need encouragment / question

[OptimisticSmile]

A few months ago I started coming here because i had trouble with doubting my salvation and obssessing about it 24/7. I could not get my mind off of it and it made me like a zombie socially when around freinds. I was depressed and only wanted to sleep all the time because it was the only time i had relief. I visited my pastor compulsively for about 2 weeks sometimes driving to his house unexpectedly.

My pastor told me to just let the thoughts pass and continue on. I feel that im just now at the point where I am doing that. The problem is that I have not gotten back to feeling like i did when my walk was secure and I didnt doubt my salvation (what I did doubt was my motives and feelings which eventually led me to doubt my salvation). I am continuing on with the plans i had made about my future when I did feel secure and led by the holy spirit but now I just dont feel very enthusiastic about anyting. Its like im having to look backwards before the scrupilosity to get any drive for the future and i have to go off the passions and desires I had before the doubting . I try to view this as a chapter in my life , a phase, but its been a lifelong struggle and ive only had a few years that I was not bothered by it. It started as a child and until recently i thought i was the only one like this.

As I look ahead im thinking how can I continue on like this. My pastor told me God did not promise us peace, happiness , or rest on this earth although that is a part of the "normal" christians life sometimes (though i was led to believe the abscence of those things meant you werent saved). God allows us to stay this way, and it seems to us that it would only make sense for him to remove this now. we have to keep in mind God has the entiree master plan and he sees years ahead in our life when we only see the current struggle.

one question: i mentioned before how i have trouble with not exeriencing emotions and feelings . the othernight a freind and I were praying in a group and as he started to pray for me I got "goosebumps" I actually felt something. that night when i was at home praying before bed I felt it again. Is that what people mean when they "feel" God's prescence. its not something ive expereiced much if at all before in terms of a "feeling". My best freind who is a christian said he has had the same feeling in the same context.

theres something id like to discuss here that i havent discussed with anyone but id rather do it privatly if anyone cares to listen (prefferebly someone who is married)

 

[Liftyourhand7]

Hi Optomisticsmile,

Many of us with OCD have trouble with our emotions ("FEELINGS") it truly is part of this terrible disorder I am glad to hear that you felt God's presence, that is a wonderful thing, however just because you do not feel it does not mean that He is not with you(He still very much is) that He will never leave us or forsake us is a promise of his never ending presence. Having faith in God does not depend on our "Feelings", Our Feelings can be very deceptive, as we all here know. Believe me when I say Faith is a much more important issue. God wants us to believe and trust him no matter what the circumstances, or how we "FEEL". OCD is such a monster, it and satan wants us to believe a lie, if we think we have to FEEl good to be saved or secure then we are not believing what God's word says. THe Lord is always saying that we will experience troulbe in this world, but to take heart for He has overcome the world. OCD for us that have it, can cause such a troubled heart, on the other hand it can also help us to stay close to the Master, I know this may sound like an odd statement but for myself it has built my faith, and helped me have a greater understanding of the Lord's compassion. Don't get me wrong I would rather not have this disorder, but I try not to look at the circumstances and try just to focus on our God and his unconditional Love for me. I hope this helps, and I don't know what your other question is but you may PM me if you would like. I am a married person ( you mentioned that you would like to ask a married person a private question) I hope I can help. Blessings Jan

 

[OptimisticSmile]

ok Ill hold off on asking you just yet. I think God may have answered it tonight. I think I just have to be patient and wait on God.

 

[ObsessedButBlessed]

A few months ago I started coming here because i had trouble with doubting my salvation and obssessing about it 24/7. I could not get my mind off of it and it made me like a zombie socially when around freinds. I was depressed and only wanted to sleep all the time because it was the only time i had relief. I visited my pastor compulsively for about 2 weeks sometimes driving to his house unexpectedly.

My pastor told me to just let the thoughts pass and continue on. I feel that im just now at the point where I am doing that. The problem is that I have not gotten back to feeling like i did when my walk was secure and I didnt doubt my salvation (what I did doubt was my motives and feelings which eventually led me to doubt my salvation). I am continuing on with the plans i had made about my future when I did feel secure and led by the holy spirit but now I just dont feel very enthusiastic about anyting. Its like im having to look backwards before the scrupilosity to get any drive for the future and i have to go off the passions and desires I had before the doubting . I try to view this as a chapter in my life , a phase, but its been a lifelong struggle and ive only had a few years that I was not bothered by it. It started as a child and until recently i thought i was the only one like this.

As I look ahead im thinking how can I continue on like this. My pastor told me God did not promise us peace, happiness , or rest on this earth although that is a part of the "normal" christians life sometimes (though i was led to believe the abscence of those things meant you werent saved). God allows us to stay this way, and it seems to us that it would only make sense for him to remove this now. we have to keep in mind God has the entiree master plan and he sees years ahead in our life when we only see the current struggle.

one question: i mentioned before how i have trouble with not exeriencing emotions and feelings . the othernight a freind and I were praying in a group and as he started to pray for me I got "goosebumps" I actually felt something. that night when i was at home praying before bed I felt it again. Is that what people mean when they "feel" God's prescence. its not something ive expereiced much if at all before in terms of a "feeling". My best freind who is a christian said he has had the same feeling in the same context.

theres something id like to discuss here that i havent discussed with anyone but id rather do it privatly if anyone cares to listen (prefferebly someone who is married)

Optimistic, thanks for posting this. I know exactly where you are coming from and how you feel. Like you, I have learned just to let the thoughts pass, but then I start thinking "well, do I really FEEL like a Christian? Do I FEEL like I believe?" I think part of my problem is that prior to OCD attacking my beliefs, I relied on feeling as part of my faith. Now that I am getting better and better at letting the thoughts pass through, I still find myself searching for that "feeling" that will somehow tell me that I really believe and I'm really saved. The problem is, feelings are like lost keys - when we go searching for them, we can't seem to find them. That happens with me when I try to find the feeling to see if I really believe, like somehow my feelings are going to hold this "yes" or "no" answer. But it's exactly like lost keys - when I go searching for this feeling, it's never there, and it just creates more doubt, hence OCD being called the doubting disease.

Like you, in the past I have felt God's presence. And much like my OCD revolving around my relationships, I once just "knew" that I believed, and it was never a question. It was without a doubt. And I feel forever changed now that OCD has attacked my faith. I worry that I will never get back to the point of always believing and never doubting, always having strong faith and never questioning. I don't feel like a Christian anymore. I know what I want to believe and I know that I want to be saved, but I can't connect the right feelings with that.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for posting this. I am right where you are, my friend. I still can't help but think that God really wants us to focus on having a faith ground in Scripture rather than how we are feeling at the moment. I wish that it was easier said than done. I fear I will never get back to that point, but I know that God holds me in the palm of his hand, and with his help, I can get there, and so can you.

 

[OptimisticSmile]

I was taking a shower a while back and I got this urge to look up Romans 8:24 which I had no idea what it said .

it says "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth , why doth he yet hope for."

if we always had a feeling that said we are secure then that would eliminate the need for faith. Faith means that we must endure and hope even when we feel hopeless because our hope is unseen. When Christ returns then we will be completely free from doubt and the feelings an security will always be there. 1 corinthians 13 talks about faith , hope and love with the greatest amoung them being love. why is love the greatest of them ? Because it endures forever wheras there will no longer be a need of faith and hope because we will be living with Jesus. Ill be honest im nervous about his return but im hoping at his return I will be changed and will never have to worry about doubt .

 

[BeccaLynn]

I have gone to a pastor friend over and over again for reassurance. Yet, I didn't really believe what he was telling me when he said that I was saved. I kept thinking I knew inside that I wasn't and that I would be the one answering for myself before God, not him. I have been so terrified before thinking about Jesus's return that I could hardly sleep. I have found that talking with my pastor friend, who is VERY patient, and reading posts on this sight have made it much easier to allow the thoughts to just pass on. Sometimes verses have come to my mind before also, without me knowing what they have said until looking them up, that have encouraged me. But sometimes, I've been driven to read the Bible and look up verses that come to my mind and they end up having nothing to do with what I'm going through. That's when I just end up attributing them to the OCD, which has seemed in the past to often drive me to be obsessive about reading the Bible. I've struggled also wondering if I've ever felt God's presence and asking my husband what it's like. I guess it can be a different experience for each individual. It can be so discouraging looking around my church and seeing the look of peace and joy some have, thinking that I've never experienced that and fearing I never will. I've had goosebumps and tears before, but have wondered if it's just an emotional response that has nothing to do with God. Since the OCD nature is to question things, I guess that those thoughts can be expected. I think back when I read how God came to someone in the Bible in a whisper (Something like, "God wasn't in the wind or the thunder"). Although I don't remember exactly right now, and don't have my Bible with me presently to look it up, it shows that sometimes God doesn't come in the "loud" ways that some others experience, but can come softly as well (like maybe chillbumps). I think I'm speaking to myself as well as you.
God Bless You!
Rebecca

 

[OptimisticSmile]

beccalyne what you described about your pastor reassuring you is like my experience. My pastor said he normally would not tell someone they are saved but with me he felt so confident that he could. he told me im not really doubting in my heart but in my mind, it is the flesh. However , there was always that one thing thinking deep inside that I wasnt as well .


a while back mom said that all joy had left me and i looked so lifeless when she looked into my eyes. Today we discussed this and she now says that she sees life in my eyes again.

its encouraging. tonight in the bible study im in we went over the passage with blaphesmy of the Holy Spirit. as you would expect it made me a little anxious. im thinking what if ive never really accepted christ and what if in the past months i told myself i was never going to . when i was the most bothered with doubt i reached the point of thinking i was completely hopeless and that I was not one of the elect. when God did some cool things to reassure me and I started to think probabilities in my mind I wondered if God was showing me these things to reveal himself and I didnt believe like the pharasees didnt believe despite the things God showed them through Christs miracicles. i was so bothered by it thinking that mabye that was Gods last attempt to get me to not doubt and i still doubted.

any help with that would be appreciated.

 

[BeccaLynn]

I have feared so many times that I'm like the Pharisees. Like the Bible says when it talks about those who are always hearing the truth but never believing. I've not really felt like God has been telling me it's my last chance to believe He has saved me, but there have been numerous times that I've feared that God has been trying to tell me that "it's my last chance to get things right". That feeling, instead of making me hungry to know God, has left me frozen in a state of panicky fear. If I understand what you said correctly, you meant that you were concerned that since God had tried unsuccessfully so many times to reveal Himself to you and to prove you were His, that He is finished trying show you that you're safe and belong to Him? Maybe that He's angry with you for still struggling to believe your salvation is secure? I can kind of identify, yet my struggle is that I feel God has shown me over and over again that it's not just a feeling that I'm having, it's the truth. Yet, there have been other times when I know He's ministered hope to me when I've been completely hopeless. Sometimes I really don't know what is me and what I should blame on the OCD. What you said in a previous post about a man ministering at your church about his struggle with salvation, and your friend struggling as well does seem that God has put others in your life who can minister to you since they know exactly where you're coming from, and also people to whom you yourself can minister to as well. For so long, I felt no one could possibly understand. I had never heard of anyone struggling as I had and have, and felt kind of "picked on" by God I guess to even be dealing with this. I can tell myself in my mind that this isn't true, but it sure feels that way sometimes. I definitely don't think that God is fed up with trying to calm your fears and let you know you are secure in His hands. He's not like we humans are. Even at our best, we can be easily angered and tired of dealing with certain things and people. God doesn't respond as we do. When you look in the back of your Bible in the concordance, there are so many scriptures on the love of God. I noticed that recently. A whole lot more on the love of God than God's anger or wrath. I don't think God ever gives up on us. It's like the fears and guilt that come with OCD can be endless, yet so much of it involves our faith. I used to see people who would get saved, yet just seem to take it so lightly. They might have that secure "knowing that they know" they're in right relationship with God, yet they would just seem to take it for granted. Maybe they would come to church every now and again, yet not really seem intent on living for God. I have felt angry and jealous over how they could just seem to simply place their trust in Jesus, no doubting, then seem to take their relationship with Him so lightly. I have thought before that if I could feel that peace, knowing where I have been in not having that "right feeling", that it would be the most wonderful thing in the world to me. I do know that there's been times before when I have felt that God knows I'm not going to get it right and He's angry at me for just "not getting it". I've felt before like He's given up on me. Yet, sometimes I think our fears can cause us to look over the many ways that God shows us every day, even in little ways, that He's right here for us. God's not given up on you believing. I know it's so much easier for someone to tell you that than it is for you ro believe for yourself. Maybe you feel as if He's wanting you to get beyond this so that you can grow in Him. It is hard to grow spiritually when we question whether we are even His. I think God does want us to get beyond this, yet He knows our innermost being. He created us and we are marvelously made. He's not going to give up on His most prized creation. I believe you are His, yet I know that it's not my saying it that brings you confidence. We so want to have that confidence for ouselves that we feel God has put there. I guess that's just where we have to read the Bible and go by what He says instead of what we feel. He has said He will never leave or forsake us. I used to daydream about being in a church service and the minister having a "word from God' for me. I would imagine things like him telling me that God wanted me to know that I was His. I thought that if something like that happened, then I wouldn't doubt anymore. But it's never happened that way. But God has revealed Himself to me in other ways. The feeling of fakeness and struggle over thinking I'm not really sincere in my Christian walk bothers me a lot. I think somehow we always think we've failed God. But if anything, our failure should just make it all the clearer that we can't do this alone and that God doesn't expect us to.

Rebecca

 

[BeccaLynn]

I have feared so many times that I'm like the Pharisees. Like the Bible says when it talks about those who are always hearing the truth but never believing. I've not really felt like God has been telling me it's my last chance to believe He has saved me, but there have been numerous times that I've feared that God has been trying to tell me that "it's my last chance to get things right". That feeling, instead of making me hungry to know God, has left me frozen in a state of panicky fear. If I understand what you said correctly, you meant that you were concerned that since God had tried unsuccessfully so many times to reveal Himself to you and to prove you were His, that He is finished trying show you that you're safe and belong to Him? Maybe that He's angry with you for still struggling to believe your salvation is secure? I can kind of identify, yet my struggle is that I feel God has shown me over and over again that it's not just a feeling that I'm having, it's the truth. Yet, there have been other times when I know He's ministered hope to me when I've been completely hopeless. Sometimes I really don't know what is me and what I should blame on the OCD. What you said in a previous post about a man ministering at your church about his struggle with salvation, and your friend struggling as well does seem that God has put others in your life who can minister to you since they know exactly where you're coming from, and also people to whom you yourself can minister to as well. For so long, I felt no one could possibly understand. I had never heard of anyone struggling as I had and have, and felt kind of "picked on" by God I guess to even be dealing with this. I can tell myself in my mind that this isn't true, but it sure feels that way sometimes. I definitely don't think that God is fed up with trying to calm your fears and let you know you are secure in His hands. He's not like we humans are. Even at our best, we can be easily angered and tired of dealing with certain things and people. God doesn't respond as we do. When you look in the back of your Bible in the concordance, there are so many scriptures on the love of God. I noticed that recently. A whole lot more on the love of God than God's anger or wrath. I don't think God ever gives up on us. It's like the fears and guilt that come with OCD can be endless, yet so much of it involves our faith. I used to see people who would get saved, yet just seem to take it so lightly. They might have that secure "knowing that they know" they're in right relationship with God, yet they would just seem to take it for granted. Maybe they would come to church every now and again, yet not really seem intent on living for God. I have felt angry and jealous over how they could just seem to simply place their trust in Jesus, no doubting, then seem to take their relationship with Him so lightly. I have thought before that if I could feel that peace, knowing where I have been in not having that "right feeling", that it would be the most wonderful thing in the world to me. I do know that there's been times before when I have felt that God knows I'm not going to get it right and He's angry at me for just "not getting it". I've felt before like He's given up on me. Yet, sometimes I think our fears can cause us to look over the many ways that God shows us every day, even in little ways, that He's right here for us. God's not given up on you believing. I know it's so much easier for someone to tell you that than it is for you ro believe for yourself. Maybe you feel as if He's wanting you to get beyond this so that you can grow in Him. It is hard to grow spiritually when we question whether we are even His. I think God does want us to get beyond this, yet He knows our innermost being. He created us and we are marvelously made. He's not going to give up on His most prized creation. I believe you are His, yet I know that it's not my saying it that brings you confidence. We so want to have that confidence for ouselves that we feel God has put there. I guess that's just where we have to read the Bible and go by what He says instead of what we feel. He has said He will never leave or forsake us. I used to daydream about being in a church service and the minister having a "word from God' for me. I would imagine things like him telling me that God wanted me to know that I was His. I thought that if something like that happened, then I wouldn't doubt anymore. But it's never happened that way. But God has revealed Himself to me in other ways. The feeling of fakeness and struggle over thinking I'm not really sincere in my Christian walk bothers me a lot. I think somehow we always think we've failed God. But if anything, our failure should just make it all the clearer that we can't do this alone and that God doesn't expect us to.

Rebecca

 

[BeccaLynn]

Oops! I didn't mean to post the same response twice! I had written so much that I went back and made the text smaller. Yet, I missed some words and some were larger text than the others. However, instead of fixing it I ended up posting it again. Sometimes I struggle with perfectionism too!

Rebecca

 

[OptimisticSmile]

one thing that helps me is to understand the nature of God. Back when I was at my worst my concept of God was messed up and I began to view salvation as something God was toying with me with by placing me in a christian home and in a solid church and giving me a desire to have a relationship with him yet not allowing me it. To me that is a mesed up view of God. He wants us to know him, he wouold not denie us salvation if we come to him humbly and with a broken and contrite heart of which he will not despise. So I remind myself that the concept of God I have in the worst of doubting is not the real nature of God.

Beccalynn, you grew up in church like me. there is a character in the bible who was one of the first to. His name was Timothy and if you look into the book of 2nd Timothy you will see that he was apprehensive about things too. growing up in the church is a huge challenge for alot of christians because salvation and Christ are all they know. Alot of the bible was written before the church even came about and Timothy is one of the first christain to grow up in the faith and to know Christ at an early age. Studies show that earlier a person accepts christ the more like he is to doubt salvation. the point is I read things like passing from darkness to light, and leaving a past of sin but for me as a child accepting christ at age 6 that doesnt neccesarily fit my experience. keep in mind the concept for such passages were reffering to the emerging church and adults. growing up in church we are prevented from straying too far and becoming worldly. I believe the farther a person goes from the truth the more God has to draw them back.


What I was thinking of messaging you married people about was about relationships. I know some of you recognize God leading you into marriage as being something that helped you not doubt God so much. there is someone that I believe God may be leading me into a freindship with and it has long been prayed for and I believe the person fits into the framework of what I wrote in my journal months ago about what I desire in a female companion. It seeems we have alot in common and are headed in the same direction with future ministry work.when I describe it to my best freind he gets goosebumps. However because of doubting I sometimes am like "Gods not bringing things together" and sometimes I feel like "she would deserve someone stronger in their faith" etc. I do not want to place too much hope in finding assurence in that because it could turn out to be nothing in the long run and we still have a long way to get to know each other. Basically Im attracted to the idea that she could be in ministry with me but I have not gotten to know her enough to know if I like her for her.

a prayed with her one night and then I left feeling like mabye I wasnt being genuine in prayer but was just trying to impress her and that bugged me because I do believe I was genuine.

 

[HeatherG]

one thing that helps me is to understand the nature of God. Back when I was at my worst my concept of God was messed up and I began to view salvation as something God was toying with me with by placing me in a christian home and in a solid church and giving me a desire to have a relationship with him yet not allowing me it. To me that is a mesed up view of God. He wants us to know him, he wouold not denie us salvation if we come to him humbly and with a broken and contrite heart of which he will not despise. So I remind myself that the concept of God I have in the worst of doubting is not the real nature of God.

Beccalynn, you grew up in church like me. there is a character in the bible who was one of the first to. His name was Timothy and if you look into the book of 2nd Timothy you will see that he was apprehensive about things too. growing up in the church is a huge challenge for alot of christians because salvation and Christ are all they know. Alot of the bible was written before the church even came about and Timothy is one of the first christain to grow up in the faith and to know Christ at an early age. Studies show that earlier a person accepts christ the more like he is to doubt salvation. the point is I read things like passing from darkness to light, and leaving a past of sin but for me as a child accepting christ at age 6 that doesnt neccesarily fit my experience. keep in mind the concept for such passages were reffering to the emerging church and adults. growing up in church we are prevented from straying too far and becoming worldly. I believe the farther a person goes from the truth the more God has to draw them back.


What I was thinking of messaging you married people about was about relationships. I know some of you recognize God leading you into marriage as being something that helped you not doubt God so much. there is someone that I believe God may be leading me into a freindship with and it has long been prayed for and I believe the person fits into the framework of what I wrote in my journal months ago about what I desire in a female companion. It seeems we have alot in common and are headed in the same direction with future ministry work.when I describe it to my best freind he gets goosebumps. However because of doubting I sometimes am like "Gods not bringing things together" and sometimes I feel like "she would deserve someone stronger in their faith" etc. I do not want to place too much hope in finding assurence in that because it could turn out to be nothing in the long run and we still have a long way to get to know each other. Basically Im attracted to the idea that she could be in ministry with me but I have not gotten to know her enough to know if I like her for her.

a prayed with her one night and then I left feeling like mabye I wasnt being genuine in prayer but was just trying to impress her and that bugged me because I do believe I was genuine.

Hi Smiley,

It's great that you are really seeking God about your possible future relationship. I would say, just get to know the girl first as a friend and see where it goes from there. It's way too early to know if she is "the one" until you know her better and she knows you. Asking her on a date doesn't mean you are committing to her for the rest of your life. Keep God at the centre as you are already doing and you can't go wrong!

God bless,
Heather