Near death experiences—Can we learn anything from them?

[sandman]

I would add one more to your list because it’s tough to categorize without hearing the experience's.

#4 Would be ….does it line up with the Word of God. Keeping in mind that God can go above and beyond what His Word states…but, He or the experience will never contradict the Word.

With that said.... I have read some experiences that contradict the Word …but were right in line with what the person believed (religion wise). MY thought (and I have no proof of this) is the mind (brain) is a complex organ. And I believe that they literally see what they have in their brain and what they believe....

I have had two incidents in my life. Once getting shot and the other…. a horrific accident with a semi rear ending me at 80 mph on I-10. Even worse, I had my head sticking out the window to see why traffic had stopped. Being shot I was not a believer …I will not tell you what I saw.

The accident I was a believer ….One of the guys (Chris) who worked for me was on the frontage road where traffic had been diverted to (also a believer) pulled over, and although he could not see my vehicle from the frontage road, he felt compelled to walk up the hill to the accident where they were trying to extricate me, I had no vitals. Amazingly he was able to walk right through police and fire dept right to me and ministered healing to me…
I saw Chris from the time he got out of the car until he reached me.

One other thing along those lines. When my daughter was two she fell into a hole head first and broke her neck. I had pulled her out and lay her on the ground where she died. We had called 911, but we were living in the Catalina Mts in AZ, a half hour from emergency services. We were both flipping out and I stood back and saw what I believe was a vision. It was as real as watching a TV show.
What I saw was our (my wife and I) 7 years of marriage our daughter being born and her life …then I was shown our marriage ending due to the death of our daughter…all within a split second. I walked over to our daughter who had been dead for about 25 min…. grabbed my wife’s hand knelt down and ministered to our daughter… thanking God for raising her up in the name of Jesus Christ. I was not calm …I was loud and freaking out. Three times I thanked God getting her up …on the 3rd time she opened her eyes and sat up…5 minutes later emergency services showed up ….She was perfectly normal.

I rarely ever share this. I know it’s something you would think someone would shout from the roof tops but it’s just something we have both kept close to our hearts with the quietness of God.

 

[Albion]

So let’s say someone has a near-death experience where they saw themselves from above while the doctors worked to revive them. If true, it tells us something about our spiritual beings.

That's right.

4. Would be ….does it line up with the Word of God. Keeping in mind that God can go above and beyond what His Word states…but, He or the experience will never contradict the Word.

With that said.... I have read some experiences that contradict the Word.

Yes. The answer to the first proposition is conditioned by whether the event that's reported is accurate or not...and couldn't be known otherwise by the person reporting it. There is no reason to think that there aren't also false accounts that have been given by people for a variety of different reasons.

 

[Saint Steven]

Is this what you are saying

We are born and are alive
We die but our spirit with our minds live on so the only thing that dies is the dust(body) and our mind never dies?
If that is what you are saying then you are immortal from birth.

then how does this fit into your theology
Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

I understand that the SDA do not believe in the immortality of the soul.
One of the references for the realm of the dead is found in Ecclesiastes chapter nine.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

 

[Derf]

That's right.


Yes. The answer to the first proposition is conditioned by whether the event that's reported is accurate or not...and couldn't be known otherwise by the person reporting it. There is no reason to think that there aren't also false accounts that have been given by people for a variety of different reasons.

There are ways someone can know something they didn’t witness—if some one else tells them about it or is able to plant a memory in their brain—perhaps falsely.

 

[Derf]

They would have to be evaluated against perceived motive, I suppose. The enemy seeks to steal and kill and destroy. Do the experiences do that?

They might. What if the experiences encourage an unbeliever that they are in keeping with God’s will, and therefore don’t need to change their belief? And they then share the happiness and joy they experienced with other unbelievers, which encourages further unbelief.

 

[Saint Steven]

They might. What if the experiences encourage an unbeliever that they are in keeping with God’s will, and therefore don’t need to change their belief? And they then share the happiness and joy they experienced with other unbelievers, which encourages further unbelief.

Are we saved by our beliefs? There are quite a broad spectrum of beliefs in Christianity. Which beliefs will save you? I thought only God could save?

 

[Francis Drake]

My wife was born in a none Christian family and at age 3yrs old had repeated 3rd heaven experiences.
It had nothing to do with NDE as she was perfectly healthy. With no parameters to compare, she called them think-dreams.
In these events she was taken out of her body like Paul and saw the Heavenly City with its gates of pearl, streets of gold, and walls of precious stones. She met the Lord and was taken various places in heaven to do various things.

Her parents laughed when she tried to talk about it and just treated it as childhood imagination, so she stopped talking about it.

Then at age 18, she was given a bible and read it from cover to cover, and that's when she read the description of the Heavenly city, and immediately knew it was the place she had visited as a child.

 

[Albion]

There are ways someone can know something they didn’t witness—if some one else tells them about it or is able to plant a memory in their brain—perhaps falsely.

...plus, of course, there are accounts that could be known from the person's memory or even guesswork.

If someone says that he was declared dead but was revived fifteen minutes later and, in the meantime, he saw Jesus and was told that love conquers all, that wouldn't prove anything.

But there are NDEs for which the story told is verifiable and could not have been known by the person except for an experience while dead (or having been pronounced dead).

 

[tturt]

There was a child about 5 at her post-op appointment who told the surgeon where he and others were standing during her surgery, how they were dressed including their "shoes," how the instruments were arranged, what was said. There had been a problem and she told him about that situation. He knew she was accurate and began to study NDEs. Said she was at the ceiling looking down.

If they see a bright light, it doesnt necessarily mean it was God. Because Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light (II COR 11:14). Why would that information be included unless we might need it ?

What are their lives like afterwards? Realizing that sometimes it takes awhile to process these NDEs.

For many, death is when they meet the medical definition, the natural one. But we're also spirit. (spirit, soul, and body (I Thess 5:23) .Luk16 account with Father Abraham and Lazarus. 26 "And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

We dont know when passing that great chasm happens. "For as the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26). For believers, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." (II Cor 5:8). Seems death is when both the spirit and soul leave the body permanently - God decides.

 

[Albion]

There was a child about 5 at her post-op appointment who told the surgeon where he and others were standing during her surgery, how they were dressed including their "shoes," how the instruments were arranged, what was said.

This sounds like something happening while the patient was under anesthesia, not dead or presumed dead.

 

[Derf]

...plus, of course, there are accounts that could be known from the person's memory or even guesswork.

If someone says that he was declared dead but was revived fifteen minutes later and, in the meantime, he saw Jesus and was told that love conquers all, that wouldn't prove anything.

But there are NDEs for which the story told is verifiable and could not have been known by the person except for an experience while dead (or having been pronounced dead).

Or except it was somehow revealed to them in a way others didn’t experience or understand.

I saw a panel discussion moderated by John Cleese (yes, of Monty Python fame!) talking about life after death. It started with NDEs, but quickly moved into other paranormal experiences.

it gave me the impression that the two are related, and if so, that makes the NDEs suspiciously close to demonic activity—at least some of it.

Here’s the link, but please be careful to test these spirits with the word of God.

 

[Albion]

It's not unusual for discussions about NDEs to wander into other paranormal events, and I regret that this does happen. However, I don't think the two are related except very loosely and it does a disservice to the subject of NDEs and to the legitimate researchers to start into that other stuff.

Of course, part of that is the fact that some of these other events may be demonic, but NDEs are apparently just events that don't have a certain explanation. They may point to life after death because there's no better explanation, but there's not much more that can be said about them.

 

[tturt]

Believers need to learn the difference between things God does and what the enemy does.

 

[Derf]

Believers need to learn the difference between things God does and what the enemy does.

How can we tell if NDEs are something God does vs something the enemy does?

 

[Derf]

It's not unusual for discussions about NDEs to wander into other paranormal events, and I regret that this does happen. However, I don't think the two are related except very loosely and it does a disservice to the subject of NDEs and to the legitimate researchers to start into that other stuff.

Of course, part of that is the fact that some of these other events may be demonic, but NDEs are apparently just events that don't have a certain explanation. They may point to life after death because there's no better explanation, but there's not much more that can be said about them.

If they may be demonic, how do we know they are? And then how can we apply that standard to the NDEs?

My point was that because those others are likely demonic, and NDEs are lumped with them, they might be demonic, too. Is that possible? Can demons give us dreams? Somehow Satan can tempt us non-verbally, I think, so he seems to be able to influence our thoughts—what about dreams?

 

[Albion]

It sounds like you are referring to hallucinations and/or some other of that paranormal stuff referred to earlier. A genuine NDE is what it is and isn't a message planted in one's brain either by God or Satan.

 

[Derf]

There was a child about 5 at her post-op appointment who told the surgeon where he and others were standing during her surgery, how they were dressed including their "shoes," how the instruments were arranged, what was said. There had been a problem and she told him about that situation. He knew she was accurate and began to study NDEs. Said she was at the ceiling looking down.

If they see a bright light, it doesnt necessarily mean it was God. Because Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light (II COR 11:14). Why would that information be included unless we might need it ?

What are their lives like afterwards? Realizing that sometimes it takes awhile to process these NDEs.

For many, death is when they meet the medical definition, the natural one. But we're also spirit. (spirit, soul, and body (I Thess 5:23) .Luk16 account with Father Abraham and Lazarus. 26 "And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

We dont know when passing that great chasm happens. "For as the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26). For believers, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." (II Cor 5:8). Seems death is when both the spirit and soul leave the body permanently - God decides.

Sometimes we decide. Abortion, murder, and suicide are examples.

your question is a good one—what are their lives like afterwards?

 

[Derf]

It sounds like you are referring to hallucinations and/or some other of that paranormal stuff referred to earlier. A genuine NDE is what it is and isn't a message planted in one's brain either by God or Satan.

How do you know that?

 

[Albion]

If they may be demonic, how do we know they are?

I don't know, but they are not NDEs.

My point was that because those others are likely demonic, and NDEs are lumped with them, they might be demonic, too. Is that possible?

My point was that they aren't NDEs.

Can demons give us dreams? Somehow Satan can tempt us non-verbally, I think, so he seems to be able to influence our thoughts—what about dreams?

Maybe, but I doubt it. However, I'm only interested in NDEs on this thread.

 

[Albion]

How do you know that?

What would make you think that something which reveals nothing particularly religious (which is what NDEs normally are like) is planted in your mind by either God or Satan?