Near Death and death experiences

[RBPerry]

I once spent considerable time reaching out to atheist, and agnostics and as I stated in another post finally decided to give up the debates. What I want to ask others on this forum is how many if any have researched death and near death experiences? The www.near-death.com to me is an incredible website of studies where people have had near death or actual death experiences.

Right off I will state that much of what they post don’t line up with orthodox Christian beliefs, so one needs to sort through the research and testimonies. What I find so amazing is the testimonies of people that were atheist. There is an entire sections devoted to an analyst of atheists experiences that I found fascinating to read.

I would also like to know what other Christians have gleamed from these studies. One of the most amazing testimonies that I just love is by Beddy Eddie, she met Jesus and felt so unworthy to be in his presence, she said he stretched out his arms between her and the our heavenly father and said “my blood is sufficient for this one.” Every time I think of that testimony it touches my heart so deeply.

On the other hand one person that really confuses me is Edward Casey, a man with a sixth grade education that under self-hypnosis could identify specific illnesses and give accurate advice on how to cure it. He did hundreds of what were called “readings” as far as I know, all have been accurate.

Anyways, other thoughts, or opinions by Christians please. I'm not interested in atheists thoughts on this subject.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Anyways, other thoughts, or opinions by Christians please. I'm not interested in atheists thoughts on this subject.

Then you should have posted in one of the Christian-Only subfora.

 

[RBPerry]

No, I think open minded atheist would be wise to read the studies. The subject matter covers such a broad range of beliefs it would be impossible to effectively debate it on a forum like this. If someone has something meaningful to contribute that would be great.

 

[Tinker Grey]

No, I think open minded atheist would be wise to read the studies. The subject matter covers such a broad range of beliefs it would be impossible to effectively debate it on a forum like this. If someone has something meaningful to contribute that would be great.

Then expect comments.

 

[Ophiolite]

I once spent considerable time reaching out to atheist, and agnostics and as I stated in another post finally decided to give up the debates. What I want to ask others on this forum is how many if any have researched death and near death experiences? The www.near-death.com to me is an incredible website of studies where people have had near death or actual death experiences.

(Since I am an atheist in respect of the Christian God, you should ignore the following, as per your OP.)

While I speak only for myself, I suspect I reflect the views of many others on the forum, Christian, agnostic and atheist. I do not possess the temerity, insolence or arrogance to express strong doubt on the interpretation of NDE's that link them to an after-life without having done an adequate amount of literature research on the matter. So you can put me down as an atheist who studied the matter, with an open mind, initially strongly inclined to accept the "after-life" interpretation, who came to be convinced it was wholly lacking as a viable explanation.

 

[46AND2]

No, I think open minded atheist would be wise to read the studies. The subject matter covers such a broad range of beliefs it would be impossible to effectively debate it on a forum like this. If someone has something meaningful to contribute that would be great.

I find that the only atheists that many Christians will accept as "open-minded" are former atheists.

I've always been kind of fascinated by NDE's. I lean toward the notion that they are manifestations of your brain as it struggles to keep firing and produce chemicals just before death.

I will check out your site, though. I'd be interested in seeing the similarities and differences between the different faiths.

 

[RBPerry]

I find that the only atheists that many Christians will accept as "open-minded" are former atheists.

I've always been kind of fascinated by NDE's. I lean toward the notion that they are manifestations of your brain as it struggles to keep firing and produce chemicals just before death.

I will check out your site, though. I'd be interested in seeing the similarities and differences between the different faiths.

The dying brain theory is one that was heavily considered, however since we now have EEG and can confirm when there is no brain activity that presents a real problem for the theory. In NDE where there is still brain function that is a legitimate theory. People have return to live after being diagnosed as brain dead, and the amazing part is some have returned with full mental functions, to me that is amazing. With all the research they have done I think the circumstantial evidence of existence beyond physical death is overwhelming in support of existence after death.

 

[RBPerry]

I find that the only atheists that many Christians will accept as "open-minded" are former atheists.

I've always been kind of fascinated by NDE's. I lean toward the notion that they are manifestations of your brain as it struggles to keep firing and produce chemicals just before death.

I will check out your site, though. I'd be interested in seeing the similarities and differences between the different faiths.

Read the analyst of atheist that have near death experiences, it is very good, they even share the skeptical perspective so it isn't one sided. As for former atheist, that is part of my story, atheism to Buddhism to Christianity.

 

[46AND2]

The dying brain theory is one that was heavily considered, however since we now have EEG and can confirm when there is no brain activity that presents a real problem for the theory. In NDE where there is still brain function that is a legitimate theory. People have return to live after being diagnosed as brain dead, and the amazing part is some have returned with full mental functions, to me that is amazing. With all the research they have done I think the circumstantial evidence of existence beyond physical death is overwhelming in support of existence after death.

The issue is you don't know exactly WHEN the NDE is occurring. There is no way to confirm that what they experienced actually happened when they were braindead, or the moments before.

 

[RBPerry]

The issue is you don't know exactly WHEN the NDE is occurring. There is no way to confirm that what they experienced actually happened when they were braindead, or the moments before.

That is a good point, however as many of the testimonies describe events happening that confirms they were dead at the time they witnessed what was happening and the time line agrees with the fact that they were clinically dead. If the testimonies were confined to a few people then obviously they become suspect to say the least, however these studies have gone on in depth since 1970s, with so many same results. When you look at circumstantial evidence one needs to look for the preponderance of the evidence presented. I'm not implying these studies are a smoking gun, but when you look at the totality of what has been presented in my opinion is it is pretty compelling for existence beyond the grave.

 

[46AND2]

That is a good point, however as many of the testimonies describe events happening that confirms they were dead at the time they witnessed what was happening and the time line agrees with the fact that they were clinically dead. If the testimonies were confined to a few people then obviously they become suspect to say the least, however these studies have gone on in depth since 1970s, with so many same results. When you look at circumstantial evidence one needs to look for the preponderance of the evidence presented. I'm not implying these studies are a smoking gun, but when you look at the totality of what has been presented in my opinion is it is pretty compelling for existence beyond the grave.

There is no way to confirm a timeline. Like at all. It's not like they can shout out "hey, I'm having my vision now, am I dead?" There is no preponderance of evidence as you say. There is ZERO evidence that any cognition is retained from events after brain death.

 

[RBPerry]

There is no way to confirm a timeline. Like at all. It's not like they can shout out "hey, I'm having my vision now, am I dead?" There is no preponderance of evidence as you say. There is ZERO evidence that any cognition is retained from events after brain death.

I don't know how many of the case studies you have read, but I think you need to a little more research. There are many of them that described events that happened after they were clinically dead. Not only that how do you account for out of body verifiable experiences.

 

[Jok]

That is a good point, however as many of the testimonies describe events happening that confirms they were dead at the time they witnessed what was happening and the time line agrees with the fact that they were clinically dead. If the testimonies were confined to a few people then obviously they become suspect to say the least, however these studies have gone on in depth since 1970s, with so many same results. When you look at circumstantial evidence one needs to look for the preponderance of the evidence presented. I'm not implying these studies are a smoking gun, but when you look at the totality of what has been presented in my opinion is it is pretty compelling for existence beyond the grave.

So they come out of a NDE, and things took place in the timeframe when they were clinically dead (like a certain conversation), and the person later confirms the conversation as if they were out of their body and heard the conversation?

 

[RBPerry]

There is no way to confirm a timeline. Like at all. It's not like they can shout out "hey, I'm having my vision now, am I dead?" There is no preponderance of evidence as you say. There is ZERO evidence that any cognition is retained from events after brain death.

George Rodonaia (died 2004) underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist. Yet after the experience, he devoted himself exclusively to the study of spirituality, taking a second doctorate in the psychology of religion. He then became an ordained priest in the Eastern Orthodox Church. He served as a pastor at St. Paul United Methodist Church in Baytown, Texas. You can read his and many other accounts on NDE web site. Three days, I'd say he was clinically dead.