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Do you then believe that you have always existed?
You've seen babies that didn't previously exist, come to exist and other people who did exist, cease to exist. Are you unable to infer your own previous and eventual non-existence from this?
ETA: Nevermind - I see now that you've already gone over this and do not infer your own eventual non-existence from your previous non-existence even though you accept your previous non-existence. But do you see how others do make that inference?
Of course I realize that. I don't think I eternaly exist, I have a beginning but no end.
Only God eternaly exists.
We believe we will live forever because God said so.
I see no reason to think that just because I came into existence at some point in the finite past that therefore it logically follows that I will cease to exist at some point in the future.
Well you just told me in your last post that non-existence isn't "true".
Now you're telling me that you didn't exist at one point...in other words, you were non-existent.
So clearly, non-existence is not only true, but it's possible. Yet the ability to exist forever has no basis in reality...so what does that tell you?
There's no evidence that anything existed eternally before you were born...so what exactly are you referring to?Before I existed there was eternal existence which would mean after I die there is eternal existence. So yes I'm saying I believe non-existence is impossible.
So what does he see when he sees a corpse?Chriliman sees reality differently than Ana even though there is one reality.
So you aren´t - unlike you claimed - having or speaking from this perspective.I would have to assume the perspective of death because I'm not dead yet.
There's no evidence that anything existed eternally before you were born...so what exactly are you referring to?
So you aren´t - unlike you claimed - having or speaking from this perspective.
Sure there is. It appears that the universe could have existed eternaly. I don't believe it did because it has an apparent beginning, which means what was before was eternal existence that caused the universe. So again it's reasonable to believe non-existence is impossible.
No, I don´t have to, and this is not a response to what I wrote.You assume you will non-exist when you die, so when thinking about this you have to assume non-existence for yourself.
I'll attempt to explain what I'm saying about existence vs non-existence after death using an analogy.
So you are saying you have the blindfold off and therefore see things that I - having the blindfold on - can´t see?Imagine you are brought into a dark room where you can't see anything and then someone puts a blindfold on you and has you sit in a chair. You're in complete darkness and someone tells you that they're going to turn on the light. They say the light is on, but tell you that you can't take the blindfold off in order to varify that it is in fact on. At this point you're still in complete darkness. Are you going to believe the lights on, when you can't see that it's on?
In the analogy above, the darkness is existence before death and the light would be non-existence after death.
Now let's say the same thing happens, but this time the persan says to you that if you believe he'll turn the light on then he will and he'll let you take the blindfold off. So you agree to believe he'll turn the light on and he does. He then tells you to take the blindfold off since you believed him and what you see in the light is absolutely amazing.
In this analogy the darkness is existence before death and the light is existence after death. Just required belief in something that made sense.
Is that what you are claiming? Something about you having special abilities and powers? And that´s what all your "arguments" come down to?
So what is it that you see when you spend a couple of weeks in one room with a corpse?
Anyway, what is it with you and trying to explain the obvious and undisputed (that something has existed before I was born and will exist after I die), when the claim in discussion is your idea that you will exist after death? How are you planning to get from one to the other?
You assume you will non-exist when you die, so when thinking about this you have to assume non-existence for yourself.
I'll attempt to explain what I'm saying about existence vs non-existence after death using an analogy.
Imagine you are brought into a dark room where you can't see anything and then someone puts a blindfold on you and has you sit in a chair. You're in complete darkness and someone tells you that they're going to turn on the light. They say the light is on, but tell you that you can't take the blindfold off in order to varify that it is in fact on. At this point you're still in complete darkness. Are you going to believe the lights on, when you can't see that it's on?
In the analogy above, the darkness is existence before death and the light would be non-existence after death.
Now let's say the same thing happens, but this time the persan says to you that if you believe he'll turn the light on then he will and he'll let you take the blindfold off. So you agree to believe he'll turn the light on and he does. He then tells you to take the blindfold off since you believed him and what you see in the light is absolutely amazing.
In this analogy the darkness is existence before death and the light is existence after death. Just required belief in something that made sense.
Initially, you spoke about your perspective. But you are forgetting quickly, I know that already.I'm talking about your existence from your perspective, not something or someone els's existence. Anyway, take the analogy for what its worth to you, if you still don't understand, that's fine for now.
These are both poor analogies because you have the ability to test if the light is on in both scenarios. The second is especially poor since taking the blindfold off with the light on will give you access to knowledge that you couldn't have before.
Initially, you spoke about your perspective. But you are forgetting quickly, I know that already.
So basically, even though you know it's possible not to exist...you believe a 2000 year old book from a Jewish cult that says you'll exist forever.
That about right?
"If" being the key word.With regards to the part about a 2000 year old book, please remember that the bible is a collection of books, letters, historical records, poetry, biographies, etc. etc. And that just because these pieces of literature were written and compiled a long time ago, it does not necessarily follow that they cannot be relied upon to present us with truth.
If God has spoken on this issue and has said that we shall live forever in either one of two places, then this fact would not be rendered any less factual by the passage of time.
Right."If" being the key word.
"If."Right.
If God has spoken then what He has said is no less true by virtue of the passage of many centuries.
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