of the Hebrews.. same type of senerio...

Which leds up to Jesus being told by our Father.. "today I have become Your Father.."
and "this is My Son in whom I am well pleased..."

Then.. leading up to... He became a son through obedience..


Just wanting some testing ... thank you

His servant
stacie
 
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Yitzchak

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My understanding of galatians 4 is that it is in the context of the law versus the new covenant. The meaning being that the old testament saints such as Moses were indeed true believers and children of God in that sense. However they were not entitled to be full heirs until after Christ came and brought in the new covenant. The Galatian church was having a problem with some teaching that believers had to be under the law. reading the whole context, about the law being our teacher to bring us to Christ and us being full heirs and grown up believers. this seems to me to be the main meaning of galatians 4.
As for the jewish traditions, I think a really good place to ask about that would be in the messianic forum. There are a lot of jewish believers who frequent that forum and may know more.
The blessing of the father upon Jesus at his baptism is a very interesting passage to me. I have always assoiated it with a "bar mitzvah" and also with the blessings that a father gives to his children.
 
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The Thadman

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Yitzchak said:
I have never heard this. Do you know which scripture verse is being refered to and why paul is writing in hebrew and not in Greek? The New Testament was written in Greek but I also know there are a few exceptions to this where hebrew words such as "abba" are used or Jesus' words on the cross which were Aramaic ( a dialect of hebrew) " My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

First, there is a LOT of evidence that Paul wrote in Aramaic, not in Hebrew.
http://www.AramaicNT.org . Among other things, he utilized Aramaic poetry, and distinctly Aramaic words have weedled their way into the Greek ("Abba," "Moran Atho").

Secondly, "Abba" would be Aramaic, as "Av" is the Hebrew cognate.

Thirdly, Hebrew is more of a dialect of Aramaic, as Aramaic covers a much broader history and set of dialects (Jewish, Palestinian, Chaldee, Syriac, Mandiac, Samaritan, Neo-Aramaic, etc.).

Fourthly, it's "My God, My God, for what (purpose) did you allow me?" The Greek mistranslated the Aramaic :)

Poosh ba-Shlomo,
 
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mejbaker

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Stacie, this is a clip from a recent study I have done on sonship, the entire study was too long to post here. If you are interested in the full study follow the link at the bottom of the page and then go to topical studies. It's titled the sons of God.

Adoption --

Rom:8:15: For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father.

A.) the meaning of adoption in the days of the ancient Roman Empire, meant more than to just be taken in. Referencing Barclays daily Bible study gives much depth of understanding to the ancient Roman adoption process, -----

" we must understand how serious and complicated a step Roman adoption was that we really under stand the depth of meaning in this passage. Roman adoption was always rendered more serious and more difficult by the Roman patria potestas. This was the father's power over his family; it was the power of absolute disposal and control, and in the early days was actually the power of life and death. In regard to his father, a Roman son never came of age. No matter how old he was, he was still under the patria potestas, in the absolute possession and under the absolute control, of his father. Obviously this made adoption into another family a very difficult and serious step. In adoption a person had to pass from one patria potestas to another.

There were two steps. The first was known as mancipatio, and was carried out by a symbolic sale, in which copper and scales were symbolically used. Three times the symbolism of sale was carried out. Twice the father symbolically sold his son, and twice he bought him back; but the third time he did not buy him back and thus the patria potestas was held to be broken. There followed a ceremony called vindicatio. The adopting father went to the praetor, one of the Roman magistrates, and presented a legal case for the transference of the person to be adopted into his patria potestas. When all this was completed, the adoption was complete. Clearly this was a serious and an impressive step.

But it is the consequences of adoption which are most significant for the picture that is in Paul's mind. There were four main ones. (i) The adopted person lost all rights in his old family and gained all the rights of a legitimate son in his new family. In the most binding legal way, he got a new father. (ii) It followed that he became heir to his new father's estate. Even if other sons were afterwards born, it did not affect his rights. He was inalienably co-heir with them. (iii) In law, the old life of the adopted person was completely wiped out; for instance, all debts were cancelled. He was regarded as a new person entering into a new life with which the past had nothing to do. (iv) In the eyes of the law he was absolutely the son of his new father. Roman history provides an outstanding case of how completely this was held to be true. The Emperor Claudius adopted Nero in order that he might succeed him on the throne; they were not in any sense blood relations. Claudius already had a daughter, Octavia.

To cement the alliance Nero wished to marry her. Nero and Octavia were in no sense blood relations; yet, in the eyes of the law, they were brother and sister; and before they could marry, the Roman senate had to pass special legislation.

That is what Paul is thinking of. He uses still another picture from Roman adoption. He says that God's spirit witnesses with our spirit that we really are his children. The adoption ceremony was carried out in the presence of seven witnesses. Now, suppose the adopting father died and there was some dispute about the right of the adopted son to inherit, one or more of the seven witnesses stepped forward and swore that the adoption was genuine. Thus the right of the adopted person was guaranteed and he entered into his inheritance. So, Paul is saying, it is the Holy Spirit himself who is the witness to our adoption into the family of God.

It was Paul's picture that when a man became a Christian he entered into the very family of God. He did nothing to deserve it; God, the great Father, in his amazing love and mercy, has taken the lost, helpless, poverty-stricken, debt-laden sinner and adopted him into his own family, so that the debts are cancelled and the glory inherited "

Amen to that!!

True Sonship. --

Galatians 4:1-7. Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!'' Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Barclay’s further illuminates this. -----



" In the ancient world the process of growing up was much more definite than it is with us.

(i) In the Jewish world, on the first Sabbath after a boy had passed his twelfth birthday, his father took him to the Synagogue, where he became A Son of the Law. The father thereupon uttered a benediction, "Blessed be thou, O God, who has taken from me the responsibility for this boy." The boy prayed a prayer in which he said, "O my God and God of my fathers! On this solemn and sacred day, which marks my passage from boyhood to manhood, I humbly raise my eyes unto thee, and declare with sincerity and truth, that henceforth I will keep thy commandments, and undertake and bear the responsibility of mine actions towards thee." There was a clear dividing line in the boy's life; almost overnight he became a man.

(ii) In Greece a boy was under his father's care from seven until he was eighteen. He then became what was called an ephebos, which may be translated "cadet," and for two years he was under the direction of the state. The Athenians were divided into ten phratriai, or clans. Before a lad became an ephebos, at a festival called the Apatouria, he was received into the clan; and at a ceremonial act his long hair was cut off and offered to the gods. Once again, growing up was quite a definite process.

(iii) Under Roman law the year at which a boy grew up was not definitely fixed, but it was always between the ages of fourteen and seventeen. At a sacred festival in the family called the Liberalia he took off the toga praetexta, which was a toga with a narrow purple band at the foot of it and put on the toga virilis, which was a plain toga which adults wore. He was then conducted by his friends and relations down to the forum and formally introduced to public life. It was essentially a religious ceremony. And once again there was a quite definite day on which the lad attained manhood. There was a Roman custom that on the day a boy or girl grew up, the boy offered his ball, and the girl her doll, to Apollo to show that they had put away childish things.

When a boy was an infant in the eyes of the law, he might be the owner of a vast property but he could take no legal decision; he was not in control of his own life; everything was done and directed for him; and, therefore, for all practical purposes he had no more freedom than if he were a slave; but when he became a man he entered into his full inheritance."

I hope this helps.
In Christ, Mark

The Olive Branch
 
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pmarquette

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the entire book of Galatians was to refute errors of the Judaizers
who taught christians must first become Jews , be circumcised,
observe the law of Moses and the interpretation of same by
Pharisees , Saducees , and scribes ....

Paul said foolish galatians who has bewitched you ; what
was given by grace you would perfect with the law ?
 
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