NC church limits married couples to 30 min. of sex and that's not all

[Dave-W]

This is to go along with the "Signs of a Cult" thread.

In the articles, it seems the practices of this organization of congregations has been hidden from the public. Former members are now speaking out and the leadership is trying to hush it up.

NC church limits married couples to 30 min. of sex and that's not all

Ex-congregants of church reveal years of ungodly abuse

Former members of NC church describe years of abuse, odd rules about sex, TV

AP Exclusive: Ex-congregants reveal years of ungodly abuse

As part of its investigation, the AP reviewed hundreds of pages of law enforcement, court and child welfare documents, along with hours of conversations with Jane Whaley, the evangelical church's controlling leader, secretly recorded by followers.

The AP also spent more than a year tracking down dozens of former disciples who scattered after leaving the church.

Those interviewed — most of them raised in the church — say Word of Faith leaders waged a decades-long cover-up to thwart investigations by law enforcement and social services officials, including strong-arming young victims and their parents to lie.

They said members were forbidden to seek outside medical attention for their injuries, which included cuts, sprains and cracked ribs.

Several former followers said some congregants were sexually abused, including minors.

 

[Albion]

Religious definition of "cult" vs Sociological definition of "cult."

You're dealing with the second of these, even though it's a religious organization.

 

[Leboman]

They just had to be from North Carolina.

 

[Sammy-San]

This is to go along with the "Signs of a Cult" thread.

In the articles, it seems the practices of this organization of congregations has been hidden from the public. Former members are now speaking out and the leadership is trying to hush it up.

NC church limits married couples to 30 min. of sex and that's not all

Ex-congregants of church reveal years of ungodly abuse

Former members of NC church describe years of abuse, odd rules about sex, TV

AP Exclusive: Ex-congregants reveal years of ungodly abuse

That makes no sense. Either something is a sin or it isn't.

 

[SnowyMacie]

That's a cult, let's call it what it is.

 

[Dave-W]

Religious definition of "cult" vs Sociological definition of "cult."

How about the etymological definition?

 

[Dave-W]

That's a cult, let's call it what it is.

It is a cult in 2 senses:

1 - there are many practices and teachings that are hidden from the public.

2 - it revolves around the person of Jane Whaley, and what she says is gospel.

This group is a cult on those 2 points. The control and even the violence issues are not indicative of a cult; but rather a toxic faith community.

But it is not unusual for all of that stuff to be wrapped up together.

 

[Rajni]

This is to go along with the "Signs of a Cult" thread.

In the articles, it seems the practices of this organization of congregations has been hidden from the public. Former members are now speaking out and the leadership is trying to hush it up.

NC church limits married couples to 30 min. of sex and that's not all

Ex-congregants of church reveal years of ungodly abuse

Former members of NC church describe years of abuse, odd rules about sex, TV

AP Exclusive: Ex-congregants reveal years of ungodly abuse

What's interesting is that this cult is progressive enough to have a female pastor and to dole out condoms, yet at the same time regressive in it's handling of dating, marriage, and sex within marriage.

This cult seems to have done more damage to its members than any of the demons and devils it was claiming to fight against. Proof that the fear of evil can be worse than the evil being feared.

A red flag (and I use this for any religion, not just cults) is when it issues a threat preaches a doctrine that God will retaliate if you don't stay put and do what they say. It really works, too, given how long some of the members stayed in that environment, one member having been with them for 20 years and raised 9 children there.



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[Ken Rank]

Religious definition of "cult" vs Sociological definition of "cult."

You're dealing with the second of these, even though it's a religious organization.

Agreed... I shutter every time that word is used... as I do "pagan."

 

[Desk trauma]

They just had to be from North Carolina.

Soon it's going to be NC rather than Florida man stories.

 

[Dave-W]

red flag (and I use this for any religion, not just cults) is when it issues a threat preaches a doctrine that God will retaliate if you don't stay put and do what they say.

Or the idea that you miss out and are sidelined if you are not on the "cutting edge" of what God is doing NOW. You still may be saved but you are "ineffectual for the Kingdom." It is the same story but a softer version of it. I was in one like that for 13 years.

The one thing that kept that congregation from being a cult of personality was outside accountability. They were very controlling and somewhat abusive, but they stayed back from where this congregation went.

 

[Ken Rank]

It is a cult in 2 senses:

1 - there are many practices and teachings that are hidden from the public.

2 - it revolves around the person of Jane Whaley, and what she says is gospel.

This group is a cult on those 2 points. The control and even the violence issues are not indicative of a cult; but rather a toxic faith community.

But it is not unusual for all of that stuff to be wrapped up together.

Respectfully Dave, I doubt your congregation takes out ads and proclaims your doctrinal stances. Therefore, one could write an article about your group and use the word "hidden" and that wouldn't be fully accurate but could be done. This group does seem to go beyond that but how far? The bottom line is that people are free to come and go... they have access to outside information and are not forced to stay. Therefore, by the classic definition, it isn't a cult. This is a word we use for anyone and anything that doesn't agree with us. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses? A cult? No... lots of doctrine we see as weak and perhaps wrong... but they are free to come and go therefore, not a cult. You would have a better case with the Amish because they do try to remain hidden and will shun and guilt people into compliance.

 

[Dave-W]

Therefore, one could write an article about your group and use the word "hidden" and that wouldn't be fully accurate but could be done.

That group is actively trying to hide their practices from both the media and the law. That makes them a cult.

 

[Ken Rank]

That group is actively trying to hide their practices from both the media and the law. That makes them a cult.

I don't know... I don't know enough about them to judge. I do know this... we don't broadcast what we do to anyone. Mostly because they won't understand... I mean, a group of 80ish non-Jews singing the Shema in Hebrew? Just saying, sometimes what is reported isn't always in context.

 

[Ken Rank]

I meant to add... we are in a town with 92 mainstream churches.

 

[Ken Rank]

That group is actively trying to hide their practices from both the media and the law. That makes them a cult.

In fairness, I just read the stories. Same story, picked up by multiple sources and all secular. That isn't to say it is wrong... I am simply saying that is one side of it and we can't place judgement upon this without hearing the other side out. Admittedly, it doesn't look good, but... there is a procedure in place in Scripture and until that is followed, we can't pass judgement. Well, I can't speak for you... I won't pass judgement until I heard their side.

 

[Albion]

How about the etymological definition?

Well, the real point is that there are several different definitions of the word, in addition to the original meaning. And then there are innumerable "I think it means...." kinds of thoughts thrown into the mix by individuals every time that the subject comes up.

On Christian Forums, it's most often the religious meaning that's under discussion, but on a forum like in this particular one -- 'Ethics and Morality' -- there's probably no single definition that can be demanded.

Your idea that any group which hides something from the law is, ergo, a "cult" is pretty shaky, though, I have to say.

 

[Rajni]

Here's a statement from the church/cult's website on the issue:

Word of Faith Fellowship |


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[Ygrene Imref]

What's interesting is that this cult is progressive enough to have a female pastor and to dole out condoms, yet at the same time regressive in it's handling of dating, marriage, and sex within marriage.

This cult seems to have done more damage to its members than any of the demons and devils it was claiming to fight against. Proof that the fear of evil can be worse than the evil being feared.

A red flag (and I use this for any religion, not just cults) is when it issues a threat preaches a doctrine that God will retaliate if you don't stay put and do what they say. It really works, too, given how long some of the members stayed in that environment, one member having been with them for 20 years and raised 9 children there.



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This is all actually extremely sad...

 

[Sammy-San]

This is all actually extremely sad...

Those words are blurred out.