Need Some advice... How should this be approached?

[RevKidd]

First I want to say that this may not be the right forum. But browsing through here I thought that this might be the best place for this discussion.

Over the past 9 months or so my wife and I, along with several others have been noticing a change in the way people are being treated in regards to our music and other various aspects.

We have several people who love to sing. Some of which have excellent voices, and some that should let their singing be done in the shower, and some that are in between. Also about 9 months ago there was a change in our music ministry in regards to personel. We brought in someone to replace our previous P&W leader. This young man is young 21 at the time, but has incredible skills at the piano, trumpet and sax. Talent is amazing. And at first things were going quite well.

However, we have started to notice some changes in the way of favortism. And quite frankly, it's pretty obvious, almost to the point that it is blantant. Our music minister was brought in to do that, lead music. However, we were in need of a youth pastor, because are previous P&W leader did both duties. Since our praise and worship leader is young he naturally gravitates to some of the less mature teens and very young adults. However, some of us are feeling that he is now neglecting those that he might not be as close to.

Let me give an example. We have a list of special singers, people who sing solos, duets, trios and quartets. Naturally with all these singers, and so little time to accomodate everyone not everyone can sing once a month or once a quarter. However, we are seeing the same people every month or twice a month while other people are being completely left off for 6 months at a time. One of these people are not even a member of our church, yet for some who have dedicated time and have put so much effort in to the church they are completely forgotten about. For some people that is a huge confidence killer.

Here is another example. At our last music meeting we were looking at the schedule, and the ministry coordinator stated that the pastor requested that my wife and I sing for easter. My wife, Jamie, and I have sang for a very long time. And since we have been coming to the church the pastor has always asked that we sing a song titled "I've Just Seen Jesus" (Sandi Patti & Larnelle Harris). First I want to say that we have never asked to sing at any time in our church. We have always said that if someone wants us to sing they will ask us. We have always felt honored and blessed to be able to minister on Easter Morning in our service. Well at this meeting we were noted to sing at the request from our pastor. Well about a week ago, when we received the final schedule my wife and I weren't on the list. I told my wife and we both said, knowing how young, so and so is, he probably forgot to jot it down. However I made a note to call him. I did about 3 days later and asked him to verify that we were still singing. Well apparantly he said that they had a discussion with the pastor and didn't want to over load the service on sunday so they erased us from the schedule. On that schedule were a group that was not on the original list that was discussed. Apparantly they were added later. It just kind of hurts when no one bothers to call you and tell you that you are not going to sing and you have to call and find out yourself what is going on. Plus those that are singing are the people that seem to be finding themselves on the schedule all the time.

Another issue is that my wife, who has the greatest voice in the world, and I am not saying that because she is my wife. Anyone who can sing Sandi Patti old school like she does is fanstastic in my book. Well my wife has a group that she started called Jaiden (God has heard). When we started work on our easter program they asked another group to sing. Of course this group is made up of the same people who seem to keep finding themselves on the schedule all the time. My wifes mother asked the director who was standing next to our music minister director if Jaiden was going to be a part of it. They said absolutely nothing to her. I am not saying that my wifes group should sing and be the only ones, however, it would be nice if somone would at least extend an invitation to them or at least ask them.

My wife and I didn't know exactly how many people were beginning to feel like we are until somone said something one night after service when we went to eat.

So what should we do? I mean you don't want to come across as a cry baby, or as being envious, but in a way you are. Peoples feelings are getting hurt. Biblically you look at Christ who was rejected in his own country, should be sit back and just let it go. What should we do?

 

[LynneClomina]

#1. maybe the worship leader is dumb. but God set him there, correct?

#2. why are people hurt? becuase they want to sing? are they exalting themselves over the way God is leading the woship leader?

#3. if the worship leader is being led astray, how are we to respond to such leaders? we are to acknowledge that God is in control, and respect that person's role and authority in that area.

i sing, and i mean well, but i rarely sing in church - it's the regular woship teams that always are up there - i struggled with that for a long time. but really it was selfish of me, becuase God had other things for me to do. yes, God gifted me with this voice, but He will use it in His time.

numbers 12:1 Then Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married; for he had married an Ethiopian woman. [were they correct? yes, marrying the ethiopian woman was against the commandment of God. they were correct in that He had sinned, but....] 2 So they said, "Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us also?" And the Lord heard it. [yes, the Lord had spoken through them as well - notice they feel they should be recognised as Moses was, and they weren't, and how they were obviously bitter about it.] 3 (Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.)

4 Suddenly the Lord said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, "Come out, you three, to the tabernacle of meeting!" So the three came out. 5 Then the Lord came down in the pillar of cloud and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam. And they both went forward. 6 Then He said, "Hear now My words: "If there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream. 7 Not so with My servant Moses; He is faithful in all My house. 8 I speak with him face to face, Even plainly, and not in dark sayings; And he sees the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant Moses?" 9 So the anger of the Lord was aroused against them, and He departed. [miriam became leprous in judgement. notice her sin of murmering was judged, whereas moses' sin of marrying the leprous woman was not, at least not here. speaks loudly about murmering about those who the Lord places in authority. for all authority of man has been given them by God.]

hope this isnt a tough reply. you seemed open to hear genuine thoughts, so i genuinely shared what i felt about it. please feel free to take it or leave it. hope your church does well. be blessed.

Lynne

 

[RevKidd]

#1. maybe the worship leader is dumb. but God set him there, correct?

#2. why are people hurt? becuase they want to sing? are they exalting themselves over the way God is leading the woship leader?

#3. if the worship leader is being led astray, how are we to respond to such leaders? we are to acknowledge that God is in control, and respect that person's role and authority in that area.

i sing, and i mean well, but i rarely sing in church - it's the regular woship teams that always are up there - i struggled with that for a long time. but really it was selfish of me, becuase God had other things for me to do. yes, God gifted me with this voice, but He will use it in His time.

numbers 12:1 Then Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married; for he had married an Ethiopian woman. [were they correct? yes, marrying the ethiopian woman was against the commandment of God. they were correct in that He had sinned, but....] 2 So they said, "Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us also?" And the Lord heard it. [yes, the Lord had spoken through them as well - notice they feel they should be recognised as Moses was, and they weren't, and how they were obviously bitter about it.] 3 (Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.)

4 Suddenly the Lord said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, "Come out, you three, to the tabernacle of meeting!" So the three came out. 5 Then the Lord came down in the pillar of cloud and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam. And they both went forward. 6 Then He said, "Hear now My words: "If there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream. 7 Not so with My servant Moses; He is faithful in all My house. 8 I speak with him face to face, Even plainly, and not in dark sayings; And he sees the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant Moses?" 9 So the anger of the Lord was aroused against them, and He departed. [miriam became leprous in judgement. notice her sin of murmering was judged, whereas moses' sin of marrying the leprous woman was not, at least not here. speaks loudly about murmering about those who the Lord places in authority. for all authority of man has been given them by God.]

hope this isnt a tough reply. you seemed open to hear genuine thoughts, so i genuinely shared what i felt about it. please feel free to take it or leave it. hope your church does well. be blessed.

Lynne

Thanks for the reply Lynn. Every single one of your points have been considered by my wife and me. I will respond to you points.

1) Yes he is dumb & young, in the respect that he has horrible communication and people skills. That is part of the reason why some of us are feeling that something has to be said. Example. If he would have called us and said that we were off the schedule prior to receiving it in the mail and apologized for it, we would have felt much better about the situation. How long should one be allowed to continue in their misguided ways hurting feelings.

Also about a month and a half ago, his duties of music were split in half with our associate who is an excellent musician and P&W leader. Really no reason was given as to why, just that it happened. Being on the church council we voted to bring in this young gentleman to take care of music. Now I am concerned as to what is really going on...

2) Excellent point. And it's hard to know everyone's motivation. When you have as many people that want to sing as our church does there has to be a system. And right now that system seems to be determined not by an anointing, not by talent or ability to minister, rather if you are closer to him or not. My wife and I love to sing. However we have gone months without singing and that is fine. But when you see the same people all the time and you know that there are other people, not just yourselves, who would love to minister, and they are not being used and are hurting, what do you do?

3) Absolutely, but at what cost? There is a young lady who loves to sing. Has a pretty decent voice. She has been left of the schedule now twice for the last 2 quarters. She is sad, she is discouraged. Should we just let it go and tell her to grow up.

Our concern isn't soley on us. In fact my wife and I in a short time will be heading into our own full time ministry, so we have been preparing ourselves for seperation from our church. I just don't like to see people get hurt by the church.

Let me get slighted by my job and the world, but not from the church.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Bring out the crystal and follow...


Well, actually:

Bring it to his and/or the head of the church's attention.

 

[emdd]

A meeting of the leaders to discuss the responsibilities, each one, step by step. That is what many churchs do, until it is fixed.

 

[LynneClomina]

Thanks for the reply Lynn. Every single one of your points have been considered by my wife and me. I will respond to you points.

1) Yes he is dumb & young, in the respect that he has horrible communication and people skills. That is part of the reason why some of us are feeling that something has to be said. Example. If he would have called us and said that we were off the schedule prior to receiving it in the mail and apologized for it, we would have felt much better about the situation. How long should one be allowed to continue in their misguided ways hurting feelings.

who is he accountable to? his pastor? or the board/council? biblically speaking, it should be the pastor. in which case you would speak to the pastor and leave it in his hands, as he will answer to God about how he handles it. (and not anyone else).

Also about a month and a half ago, his duties of music were split in half with our associate who is an excellent musician and P&W leader. Really no reason was given as to why, just that it happened. Being on the church council we voted to bring in this young gentleman to take care of music. Now I am concerned as to what is really going on...

i can imagine! perhaps your pastor has dealt with this to some extent already?

2) Excellent point. And it's hard to know everyone's motivation. When you have as many people that want to sing as our church does there has to be a system. And right now that system seems to be determined not by an anointing, not by talent or ability to minister, rather if you are closer to him or not. My wife and I love to sing. However we have gone months without singing and that is fine. But when you see the same people all the time and you know that there are other people, not just yourselves, who would love to minister, and they are not being used and are hurting, what do you do?

God works all things according to the purpose of His will. there are no mistakes, if you know what i mean. God has "fixed" this situation - ie. you're in a fix..... there is a saying my pastor says: God will fix a fix to fix us, but if we go and fix the fix, He has to come along and fix another fix. translate: God will fix (arrange) and fix (situation, struggle) to fix (grow, heal) us, but if we go and fix (correct) the fix (God ordained situation), He has to come along and fix (arrange, set up) another fix (situation, struggle). can you wrap your mind around that one? oh, gee.... but i love it.

3) Absolutely, but at what cost? There is a young lady who loves to sing. Has a pretty decent voice. She has been left of the schedule now twice for the last 2 quarters. She is sad, she is discouraged. Should we just let it go and tell her to grow up.

no, minister to her, and help her come to terms with the situation. dont try to fix the situation, but assist her is growing through the situation.

Our concern isn't soley on us. In fact my wife and I in a short time will be heading into our own full time ministry, so we have been preparing ourselves for seperation from our church. I just don't like to see people get hurt by the church.

well, then this has been a great learning experience for you as "what not to do", eh? and you can decide - are you gonna get bitter on behalf of others being hurt? or are you going to see this as an opportunity to learn and to minister to others, and to trust in God????

Let me get slighted by my job and the world, but not from the church.

ah, yeah. the ouchie. what i've learned, is that we WILL get slighted by the church - not the church, but ppl in the church; full time ministers, part time ministers, lay ministers or non-ministers, offenses will happen. so what are we called to do? forgive. remember that God will be our vengeance. forget about ourselves, and minister to those who wound us. be a good example in godly behaviour to others who are less mature than you. refuse to become bitter. seek God. GROW. count it all joy that you are in a trial. worship. pray.

kind of my little maxim i'm trying to verbalize:

when i am righteous, the righteousness is of the Lord.
when i fall, the fault is mine.
when i have joy, the joy is of the Lord.
when i have a problem, the problem is within me.

or some such.

be blessed,
Lynne