need for clarifications

[Saudi girl]

Hi…
I have some misconceptions concerning Christianity which I would like you to clarify.

What do you mean by saying that God is one while you refer to three GODS?

Is God ONE in three or three in one?

Another question:
If Jesus God the son or (the son of God)is really God or part of the one God,does not this contradict what the Bible itself reports that no one can see God,nor hear His voice?
The Bible states:
"You have never Heard His voice nor seen His Face" (John5:37)


"No one has ever seen Him and no one can see Him" (1 Timothy6:16)

'No one can see Me and stay alive" (Exodus33:20)

Based on these and other Biblical texts, I sincerely an honestly ask "How can we reconcile the dogma that Jesus is God and the Biblical testimony that no one has ever seen God, nor heard His voice?

Didn't the Jews at his time ,his family,and his followers see Jesus (God the son )and hear his voice?!

"Is there any secret or any hidden purpose concerning the truth about God?

In the Bible the true God emphatically testifies ,"I am the Lord,and there is no other god. I have not spoken in secret or kept my purpose hidden…I am the Lord,and I speak the truth;I make known that is right." (Isaiah45:19).

So,what is the truth ?

Please reread the verse and think about it!

Thank you a lot.

Waiting for your clarifications.

 

[Saudi girl]

Sorry for this mistake(the way of writing the thread).I wrote it in my Arabic computer!

 

[Altoman188]

Hi,
Jesus is God, the son of God, and the Son of Man. He was born through man by way of Mary. Thus, e can see and hear him and not be struck dead or blind or deaf in shear awe.
I belive that God, the Father, does not have a form that we can comprend other than Jesus. Or rather, Jesus is the physical form of God. And Jesus is the only one to actually of "seen" and heard His voice other than the holy Spirit, and perhaps angels. And i belive it refers more to that.
I cant think of any scripture off the top of my head, may get back to that, im not sure. May God bless you with Wisdom and disernment.
In Christ

Josh

 

[Tavita]

Hi Saudi girl

I hope you don't mind that I changed your font and size....

Hi… I have some misconceptions concerning Christianity which I would like you to clarify. What do you mean by saying that God is one while you refer to three GODS? Is God ONE in three or three in one?

There are three in the Godhead. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. They are so unified that they are ONE.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Another question: If Jesus God the son or (the son of God)is really God or part of the one God,does not this contradict what the Bible itself reports that no one can see God,nor hear His voice? The Bible states: #You have never Heard His voice nor seen His Face#(John5:37) #No one has ever seen Him and no one can see Him#(1 Timothy6:16) #No one can see Me and stay alive#(Exodus33:20) Based on these and other Biblical texts, I sincerely an honestly ask"How can we reconcile the dogma that Jesus is God and the Biblical testimony that no one has ever seen God ,nor heard His voice? Didn't the Jews at his time ,his family,and his followers see Jesus (God the son )and hear his voice?!

Jesus and Timothy were speaking of God the Father. One reason Jesus was sent into the world was to show us who the Father is. Jesus the Son is also called the 'Word', and by Him and through Him were all things created....

John 1:
1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


Colossians 1:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;


Jesus is the child given to us prophesied by Isaiah, notice His names....

Isaiah 9:
6 For a child is born to us,
a son is given to us.
The government will rest on his shoulders.
And he will be called:
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 His government and its peace
will never end.

*Is there any secret or any hidden purpose concerning the truth about God? In the Bible the true God emphatically testifies ,"I am the Lord,and there is no other god. I have not spoken in secret or kept my purpose hidden…I am the Lord,and I speak the truth;I make known that is right."(Isaiah45:19). So,what is the truth ?

God spoke through His prophets to declare what His purpose's are, He didn't keep anything secret or hidden. Most times we are slow to pick up on what He has already declared, as in the truth of the Messiah being born and dying for our sin. All the way through the OT God foretells who His sent one is and what He would accomplish.

There are many aspects to truth but Jesus Himself said ..

John 14:6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.

 

[Rafael]

God is not limited to just the dimensions of a man, but can manifest Himself as three characters or persons of the same One God. Light has different properties and manifestations as does water with its steam, ice, and liquid states of being.
From the begining of the Bible, God speaks of Himself as plural, and Him manifesting Himself in the flesh of man only makes sense, as He desires to reveal Himself in love and to be known by His greatest creation in His own image - man.
We should not limit God to only the dimensions that we are bound to in death as mankind. He has rescued us from death by means of His awesome power and abilities to manifest as the Three in One.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Col.2:9 For in Him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Isaiah 6:8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?” Then I said, “Here am I. Send me!

Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

What frame or words can hold all that God is?

Light is unlike any other form of matter. It has three properties. These properties are inseparable, without them, there is no light. Just like God.
Without the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, there would be no God. Each is coequal, coeternal, and co infinite.
Light's three properties are the Actinic (analogous to the Father), Luminiferous (analogues to the Son), and the Calorific (analogous to the Holy Spirit). The actinic property is the property of light which is neither seen nor felt. The luminiferous property of light is both seen and felt, while the calorific property is not seen but it is felt.

 

[dvd_holc]

Jesus (Yeshua) Christ (Messiah) was fully human and restrained his glory of being God so that he could restore the people to God. Trinity of God can be observed throughout all of the bible, and God had planned from the beginning to join in his creation through Jesus (Yeshua) to return creation back to the harmony of the garden.

 

[epy]

God is one. The concept of the three "persons" of God, the Trinity, does not change the fact that God is one. I have heard all kinds of explanations like matter is still matter even though it can exist in solid, liquid, or gas form. However, I think it comes down to how we see God. Each part of the Trinity has its own role in our eyes. God the Father rules. Jesus is the Savior who was given The Holy Spirit works within us. We see these different aspects of God and, at least for me, it is hard to reconcile them all together, but God is nonetheless one.

John 5:37"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. 38"You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent. Exodus 33:20 But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"
(I see this passage as speaking to non-believers.)

1 Timothy 6:16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.


I put forth this passage as explanation:

Corinthians 13:9For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.

We see God in His creation and "hear"(not a voice however) Him speaking to us as a response to prayer. Even though we do not Him in entirety we see glimpses of Him.

Scripture quoted from the NASB(R)

 

[epy]

What frame or words can hold all that God is?

Light is unlike any other form of matter. It has three properties. These properties are inseparable, without them, there is no light. Just like God.
Without the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, there would be no God. Each is coequal, coeternal, and co infinite.
Light's three properties are the Actinic (analogous to the Father), Luminiferous (analogues to the Son), and the Calorific (analogous to the Holy Spirit). The actinic property is the property of light which is neither seen nor felt. The luminiferous property of light is both seen and felt, while the calorific property is not seen but it is felt.

Do you happen to have a link to a more in depth treatment of that analogy? I like it and would like to look into it.

 

[Happy Orthodox]

Light is unlike any other form of matter. It has three properties. These properties are inseparable, without them, there is no light. Just like God.
Without the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, there would be no God. Each is coequal, coeternal, and co infinite.
Light's three properties are the Actinic (analogous to the Father), Luminiferous (analogues to the Son), and the Calorific (analogous to the Holy Spirit). The actinic property is the property of light which is neither seen nor felt. The luminiferous property of light is both seen and felt, while the calorific property is not seen but it is felt.

I've never heard of this, all I know that light has 2 properties -- that of a wave and that of a particle. Could you clarify what exactly those three "properties" are referring to? And why can't you say that about any other object which is also seen, felt, smelt, tasted, and whatnot?


The triunity of God has always been explained in the Ancient Church like this:

1. The sun is taken as an example. The sun on the sky has its disk, and it is like the Father. The light is like the Son, Whom we see, and Who reveals the Father, or the disk of the sun. The warmth that we feel is the Holy Spirit, which makes us feel the Son and the Father. These three are inseparable, sinse you can't separate warmth from the sun, or its light, or its disk. Nor are they merged because the disk, the light and the warmth are not one and same thing.

2. Another example, is our own self. We are also three in one: we have thoughts, feelings, and will (wish). They are inseparable but not merged. When we think, we say, "I think", when we feel, we say "I feel", when we want, we say "I want". It is all "I", so they are not "parts" or ourselves, they are us taken by themselves and together. But these three also cannot be separated, and we can't only have feelings or only thoughts or only will. So, like God, we can't be disassembled into three parts, neither are these merged or confused. There is no "three me", but one. But the three are no parts of me but me as well.

 

[MariaRegina]

Doesn't light have three primary colors from which all the other colors are derived?

Christ said, "I am the Light of the World."

Without light we wouldn't have life.

 

[supernova165]

Another question:If Jesus God the son or (the son of God)is really God or part of the one God,does not this contradict what the Bible itself reports that no one can see God,nor hear His voice?The Bible states:#You have never Heard His voice nor seen His Face#(John5:37)#No one has ever seen Him and no one can see Him#(1 Timothy6:16)#No one can see Me and stay alive#(Exodus33:20)Based on these and other Biblical texts, I sincerely an honestly ask"How can we reconcile the dogma that Jesus is God and the Biblical testimony that no one has ever seen God ,nor heard His voice?Didn't the Jews at his time ,his family,and his followers see Jesus (God the son )and hear his voice?!

I this is talking about God the father in all His power. I agree with the other posts before

 

[supernova165]

Another question:If Jesus God the son or (the son of God)is really God or part of the one God,does not this contradict what the Bible itself reports that no one can see God,nor hear His voice?The Bible states:#You have never Heard His voice nor seen His Face#(John5:37)#No one has ever seen Him and no one can see Him#(1 Timothy6:16)#No one can see Me and stay alive#(Exodus33:20)Based on these and other Biblical texts, I sincerely an honestly ask"How can we reconcile the dogma that Jesus is God and the Biblical testimony that no one has ever seen God ,nor heard His voice?Didn't the Jews at his time ,his family,and his followers see Jesus (God the son )and hear his voice?!

I this is talking about God the father in all His power. I agree with the other posts before

 

[Skaloop]

Doesn't light have three primary colors from which all the other colors are derived?

Not at all. Colours are figments of the mind, based on a light's wavelength. Light does not have colour outside our brains; what it does have is a continuum of wavelengths (not all of which are even visible to humans).

 

[ebia]

Hi…
I have some misconceptions concerning Christianity which I would like you to clarify.

What do you mean by saying that God is one while you refer to three GODS?

Is God ONE in three or three in one?

One God - 3 persons. The Athanasian Creed is the best attempt to "summarise" it that anyone has come up with:
http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

Another question:
If Jesus God the son or (the son of God)is really God or part of the one God,does not this contradict what the Bible itself reports that no one can see God,nor hear His voice?
The Bible states:
"You have never Heard His voice nor seen His Face" (John5:37)

Is talking about God the Father.

"No one has ever seen Him and no one can see Him" (1 Timothy6:16)

Likewise.

'No one can see Me and stay alive" (Exodus33:20)

Likewise, and (most importantly) is talking about God in his Glory - a glimpse of which was revealed in Jesus in the transfiguration. That glory is (for the most part) hidden in Jesus during his incarnation.

 

[EyezOFire]

God is also everywhere , just as close to me as he is to you Saudi Girl. If you go into the Bible where Jesus was bapitized by John the Baptist, there were eyewitnesses, who say the sky opened and a voice came from Heaven and said this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased, then it goes further to say the Holy Spirit descended in the form of a dove. (Luke 1 10-12)- There is God in all 3 at one time

 

[heron]

Happy Orthodox's post reminded me that you might not know what each represents. Forgive me if you already know this:

1. God the Father -- Creator, decision-maker, all-knowing, all-powerful. He makes covenants with people, pays attention to everything that goes on... also responds in ways that might shake us out of our passivity. Location seems to be based in heaven, with fluid presence on earth.

2. God the Son, Jesus -- Also referred to as the Word of God, the sacrificial Lamb, the Bridegroom of the Church, God incarnate, our joint heir to the kingdom of God.... the Vine that we graft ourselves into... the shepherd that guides us. He makes the God concept more tangible and accessible. Some say that the Word of God spoken during creation was Jesus... that gets more confusing. Location bounces from heaven to earth to hell to earth to heaven... He seems to move distinctly.

3. Holy Spirit -- During creation, the spirit brooded across the face of the waters. The Holy Spirit empowers us to do the work of God. When Jesus left the earth, He sent the Spirit to fill his void -- God in our hearts to guide us. The Spirit gives us discernment and words from God. Fruits of the Spirit in our lives are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, self-control. Location--the Spirit seems more spread out, in every believer's heart, converging in pockets of power... the focus is usefulness, support for people through informing, empowering, and comforting.

People seeing God-- Moses had an experience where God was in sight, but he had to shield himself from the intensity. God walked in the garden with Adam and Eve. Jacob wrestled with an angel that seems to have turned out to be God himself, in human form.

 

[prophecystudent]

Hi, you ask interesting questions. Regarding not hearing God, I cite the scriptures below.

1. Matthew 3:17
   And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
   Matthew 3:16-18 (in Context) Matthew 3 (Whole Chapter)
2. Matthew 17:5
   While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"
   Matthew 17:4-6 (in Context) Matthew 17 (Whole Chapter)
3. 2 Peter 1:17
   For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

If you click on the links you will be taken to the site and can read the whole portions of the various citations.

God has been seen, see the citation below.

I Exodus 33:21-23 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
21 Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."

Fred

 

[Stromlo]

Dear Saudi girl,

You said the following in your opening post and it is to this that I will be replying.

What do you mean by saying that God is one while you refer to three GODS? Is God ONE in three or three in one?

You are correcet in that you need clarification on this issue. You see, Christians believe that God is one in essence, but three in Person. Now that all sounds confusing and all, so what do we mean when we use the terms "essence" and "Person"? Well, essence can be interchanged with the word "being." To be even more precise, essence is what you are. Further, we clearly should not think of God as “consisting of” anything other than divinity. The “substance” of God is God, not a bunch of “ingredients” that taken together yield deity. So we only believe in one being that is God. Like you, we are monotheistic. We believe in one God. We vary from your belief when we talk about Person...

In regards to the Trinity, we use the term “Person” differently than we generally use it in everyday life. Therefore it is often difficult to have a concrete definition of Person as we use it in regards to the Trinity. What we do not mean by Person is an “independent individual” in the sense that both I and another human are separate, independent individuals who can exist apart from one another.

What we do mean by Person is something that regards himself as “I” and others as “You.” So the Father, for example, is a different Person from the Son because He regards the Son as a “You,” even though He regards Himself as “I.” Thus, in regards to the Trinity, we can say that “Person” means a distinct subject which regards Himself as an “I” and the other two as a “You.” These distinct subjects are not a division within the being of God, but “a form of personal existence other than a difference in being.”

The relationship between essence and Person, then, is as follows. Within God's one, undivided being is an "unfolding" into three personal distinctions. These personal distinctions are modes of existence within the divine being, but are not divisions of the divine being. They are personal forms of existence other than a difference in being. The late theologian Herman Bavinck has stated something very helpful at this point: “The persons are modes of existence within the being; accordingly, the Persons differ among themselves as the one mode of existence differs from the other, and—using a common illustration—as the open palm differs from a closed fist.”

Because each of these “forms of existence” are relational (and thus are Persons), they are each a distinct center of consciousness, with each center of consciousness regarding Himself as “I” and the others as “You.” Nonetheless, these three Persons all “consist of” the same “stuff” (that is, the same “what,” or essence). As theologian and apologist Norman Geisler has explained it, while essence is what you are, person is who you are. So God is one “what” but three “whos.”

If you are truly interested in finding an answer to your question, then may I suggest that you go to the article Understanding The Trinity by Matt Perman available on-line at: biggergod.com/trinity.html . Just copy and paste the address into your address bar and press enter or click "Go" - depending on what Internet browser you are using.

Because I guess that you probably won't go there, I've copied some of the information on the article above to at least give you some idea of what we believe. You should undertand though, that the concept of the Trinity can never be completely understood by our limited minds - we should not expect to be able to completely understand and explain an infinite God anyways... But I strongly suggest this article, it explains it better than anything else I have read.

In other words, we believe that God is one in essence and three in Person. This is why it is not a contradiction - He is one (essence) in a different way than what He is three (Person). It would only be a contradiction if God were three in the same way that He is one.

I hope that the information above from Understanding The Trinity by Matt Perman helps to answer your question.

 

[heron]

Doesn't light have three primary colors from which all the other colors are derived?

Christ said, "I am the Light of the World."

Without light we wouldn't have life.

Interesting concept to think about...


CMYK color -- Subtractive--
As we use pigmented color in daily life, painting and drawing, combined colors get darker or muddier as we layer them.

http://faculty.arts.usf.edu/marsh/cmy_model.jpg



RGB color -- Additive--
Colors combine toward greater intensity of light, as on a computer monitor or the sun. In this case, red plus green plus blue can make white light.... or all the colors combined. A prism breaks those down into wavelengths of color. Layering two primary RGB colors yields the purest CMYK colors (magenta, cyan, yellow)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/RGB_illumination.jpg/200px-RGB_illumination.jpg


If you explore that concept further, of Christ as the light of the world, and each of us hiding our light under a bushel or not... it also brings to mind the varieties of colors (our characters, gifts, interests...) that make up his church , all combining perfectly toward pure light.

http://www.d.umn.edu/~mharvey/prism.jpg


Hmm...

 

[Key]

Not at all. Colours are figments of the mind, based on a light's wavelength. Light does not have colour outside our brains; what it does have is a continuum of wavelengths (not all of which are even visible to humans).

Which translate into "color" when received by a receptot or reflected by / or filtered by a tinted object of the same intensity.

God Bless

Key