Need Help! Is This Actually Christian?

[ValidUserName]

@Mling

Ah yes. I have heard of this "Pearl." The poisonous propaganda of justified cruelty that spews from the Stygian vortex he so loosely defines as "mouth" is a disease that needs to be cleansed with fire.

I'm so-so about this subject. I will never hit my children, but I can't say that swatting a child is always bad. Granted there are parameters that need to be observed for safety's sake - parameters defined by both secular and non-secular psychologists and healthcare professionals - but I'm sort of up in the air about it.

My biggest hangup about it is that it rarely seems to have any affect on what kind of adult a child becomes. Though the relationship cannot be proven as causal, the numbers suggest that it may have an opposite reaction to the desired result. In states, counties, and districts with markedly higher violent crime rates that other areas of the country, approval of corporal punishment is higher. The percent of adults who were hit as children is much higher among incarcerated citizens than it is among citizens with no criminal record.

P.S. I have over 27 quadrillion Reps... is this good or bad?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

My biggest hangup about it is that it rarely seems to have any affect on what kind of adult a child becomes. Though the relationship cannot be proven as causal, the numbers suggest that it may have an opposite reaction to the desired result. In states, counties, and districts with markedly higher violent crime rates that other areas of the country, approval of corporal punishment is higher. The percent of adults who were hit as children is much higher among incarcerated citizens than it is among citizens with no criminal record.

Would you consider a study that revealed the corporal punishment habits of the various racial and ethnic groups?

 

[Mling]

@Mling

Ah yes. I have heard of this "Pearl." The poisonous propaganda of justified cruelty that spews from the Stygian vortex he so loosely defines as "mouth" is a disease that needs to be cleansed with fire.

I'm so-so about this subject. I will never hit my children, but I can't say that swatting a child is always bad. Granted there are parameters that need to be observed for safety's sake - parameters defined by both secular and non-secular psychologists and healthcare professionals - but I'm sort of up in the air about it.

Some people advocate a light "symbolic" swat, occasionally. That seems to follow the same pattern as most toxic things: when there's an effect, it is always bad, but below a certain threshold it is benign. "Symbolic" amounts of lead and cyanide are harmless as well.

[/quote]My biggest hangup about it is that it rarely seems to have any affect on what kind of adult a child becomes. Though the relationship cannot be proven as causal, the numbers suggest that it may have an opposite reaction to the desired result. In states, counties, and districts with markedly higher violent crime rates that other areas of the country, approval of corporal punishment is higher. The percent of adults who were hit as children is much higher among incarcerated citizens than it is among citizens with no criminal record.

P.S. I have over 27 quadrillion Reps... is this good or bad?[/quote]

Yup, every study I've ever seen either shows negative effects or none at all. All broad examinations of whole societies I've heard of, show results like that (what you said), and studies of individuals generally show high levels of aggression in the kids (which, to be fair, could go either way, in terms of causality), and a progressive decline of cognitive skills, relative to their peers (meaning, their actually cognitive skills don't decline, but they fall further and further behind their peers as time goes by, to a degree that is positively corrolated with the amount of corporal punishment they receive.)

That second one seems harder to explain with the "the causality actually goes the other way," argument. It makes perfect sense that fear-based punishment can slow the development of cognitive skills, though. Cognitive skills improve through use and practice: through exploration, trial, error, revision... A child whose primary goal is to learn (which is the goal of all young kids) will get lots of practice with those things. A child whose primary goal is not to make a mistake (for fear of punishment) will be more afraid to try new things and won't get as much practice with simply being a person.

Dropping things off of high-chairs, for example, is one of the major ways that babies learn cause and effect. Punish a child for it, and you undermine his ability to learn that major, foundational concept. I mean, what is tied to cause and effect? Responsibility for one's actions, realizing that you have the ability to create your own future, all of science. If instead of having the dawning realization that they are an agent who can affect change on the world, they have the dawning realiztion that when they are most fascinated by something, they are most in danger of pain; and being an agent is bad and gets you punished; it isn't hard to see how that is likely to stunt their ability to learn as they grow up.

 

[Beanieboy]

I would say that you should ask yourself if it fits the definition of Love that is found in 1 Corinthians 13 that is read so often at weddings:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Does it help the child, or harm the child in the long term? Is the punishment given in anger, or in love to help guide the child?

Bob Enyart, who is a Christian Talk Show Shock Jock, was taken to court because he whipped his child with a power cord that left bruises and welts, and was accused of child abuse.

I can't imagine any situation that would call for such extreme punishment, although "whipping kids" with a switch was once common.

Is it "Christian"? It depends on who you ask. There is a verse that says that a
child who curses his parents should be stoned to death. While it is biblical, is it Christian, in the light of what Christ taught?

The bible also talks about stoning a spouse caught in adultery, murderers, people who work on the sabbath, rape victims marrying their rapist...

You have to read the bible, and then pray to God about it help you understand through the HS.

Personally, I have a huge problem with severe spanking, especially past 4 or so. I was spanked really hard with a belt. It simply caused fear in getting caught and punished rather than learning anything. It also taught me that the way that you solve your problems was hitting the other person into submission.

I believe that there are much better ways to discipline children, such as taking away privileges and time outs.

 

[Tielec]

I would say that you should ask yourself if it fits the definition of Love that is found in 1 Corinthians 13 that is read so often at weddings:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Does it help the child, or harm the child in the long term? Is the punishment given in anger, or in love to help guide the child?

Bob Enyart, who is a Christian Talk Show Shock Jock, was taken to court because he whipped his child with a power cord that left bruises and welts, and was accused of child abuse.

I can't imagine any situation that would call for such extreme punishment, although "whipping kids" with a switch was once common.

Is it "Christian"? It depends on who you ask. There is a verse that says that a
child who curses his parents should be stoned to death. While it is biblical, is it Christian, in the light of what Christ taught?

The bible also talks about stoning a spouse caught in adultery, murderers, people who work on the sabbath, rape victims marrying their rapist...

You have to read the bible, and then pray to God about it help you understand through the HS.

Personally, I have a huge problem with severe spanking, especially past 4 or so. I was spanked really hard with a belt. It simply caused fear in getting caught and punished rather than learning anything. It also taught me that the way that you solve your problems was hitting the other person into submission.

I believe that there are much better ways to discipline children, such as taking away privileges and time outs.

Agreed.
Skinner used a box, which worked quite effectively for his daughter.

It gives me a (morbid) giggle to hear people say (and I paraphrase) - "Society would be better if only people beat their children more".

 

[Mling]

Agreed.
Skinner used a box, which worked quite effectively for his daughter.

It gives me a (morbid) giggle to hear people say (and I paraphrase) - "Society would be better if only people beat their children more".

The Skinner Box was not a disciplinary device. It was a climate-controlled crib. The idea was that she would be able to kick freely and naturally, exercising as much as possible as a baby, without blankets or clothes to tangle her up. Basically, it's an anti-swaddle. Paper lining negated the need for a diaper, too. He didn't trap her in it--it was just where she slept, and I think there was a smaller version he carried her in, much like somebody would use those strappy-chair-like baby carriers.

 

[AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2]

SPARE THE ROD
you spoil the child.....



no abuse but spanking is good



opps"" time is so obsolete



try putting a 15 to 18 yrs old in time out


i thought the authorities have social services ... hm hm

NOTE: I don't often use internet research, but I followed links from a Christian forum to the forum in question (listed below).

I have been asking around countless forums and doing my own research, but I still haven't found concrete proof of whether or not the place in question is a "Christian" or real forum group or a group of trolls. So instead, I'll pose this question: do you believe it is ethically sound - by either secular or Biblical standards, whichever you choose if not both - to punish children in the following ways?

Don't know if this is the right place, but I wanted to get some Christian opinions about a specific site.

I've been writing an article about the correlations between spanking a child, IQ, and crime rates in areas that boast higher approval ratings of corporal punishment. While doing some research, I came across a forum called Voy.com.

There are many threads and topics relating to spanking in this forum. I skimmed a lot of the topics. I was disturbed, to say the least.

In a forum dedicated to spanking memories, a number of people recalled how, as teenagers, they were often spanked naked by parents or step parents, forced to assume positions that would display their fully developed genitals. In many of these instances, neighbors, other family members, and even acquaintances of the families were present and watching. This was recalled as being "just fine."

One thread was about age, and some women and men recalled being spanked naked or with bare buttocks by parents, uncles, or step-parents as old as twenty. This was said to be "just fine."

There are about five threads dedicated to how a parent should handle their male teenager becoming sexually aroused when spanked. Many said that this was "a completely normal reaction to being naked" and that erection could be taken care of by - and I'm not making this up - flicking the penis, whipping the penis, or sharply pulling on the penis.

Most of the posters say that it is "just fine" - nay, required! - that the child be completely humiliated during their punishment. They also advocate the use of implements - belts, straps, and paddles - and claim that their children (or themselves, when they were living with their parents) would not be able to sit without pain for multiple days afterward.

Typically, when numbers are listed, parents say that, when using an implement, they should strike the child's buttocks 30-60 times.

Some of the more hardcore parents advocate the use of extension cords and plastic pipe tubing, implements that were also favored by Larry and Constance Slack (whose child died from internal bleeding after 117 strokes) and Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz (who - according to the girl's siblings - beat their adopted daughter because she pronounced "four" as "fo").

Now I consider myself as a man with a level head. My first response was to shake my head in disbelief, as I truly believed that - like Landover Baptist Church - this was a farce, a satire of Christian parenting techniques. However, it didn't really seem all that hyperbolic, and it wasn't funny at all. It seemed like a poor attempt at satire.

These forums, however, seemed to be full of seriousness and often used Biblical citations to justify their actions.

VoyForums: Childhood Spanking Memories
Erections during spanking -- Old Fashioned Spanking for Teenaged Males

 

[seashale76]

I'm not an advocate of spanking myself. However, if you find yourself in the position of stripping 'em down and beating the tar out of them with various objects, and especially when they're teens, then you're doing the whole parenting thing wrong.

 

[Tielec]

The Skinner Box was not a disciplinary device. It was a climate-controlled crib. The idea was that she would be able to kick freely and naturally, exercising as much as possible as a baby, without blankets or clothes to tangle her up. Basically, it's an anti-swaddle. Paper lining negated the need for a diaper, too. He didn't trap her in it--it was just where she slept, and I think there was a smaller version he carried her in, much like somebody would use those strappy-chair-like baby carriers.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story

 

[Andrew Ryan]

I was unaware that parents still used "spanking," as a punishment for their teenagers. Further if arousal occurs, just spank the front, should put a stop to that.

 

[SithDoughnut]

I was unaware that parents still used "spanking," as a punishment for their teenagers. Further if arousal occurs, just spank the front, should put a stop to that.

I see you haven't visited the four corners of the internet yet

 

[Andrew Ryan]

I see you haven't visited the four corners of the internet yet

Some perverts may like it but assuming you caused the below condition to happen I think it would put a literal stop to it.

Penile fracture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SithDoughnut]

Some perverts may like it but assuming you caused the below condition to happen I think it would put a literal stop to it.

Penile fracture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It might, but you'd have to find out from whatever jail cell you're in after you're convicted for child abuse and possibly sex crimes.

 

[andreha]

NOTE: I don't often use internet research, but I followed links from a Christian forum to the forum in question (listed below).

I have been asking around countless forums and doing my own research, but I still haven't found concrete proof of whether or not the place in question is a "Christian" or real forum group or a group of trolls. So instead, I'll pose this question: do you believe it is ethically sound - by either secular or Biblical standards, whichever you choose if not both - to punish children in the following ways?

Don't know if this is the right place, but I wanted to get some Christian opinions about a specific site.

I've been writing an article about the correlations between spanking a child, IQ, and crime rates in areas that boast higher approval ratings of corporal punishment. While doing some research, I came across a forum called Voy.com.

There are many threads and topics relating to spanking in this forum. I skimmed a lot of the topics. I was disturbed, to say the least.

In a forum dedicated to spanking memories, a number of people recalled how, as teenagers, they were often spanked naked by parents or step parents, forced to assume positions that would display their fully developed genitals. In many of these instances, neighbors, other family members, and even acquaintances of the families were present and watching. This was recalled as being "just fine."

One thread was about age, and some women and men recalled being spanked naked or with bare buttocks by parents, uncles, or step-parents as old as twenty. This was said to be "just fine."

There are about five threads dedicated to how a parent should handle their male teenager becoming sexually aroused when spanked. Many said that this was "a completely normal reaction to being naked" and that erection could be taken care of by - and I'm not making this up - flicking the penis, whipping the penis, or sharply pulling on the penis.

Most of the posters say that it is "just fine" - nay, required! - that the child be completely humiliated during their punishment. They also advocate the use of implements - belts, straps, and paddles - and claim that their children (or themselves, when they were living with their parents) would not be able to sit without pain for multiple days afterward.

Typically, when numbers are listed, parents say that, when using an implement, they should strike the child's buttocks 30-60 times.

Some of the more hardcore parents advocate the use of extension cords and plastic pipe tubing, implements that were also favored by Larry and Constance Slack (whose child died from internal bleeding after 117 strokes) and Kevin and Elizabeth Schatz (who - according to the girl's siblings - beat their adopted daughter because she pronounced "four" as "fo").

Now I consider myself as a man with a level head. My first response was to shake my head in disbelief, as I truly believed that - like Landover Baptist Church - this was a farce, a satire of Christian parenting techniques. However, it didn't really seem all that hyperbolic, and it wasn't funny at all. It seemed like a poor attempt at satire.

These forums, however, seemed to be full of seriousness and often used Biblical citations to justify their actions.

VoyForums: Childhood Spanking Memories
Erections during spanking -- Old Fashioned Spanking for Teenaged Males

If those people on VoyForums are for real, then I'd think they are a bunch of psychotic pedophiles.