Necessity of evil

[pc_76]

So a large part of what makes us human is that we can feel sadness, anger, happiness, and that imperfections create challenges and motivations for us. On the other hand, I acknowledge that there is a lot of evil and sin that is really unnecessary like mass man-made catastrophe or genocide. God even doesn't want to intervene with the free will of people to commit mass crime or genocide, but the average person below isn't exactly "free" to escape from that.

Is it also plausible for God to be able to or will to stop the free will of a few people (usually a few rich people in very high places that are not good people) while not interfering with the free will of the rest of his individuals? That would be a nicer world to live in.

 

[zippy2006]

From a Christian perspective it is surely true that God intervenes to lessen evil.

 

[HTacianas]

So a large part of what makes us human is that we can feel sadness, anger, happiness, and that imperfections create challenges and motivations for us. On the other hand, I acknowledge that there is a lot of evil and sin that is really unnecessary like mass man-made catastrophe or genocide. God even doesn't want to intervene with the free will of people to commit mass crime or genocide, but the average person below isn't exactly "free" to escape from that.

Is it also plausible for God to be able to or will to stop the free will of a few people (usually a few rich people in very high places that are not good people) while not interfering with the free will of the rest of his individuals? That would be a nicer world to live in.

If you'd like to save yourself a headache or two, forget the "God does not interfere in people's free will" answer to the problem of evil. It's something of a catch-all or cop-out answer some people give when they don't have an answer to the question.

That being said, we do not know if or when God "interferes" with a person's free will or when He doesn't. The bible is filled with examples of God doing just that. We see murders committed every day and ask why God didn't move to stop them. But we do not know how many murders God did in fact stop. So to answer your question, we do not know. And since we don't know, we may well have a nice world to live in because it would that much worse without it.

 

[disciple Clint]

So a large part of what makes us human is that we can feel sadness, anger, happiness, and that imperfections create challenges and motivations for us. On the other hand, I acknowledge that there is a lot of evil and sin that is really unnecessary like mass man-made catastrophe or genocide. God even doesn't want to intervene with the free will of people to commit mass crime or genocide, but the average person below isn't exactly "free" to escape from that.

Is it also plausible for God to be able to or will to stop the free will of a few people (usually a few rich people in very high places that are not good people) while not interfering with the free will of the rest of his individuals? That would be a nicer world to live in.

Nothing happens unless God allows it to happen and God uses all things for good therefore we have to believe that even those things that seem terrible to us result in something good.

 

[Mark Quayle]

So a large part of what makes us human is that we can feel sadness, anger, happiness, and that imperfections create challenges and motivations for us. On the other hand, I acknowledge that there is a lot of evil and sin that is really unnecessary like mass man-made catastrophe or genocide. God even doesn't want to intervene with the free will of people to commit mass crime or genocide, but the average person below isn't exactly "free" to escape from that.

Is it also plausible for God to be able to or will to stop the free will of a few people (usually a few rich people in very high places that are not good people) while not interfering with the free will of the rest of his individuals? That would be a nicer world to live in.

What makes you think anything that comes to pass is unnecessary, when God uses all things for good? Further, since we know logically and biblically that God is First Cause, EVERYTHING that comes to pass subsequent to his creation is caused as a result of that creation.

Yes, God restrains evil constantly. It is one of the common graces. Those not born again are wicked to the core —everything they do is with a heart at enmity with God— but God does not allow the wicked to become as depraved as they would be, were he to remove the restraints.

 

[Robban]

Psalms 58:3-4

 

[Robban]

So a large part of what makes us human is that we can feel sadness, anger, happiness, and that imperfections create challenges and motivations for us. On the other hand, I acknowledge that there is a lot of evil and sin that is really unnecessary like mass man-made catastrophe or genocide. God even doesn't want to intervene with the free will of people to commit mass crime or genocide, but the average person below isn't exactly "free" to escape from that.

Is it also plausible for God to be able to or will to stop the free will of a few people (usually a few rich people in very high places that are not good people) while not interfering with the free will of the rest of his individuals? That would be a nicer world to live in.

Nothing just happens.

Here a piece that may help to put one's trust in the Almighty's word.

"Who ever gets angry, it is as if he worshipped idols".
(Zohar 1, 27b)
Why?
Because at the time of his anger,
his faith has left him.

For were he to believe that what happened was God's doing,

he would not be angry at all.
For although it is a person possessed of free choice that is cursing him,
or striking him, or causing damage to his property------

and it is accountable according to the laws of man and the laws of heaven for his evil choice...........
nevertheless, as regards the person harmed, this (incident) was already decreed in heaven,

And "God has many agents"
(to carry out the decree)


Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liadi.


Take it or leave it.

 

[Blade]

So a large part of what makes us human is that we can feel sadness, anger, happiness, and that imperfections create challenges and motivations for us. On the other hand, I acknowledge that there is a lot of evil and sin that is really unnecessary like mass man-made catastrophe or genocide. God even doesn't want to intervene with the free will of people to commit mass crime or genocide, but the average person below isn't exactly "free" to escape from that.

Is it also plausible for God to be able to or will to stop the free will of a few people (usually a few rich people in very high places that are not good people) while not interfering with the free will of the rest of his individuals? That would be a nicer world to live in.

This is a fallen world and the enemys time is just about up...it won't be long. The closer Christ comes the worse this world will get

 

[eleos1954]

So a large part of what makes us human is that we can feel sadness, anger, happiness, and that imperfections create challenges and motivations for us. On the other hand, I acknowledge that there is a lot of evil and sin that is really unnecessary like mass man-made catastrophe or genocide. God even doesn't want to intervene with the free will of people to commit mass crime or genocide, but the average person below isn't exactly "free" to escape from that.

Is it also plausible for God to be able to or will to stop the free will of a few people (usually a few rich people in very high places that are not good people) while not interfering with the free will of the rest of his individuals? That would be a nicer world to live in.

Sin isn't a necessity ... it is a result of the fall of mankind ..... separation from God .... and yes, we experience the consequences of sin .... whether our own .... or from the sins of others ..... Jesus promises He will go through all our earthly tribulations with us ..... helps us to endure whatever happens .... and this will continue until He returns

 

[Mark Quayle]

Sin isn't a necessity ... it is a result of the fall of mankind ..... separation from God .... and yes, we experience the consequences of sin .... whether our own .... or from the sins of others ..... Jesus promises He will go through all our earthly tribulations with us ..... helps us to endure whatever happens .... and this will continue until He returns

So, the fact that there is sin —do you consider it a mistake on God's part that allowed it, was it unforeseen and God is powerless to stop it?

—Or maybe God intended it, so that he could redeem us and demonstrate his justice, power, wisdom, mercy and love?

 

[Divide]

Nothing happens unless God allows it to happen and God uses all things for good therefore we have to believe that even those things that seem terrible to us result in something good.

Good point. God sometimes allows some bad things to happen to us to test us in some way to see what we will choose with our free will. I have set before you life and death therefore choose wisely.

Good judgement come from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement! One thing always happens after any bad situation happens, we learn something very well. Experience is the best teacher.

This earth is the University of Brotherly Love. very tough college where there are many dropouts. Understandably so, learn to love, but everyone is ready to fight. Learn to love? But there is hate everywhere. 80% of everything you've ever been taught were lies! But that's ok though, because we know it is a school and these are tests. SO in every situation in this life, it is, What is the lesson here Lord and how would ye that I solve this problem? Protection has been promised so no wonder we are able to walk through this valley of the shadow of death with no fear!

 

[jayem]

I’m not a religious believer. Most religious doctrines (of all world religions—not just Christianity) don’t make logical sense to me. Here’s a question: Other than faith, how can anyone know that God is good? We all observe that both good and evil exist in the world. The kind and compassionate often suffer, while the wicked prosper. Why wouldn’t it be possible that God is dualistic—sometimes benevolent, sometimes malevolent? Or maybe there are 2 God’s—one good, one evil, who are in constant struggle with each other. I know this is unscriptural. But maybe the Biblical depiction of God as inherently good was a product of God’s evil side, and was intended to cause confusion. Other than faith (and I won’t argue with faith) there’s no way to objectively determine anything about God’s moral nature.

And of course, neither can it be unarguably determined that any kind of god or gods even exist.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Here’s a question: Other than faith, how can anyone know that God is good?

Because it's logical that the Omnipotent would have no reason to create anything, (nevermind, ALL things), merely for the sake of torment and suffering. That would be boring. But GOODNESS, opens up a door to wonderfulness, to include the People of God, sharing in his beauty and glory.

Or, to put it in mathematical terms, Goodness is a positive absolute value. Badness, meanness, evil, etc, is not a negative absolute value, but mere 0. As some theologians have carefully put it, not a negation of good, but a privation of good.

Goodness is not defined by evil, but evil gets it meaning from goodness.

 

[eleos1954]

So, the fact that there is sin —do you consider it a mistake on God's part that allowed it, was it unforeseen and God is powerless to stop it?

—Or maybe God intended it, so that he could redeem us and demonstrate his justice, power, wisdom, mercy and love?

no ... the greatest gift God could give to his intelligent created beings (including the angels) is free choice .... it's about true love .... true love can not be forced ... it MUST be a choice (God knows this - we know this). Adam & Eve had choice .... throughout history all people have been put in the position of choice and will continue ... until His return.

God's foreknowledge ... He knew (and knows) what choices people will make ... but He does not make their choices for them.

This is why the plan of salvation was put into place before creation .... God knew/knows what choices people would make for themselves.

 

[eleos1954]

So a large part of what makes us human is that we can feel sadness, anger, happiness, and that imperfections create challenges and motivations for us. On the other hand, I acknowledge that there is a lot of evil and sin that is really unnecessary like mass man-made catastrophe or genocide. God even doesn't want to intervene with the free will of people to commit mass crime or genocide, but the average person below isn't exactly "free" to escape from that.

Is it also plausible for God to be able to or will to stop the free will of a few people (usually a few rich people in very high places that are not good people) while not interfering with the free will of the rest of his individuals? That would be a nicer world to live in.

Being free is knowing the truth of God's word.

All have and do sin .... and all experience consequences of sin one way or another .... and His word states very clearly that will be the case.

Sin is sin .... there is nobody that is good.

Romans 3:10

9What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin. 10As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one.

Nobody is better than the other .... all have sinned.

 

[Mark Quayle]

no ... the greatest gift God could give to his intelligent created beings (including the angels) is free choice .... it's about true love .... true love can not be forced ... it MUST be a choice (God knows this - we know this). Adam & Eve had choice .... throughout history all people have been put in the position of choice and will continue ... until His return.

God's foreknowledge ... He knew (and knows) what choices people will make ... but He does not make their choices for them.

This is why the plan of salvation was put into place before creation .... God knew/knows what choices people would make for themselves.

You speak as though we are on an even operating level with God; as though we are in and of ourselves SOMEBODY to be reckoned with; as though we are the same persons one day as we are a year later, unchanged; as though we are complete beings, not vessels for his purposes, to be completed when we see him as he is, when "the sons of God are revealed".

But such is the mind of self-determinism.

 

[Robban]

Being free is knowing the truth of God's word.

All have and do sin .... and all experience consequences of sin one way or another .... and His word states very clearly that will be the case.

Sin is sin .... there is nobody that is good.

Romans 3:10

9What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin. 10As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one.

Nobody is better than the other .... all have sinned.

Psalms 14 and Psalms 53 almost identical wording.

Ps 14 is concerning Nebuchadnezzar who was destined to enter the Temple and destroy it
with not one (man) of all his armies protesting against him.

Ps 53 is concerning Titus when he cut the curtain and his sword was dripping with blood
he said he had killed (God) Himself.
(Rashi)

How depressing, painting with a broad brush because of two events.

 

[Robban]

Psalms 14 and Psalms 53 almost identical wording.

Ps 14 is concerning Nebuchadnezzar who was destined to enter the Temple and destroy it
with not one (man) of all his armies protesting against him.

Ps 53 is concerning Titus when he cut the curtain and his sword was dripping with blood
he said he had killed (God) Himself.
(Rashi)

How depressing, painting with a broad brush because of two events.

Psalms 14 and Psalms 53 almost identical wording.

Ps 14 is concerning Nebuchadnezzar who was destined to enter the Temple and destroy it
with not one (man) of all his armies protesting against him.
2:10
Ps 53 is concerning Titus when he cut the curtain and his sword was dripping with blood
he said he had killed (God) Himself.
(Rashi)

How depressing, painting with a broad brush because of two events.

PS, Romans 3:10 is a so called paralell to Ps 14 and Ps 53.

 

[jayem]

Because it's logical that the Omnipotent would have no reason to create anything, (nevermind, ALL things), merely for the sake of torment and suffering. That would be boring. But GOODNESS, opens up a door to wonderfulness, to include the People of God, sharing in his beauty and glory.

That's not true. Consider a bratty little kid who builds a sand castle on the beach just for the fun of tearing it down. He acts constructively, in order to exercise his destructive impulses. The same is true if God was morally dualistic. The world would be exactly as we see it-- a mixture of good and evil. Belief that God is not only benevolent, but the highest expression of benevolence, can't be logically supported by observation. It's a supposition based on faith in scripture and religious doctrine.

As I said earlier, I won't argue with faith. But here's a question: Is there a logical reason why God would allow 230,000 people--men, women, and children--which no doubt included many vacationing American and European Christians--to die in the Dec. 26, 2004 tsunami that devastated Indonesia, Malaysia, the Maldives, Myanmar, Thailand, and other parts of southern Asia? What lesson or message would God be conveying to us? Don't visit coastal Asia?

 

[Mark Quayle]

That's not true. Consider a bratty little kid who builds a sand castle on the beach just for the fun of tearing it down. He acts constructively, in order to exercise his destructive impulses. The same is true if God was morally dualistic. The world would be exactly as we see it-- a mixture of good and evil. Belief that God is not only benevolent, but the highest expression of benevolence, can't be logically supported by observation. It's a supposition based on faith in scripture and religious doctrine.

As I said earlier, I won't argue with faith. But here's a question: Is there a logical reason why God would allow 230,000 people--men, women, and children--which no doubt included many vacationing American and European Christians--to die in the Dec. 26, 2004 tsunami that devastated Indonesia, Malaysia, the Maldives, Myanmar, Thailand, and other parts of southern Asia? What lesson or message would God be conveying to us? Don't visit coastal Asia?

The bratty little kid is not omniscient nor omnipotent.

Yes, there's a logical reason that God not only allows, but CAUSES, such devastation, and, frankly, even worse terrors and suffering, which does have to do with Scripture, so you might call it faith, and no need to pursue at this point. But it is logical.

But if God was ill-meant toward his creation, he would not only subject it to suffering, but utter hopelessness. And that would be no fun for an ill-meaning omnipotent. Such a creation would be meaningless to such an omnipotent. Boring.

To me, though, it seems important to note that OUR notions of benevolence are not his. We define what we see by how we feel about it, and by how we interpret meaning. But we are just about as clueless as puppies in a brain surgery theatre.