Need help analyzing...

[really]

2 Samuel 24

i don't understand it much. i'm sure you all have a Bible close by

i apologize, i'm not yet allowed to post links to the scripture itself and i fear summarizing would dillute its message.

could anyone hep me to understand it?

 

[really]

16 views and not a single reply. anyone? plz.

 

[really]

can anyone help?

 

[HypnoToad]

What is it you don't understand? It seems a fairly straightforward account.

 

[really]

i don't understand god's actions and why he kills all those ppl even tho the king did something that was supposedly wrong.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

2 Samuel 24

i don't understand it much. i'm sure you all have a Bible close by

i apologize, i'm not yet allowed to post links to the scripture itself and i fear summarizing would dillute its message.

could anyone hep me to understand it?

The story begins several chapters earlier and reveals the beginning of the separation of Israel into two 'houses'. Chapter 24 seems to be God's punishment on the 10 tribes of Israel for their treacherous loyalty to Absalom's rebellion against his father David. That the tribe of Judah was loyal to David saved them (Jerusalem) from the death angel. Only 'Israel' was punished. Of course the final division occurred after the death of Solomon.

As Israel was 'numbered' many times in the past in preparation for battle the numbering had nothing to do with the punishment inflicted.

Many believe that 'numbering' meant a lack of faith that God would provide the victory. Jesus refutes this by asking, "What king goes to battle without determining if he has enough force to win."

owg

 

[NorrinRadd]

The story begins several chapters earlier and reveals the beginning of the separation of Israel into two 'houses'. Chapter 24 seems to be God's punishment on the 10 tribes of Israel for their treacherous loyalty to Absalom's rebellion against his father David. That the tribe of Judah was loyal to David saved them (Jerusalem) from the death angel. Only 'Israel' was punished. Of course the final division occurred after the death of Solomon.

As Israel was 'numbered' many times in the past in preparation for battle the numbering had nothing to do with the punishment inflicted.

Many believe that 'numbering' meant a lack of faith that God would provide the victory. Jesus refutes this by asking, "What king goes to battle without determining if he has enough force to win."

owg

That explanation does not fit the context, given that Joab tries to dissuade David from the census in 24:3, David recognizes his own guilt in the census-taking in 24:10, and immediately following that Gad comes to him with the message of impending judgment.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Deleted misfire.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Another goof deleted.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That explanation does not fit the context, given that Joab tries to dissuade David from the census in 24:3, David recognizes his own guilt in the census-taking in 24:10, and immediately following that Gad comes to him with the message of impending judgment.

Read the whole chapter again, carefully. I often have to reread scripture several times before the meaning becomes clear, and I often have to backtrack several chapters to get a larger view. The NIV is a good version to use for this study.

owg

 

[TimRout]

Problem: How could a holy God punish someone for following His orders?


Answer: In 2 Samuel 24:1-25 we find the story of king David and the illegal census. In this passage we learn that Israel had once again provoked God to anger.


“Now again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, 'Go, number Israel and Judah.'” [2 Samuel 24:1/NASB]


The “it” indicated in this verse is nonspecific and requires careful interpretation. The New King James Version renders “He”, suggesting that Yahweh was the one who incited David, but this is inconsistent with the parallel passage found in 1 Chronicles.


“Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.” [1 Chronicles 21:1/NASB]


There can be no doubt that Satan was the one who prompted David to violate Exodus 30:12 and count the people without appropriate sacrifice. These sacrifices were a sign of God's ownership over Israel. For David to count the people without following the instructions of the law, was tantamount to claiming personal ownership of Israel – and that's a no no. The only question, then, is the nature of Yahweh's involvement. Did God cause David to sin, or simply permit Satan to incite David?


I believe the latter is more consistent with the testimony of Scripture. Firstly, God does not tempt anyone to break His law [James 1:13]. Secondly, given Satan's obvious involvement, it is reasonable to conclude that God gave him permission to incite David [Job 1:12; 2:6], in the same way God gave him permission to harm Job.

As for why God punished Israel for David's sins --- He really didn't. Rather, God orchestrated a scenario through which Israel would be punished for their own sins. David's sin was merely a vehicle for God's wrath. While David rightly took responsibility for illegally counting the people, you will notice that God was angry with Israel before David ordered the census.


Hope this helps.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

“Now again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, 'Go, number Israel and Judah.'” [2 Samuel 24:1/NASB]


The “it” indicated in this verse is nonspecific and requires careful interpretation. The New King James Version renders “He”, suggesting that Yahweh was the one who incited David, but this is inconsistent with the parallel passage found in 1 Chronicles.


“Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel.” [1 Chronicles 21:1/NASB]

Most other versions use the pronoun 'he' in verse 1 of 2Sam 24. The story in 1Chron 21 is more comlete but still indicates that it was the anger of the Lord against Israel that is the operative motive for punishment. As ambiguous as it is I still believe it was the earlier disloyalty to David by the 10 tribes that caused God's anger against them. David seeks to take the blame but God still punishes the people and not him. It is interesting that Joab did not number Levi or Benjamin, who later stayed with Judah when Israel was finally divided in the days of Jerebaom and Rheboam.

Also because the number of fighting men is given for both Israel and Judah separately (in 2Sam 24) it is possible that God was going to set one against the other. They had already been warring against each other. This may have been what disturbed Joab so much as numbering was a portend to war.

Another point that I just uncovered: "Lord" , as it appears in 2 Sam 24:1 is a proper noun or God's actual name. The pronoun "he" that follows must refer to the Lord and not someone else. The word "Satan" is primarily a masculine noun that can be generally translated as "adversary", or, "one who withstands". It can also be translated as a proper noun, the name Satan. I think "Satan" is mistranslated in 1 Chron 21:1, and should read "adversary".

owg