Need help

[mikeg]

Hello fellow followers of the Lord Jesus Christ! I have come to this message board with a problem. For a long time I have shared my Christian values with my co-workers. Recently I have recived a rather alarming eMail.
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What would Jesus Do?

We admit that this is a perfectly fine question. And so, to find answers, we decided to go to the source and last week read through the four Gospels. This is what we found.

Would Jesus launch a “pre-emptive” war?

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Matt. 5:9)

Our “President” appears to be prepared to “kick some Iraqi ass.” What would Jesus do?

Ye have heard that it hath it said, thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you. (Matt. 5: 43-44)

While he was the Governor of Texas, George Bush signed 155 death warrants, and granted no pardons to condemned prisoners. What would Jesus do?

Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy. (Matt. 5:7)

Rev. Jerry Falwell, steadfast proponent of “the right to life,” also endorses capital punishment. What would Jesus do?

Ye have heard that it hath been said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth; but I say unto thee, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turned him the other also. (Matt. 5:38 39)

What might Jesus say about school prayer?

And when thou prayest, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward. But when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which seeth in secret . (Matt. 6.27)

And the separation of church and state?

Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s. (Matt. 22-21).

Did we remember to ask what Jesus had to say about war and peace”

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Matt. 5:9)

Our glorious free market economy is driven by the profit motive. What might Jesus say about the profit motive?

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal. ... For where you treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Matt. 6: 19, 21)

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (Matt. 6:24)

Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man’s life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth. (Luke 12:15).

With the help of a few well-placed friends, George Bush parlayed a nominal investment in the Texas Rangers into a $20 million fortune. When Dick Cheney left Halliburton, he was given a $34 million “retirement package.” What would Jesus do with these “winnings?”

If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. (Matt. 19:21)

Verily, I say unto you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. ... It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. (Matt. 19-23).

George Bush has denied access to his gubernatorial papers and his father’s presidential papers (in both cases, public documents). Dick Cheney refuses to disclose the contents and the persons involved in consultations regarding energy policy. What might Jesus say about this?

There is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops. (Luke 12:2-3)

What might Jesus do about poverty and welfare assistance?*

I was hungred and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in. Naked and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.... Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (Matt. 25:35-40).

Forty million American children live below the poverty level. What might Jesus say about this?

Whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned int the depth of the sea. (Matt. 18:6)

Furthermore, it is estimated that as a result of the economic sanctions, a half a million Iraqi children have died.

Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones...” (Matt. 18:10).

Rev. Falwell, Rev. Robertson and numerous “televangelists” claim to speak for Jesus, as they successfully solicit millions in donations. What might Jesus tell them?

Not everyone who sayeth unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 7:21).

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; inasmuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Matt. 24:24).

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (Matt. 7:15)

There appears to be something of a “disconnect” between the teachings of Jesus Christ (who, George Bush tells us, “changed my life”), and the behavior and policies of many self-confessed “Christians.” I believe that the word that describes such inconsistency might be “hypocrisy.” Jesus had a great deal to say about hypocrites.

Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites... This people honoureth me with their lips but their heart is far from me. (Mark 7:6)

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer; therefore ye shall receive thy greater damnation. (Matt. 23:14)

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy and faith, these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.*

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess....*

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites ... ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. (Matt. 23: 23-28).

And one last time, just in case you forgot: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Matt. 5:9)

Finally, the troubled Christian today might reply: “I do love Jesus, but really, ‘love my enemies?’ ‘Sell all that I have?’ Isn’t that asking too much?” To this, Jesus would reply:

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

As I read the four gospels, front to back, these are some of the passages that seemed especially relevant to our times and responsive to the question “What would Jesus do?” Alas, try as I might, I could find no guidance therein regarding abortion, homosexuality, pornography, gun control or the capital gains tax.

When faced with such hypocrisy as we seem to find amongst prominent “Christians” today, what did Jesus do?

Jesus wept. (John 12:35).
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I have double checked all of his sources from the bible and they are all 100% correct. How should I go about answering this and I was also wondering how we should deal with this as a community.

 

[hat lady]

You could start off my acknowledging that he has raised some interesting points that other people have also thought about.

Offer to get together over coffee and bring an older man/woman in the Lord that knows his/her scriptures that help answer these questions that he has.

Seems like God is working on him and he is opening up to you and you need to be lead by the spirit to show this person Jesus's love.

I would start with one question and talk about it. Dialogue with each other and agree to respect each other and let him see the Jesus in you. Then if that goes well, agree to meet again to discuss another point he made. Maybe even open it up to each of you bring a friend. And see how the Holy Spirit can move in this situation.

I will pray for you wisdom, discernment, and God's peace in this situation. And that God would open the right door for you and others to minister to this person. I pray that his heart would be open and willing to discuss and understand where you are coming from and agree that God's Word, The Bible is TRUTH.

 

[mikeg]

Thank you Hat Lady for your shareing your insight. His reading of the scriptures does show that he is opening up the door to the truth. Again, how do I answer these specific questions raised by his quoteing of the scriptures. Although it has not effected my faith, his questions seem well founded in the good book. Jesus did say "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God" in Matt. 5:9. How do we deal with war?

 

[HumbleBee]

Mikeg!

All that is such a prideful deflection! The man of many questions is only trying to get the Divine spotlight off of himself and point it on what other Christians are doing or not doing, which he ignorantly thinks are reasons enough for him to not make a decision for Christ. Your co-worker is focussing on all the wrong people and in a sense, he putting his eternity in their human and fallible hands! Refute his highminded questions with somtin like...the real question is not "What would Jesus do?", nor is it "Do you see what other Christians have done or not done?", but rather it is "Do you know what Jesus already did on the Cross of Calvary with an everlasting, unconditional love for you personally?"

That man's questions are more arrogant than intelligent.

 

[mikeg]

In previous discussions with this co-worker, he has always questioned whether all Christians should be Christ-like in deeds and love. I strive in my life to be as good a Christian as I can by following Christ's teachings and following the scriptures but I just don't know how to answer him about war because if Jesus said to turn the other cheek and allowed himself to be taken and crucified should not true Christians also turn the other cheek? This is the question my co-worker asks and I am struggling with myself. Am I falling into a trap that this man is pushing me towards?

 

[HumbleBee]

Obviously, the ideal is that all Christians should be Christ-like! Yet Christians are fallible, fleshly human, some noncommital, more in name only than in practice. Again, I say, tiz foolish for your coworker to reject Jesus on the basis of imperfect Christians. Christ's life, all that was foretold about Him, and recorded of Him, proof enough that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life!

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Ecclesiastes 3 says there is a time for war. One nation certainly incites another into war. In the OT there was lots of war to protect God's People. How else are evil leaders to be ousted? They not just going to step down quietly.

There is a time to turn the other cheek and a time to fight back. Did Jesus 'turn His cheek' at the money changers in the temple? NO! He turned their tables over with a whip and drove them out!

Your coworker is misapplying Scriptures, taking them out of context. None of the heady issues he has brought up, really affect him personally, yet his decision for or against Christ will affect where he spends eternity...he be wiser to not deflect that crucial issue!

 

[Trymybest]

Hello,
I am new here and just happen to click on your post.
You could point out that the Bible also says "Judge not, lest ye be judged."
and "for by the measure ye judge, so shall ye be judged."
And you might point out that the starving children (as well as the rest of the people) in Iraq were first starving due to Saddam because he refued to let them have the food we tried to send and that now, anyone starving over their is the fault of the insurgents. We, are trying to get food and supplies to all of them and being killed in the attempt.
You could point out that the Bible instructs us to pray for those in authority, not judge, condem and complain.
You might remind him that President Bush is dealing with world conditions that were put in place and set in motion in large part due to Clinton.
You could tell him to read the rest of the Bible and pay particular attention to the "end times" prophecies and ask him if what we are going through now, globally, sounds at all like the beginnings of something like that.
You could tell him that the message of the Bible is one of love and compassion and ask if President Bush is the only President or world leader to not carry it out.
And you can pray for him (or them).

 

[tericl2]

First, read Romans 13:1-7. Governments and authorities are not quite under the same guidelines as individuals when involved in carrying out their responsibilties to those that they govern.

It might also help to read in Revelations. It certainly puts a kink in the cuddly, fuzzy-wuzzy picture so many like to paint of our Christ. Another place to look is in the OT. I know some may not agree with this but it is very likely that the Angel of the Lord mentioned in numerous places in the OT was Christ. (One simple reason for this is that same being was also referred to as the Lord in a few places and since no one has seen God the father, it is most likely an incarnation of Christ before his physical birth to Mary.)

Remember, it is the WHOLE BIBLE in context that matters; not just a few verses stripped from here and there. Also, I received this same email in a FW: from someone about a month ago, so it is making its rounds on the net.

 

[Katydid]

The problem with this e-mail is that every one of the verses quoted is out of context, (well at least all of them up till when I got tired of reading through all of them). The point is, if a person strikes you, you turn the other cheek. If a person kills children, it is wrong not to help. This is a list that you would have to break down scripture by scripture if you were to address all of it. Now if all you are wondering about is whether the war was right or not, there are numerous threads that address this on the forum and perhaps you could find some of them that have good explanations.

 

[ema0941]

Like many people I know, your co-worker has been put off looking to Christ for help because of the apparently unchristian behaviour of christians. If we could only be more christ-like I'm sure many more people would find Jesus.

 

[tamtam92]

Personnally I think it's true that Bush makes things a christian souldn't do (such as go to war...).

But if ever Bush is really a christian, it's possible he makes mistakes... like everybody. And i wouldn't tell to my schoolmates i think he's a christian, because his testimony to the world his sooo bad (except regarding moral issues).

I would point to this :

Alas, try as I might, I could find no guidance therein regarding abortion, homosexuality, pornography, gun control or the capital gains tax.

I think he's totally wrong on that point. That's obvious Jesus wouldn't have tolerate such things.

 

[let it shine]

Mike g, I think your co worker brings up alot of questions which sound like a challange aimed at your faith. But,I think he is really challanging his own lack of belief. He sounds unsure/

I can only tell you how I try to live my life. I try to keep it simple, from the OT I take the ten commandments as the true source of everything. They are truly the laws God has given us. They are so clear and simple they need not be interpeted or debated.

Killing is killing for what ever the reason and it is wrong, there is no justification. If you believe in life everlasting there should be no fear of death, because there is no such thing. I, as a Christan am opposed to all killing. I will not kill. I do not judge thoes who do. God will judge them. I believe God will forgive them as His only son forgave those who tried to kill him.

I look at the NT as God putting the Ten Commandments into a real life lession in the person of his son Jesus. He gave us Jesus to teach us and show us how we could/should/try to be. He loved all of us, fed the hungry, clothed the naked, housed the homeless and healed the sick. All things which connect back to the 10 source laws. We as indivudles and a nation have been blessed. Our material blessings are our greatest challange, they are so seductive, we can pleasure ourselves or do so much for so many, to be Christ-like in our hearts and deeds. Its a choice we must all make and to be true to our beliefs. I believe war is wrong, I believe the sick who can be healed and are not is wrong, the hungry who go unfed is wrong, and those left out in the cold while our homes are warm is wrong. I do as much as I can to help and feed those who have need. I always wish I could do more and I pray for help. To answer your co-workers questions, Remind him that God gives us choices and each of us has our personal relationship with God. So many of his questions deal with a world of corruption, greed and murder, done in the name of Ceaser, with the claim that God is on Ceaser's side. Accept the Lord, Love the life and blessing we have been given.