Nature of Christ

[djconklin]

In editing some of my files on the plagiarism question I ran across this quote by Edersheim:

pg. 298
Jesus voluntarily took upon Himself human nature with all its infirmities and weaknesses--but without the moral taint of the Fall: without sin. It was human nature, in itself capable of sinning, but not having sinned.

 

[StormyOne]

and he would know that how?

 

[Adventtruth]

In editing some of my files on the plagiarism question I ran across this quote by Edersheim:

pg. 298
Jesus voluntarily took upon Himself human nature with all its infirmities and weaknesses--but without the moral taint of the Fall: without sin. It was human nature, in itself capable of sinning, but not having sinned.

Be careful, exceedingly careful as to how you dwell upon the human nature of Christ. Do not set Him before the people as a man with the propensities of sin. He is the second Adam. The first Adam was created a pure, sinless being, without a taint of sin upon him; he was in the image of God. He could fall, and he did fall through
transgressing. because of sin, his posterity was born with inherent propensities of disobedience. But Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of God. He took upon Himself human nature, and was tempted in all points as human nature is tempted. He could have sinned; He could have fallen, but not for one moment was there in Him an evil propensity. He was assailed with temptations in the wilderness, as Adam was assailed with temptations in Eden.
Bro. Baker, avoid every question in relation to the humanity of Christ which is liable to be misunderstood. Truth lies close to the track of presumption. In treating upon the humanity of Christ, you need to guard strenuously every assertion, lest your words be taken to mean more than they imply, and thus you lose or dim the clear perceptions of His humanity as combined with divinity. his birth was a miracle of God; for, said the angel, “Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring fort a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great and shall be called theson of the Highest; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his Father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing that I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, Thy Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy6 thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”
These words are not addressed to any human being, except to the Son of the Infinite God. Never, in any way, leave the slightest impression upon human minds, that a taint of, or inclination to corruption rested upon Christ, or that He in any way yielded to corruption. He was tempted in all points like as man is tempted, yet He is called that holy thing. It is a mystery that is left unexplained to mortals that Christ could be tempted in all points like as we are, and yet be without sin. The incarnation of Christ has ever been, and will ever remain a mystery. That which is revealed, is for us and for our children, but let every human being be warned from the ground of making Christ altogether human, such an one as ourselves; for it cannot be. The exact time when humanity blended with divinity, it is not necessary for us to know. We are to keep our feet on the rock, Christ Jesus, as God revealed in humanity.
I perceive that there is danger in approaching subjects which dwell on the humanity of the Son of the infinite God. He did humble Himself when He saw He was fashioned as a man, that He might understand the force of all temptations wherewith man is beset.
The first Adam fell: the second Adam held fast to God and His word under the most trying circumstances, and His faith in His Father’s goodness, mercy, and love did not waver for one moment. “It is written” was His weapon of resistance., and it is the sword of the Spirit, which every human being is to use. “Hereafter I will not talk much with you; for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me” - nothing to respond to temptation. Not one occasion has been given in response to His manifold temptations. Not once did Christ step on Satan’s ground, to give him any advantage. Satan found nothing in Him to encourage his advances.
As teachers we need to understand that the object and teaching of our Lord was to simplify in all His instructions, the nature and the necessity of the moral excellence of character which God through His Son has made every provision that human agents should obtain, that they may be laborers together with Jesus Christ. This God
requires, and to this end the ministers of the gospel should work, both in their education of the people, and in the ministry of the word. There are many questions treated upon that are not necessary for the perfection of the faith. We have not time for their study. Many things are above finite comprehension. Truths are to be received not within the reach of our reason, and not for us to explain. Revelation presents them to us to be implicitly received as the words of an infinite God. While every ingenious inquirer is to search out the truth as it is in Jesus, there are things not yet simplified, statements that human minds cannot grasp and reason out, without being liable to make human calculations and explanations, which will not prove a savor of life unto life.

Ellen G. White The baker Letter 1895


Now there are many issues to address in the above quote, but Mrs Ellen makes it clear that she believed that Christ was free of sin and had no propensity towards sinning....I have always wondered...if Christ had no bent towards sin, How is it that He could have sinned? It makes no sense to me. Was there a time ever when Christ was not God? If there was, then its possible that He could have sinned, but there is never a time when Christ was not God is there?

Care to answer that?

AT

 

[JonMiller]

I note that in the Bible, in Mathew 11, it says:

25At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure. 27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

Note that here it says that no one knows the Father, but the Son and who the Son reveals to. On the other hand, no one knows the Son but the Father.

This verse agrees with my view, that the nature of Christ will be a continuing mystery for us. I don't think that I have been improperly reading this verse, but do agree that many other read the narrative of the gospel a very different way.



JM

 

[Byfaithalone1]

In editing some of my files on the plagiarism question I ran across this quote by Edersheim:

pg. 298
Jesus voluntarily took upon Himself human nature with all its infirmities and weaknesses--but without the moral taint of the Fall: without sin. It was human nature, in itself capable of sinning, but not having sinned.

Wasn't it the authoritative source of truth for your denomination who said that this is not a subject that should be hotly debated?

BFA

 

[mva1985]

Wasn't it the authoritative source of truth for your denomination who said that this is not a subject that should be hotly debated?

BFA

Define "hotly debated." From what I can see he posted one quote hoping to benefit others. Hardly seems like a debate to me.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

In editing some of my files on the plagiarism question I ran across this quote by Edersheim:

pg. 298
Jesus voluntarily took upon Himself human nature with all its infirmities and weaknesses--but without the moral taint of the Fall: without sin. It was human nature, in itself capable of sinning, but not having sinned.

I don't know that it was intended to benefit people. Who gives a quote with only a page number and expects it to benefit anyone. A page number of an unknown book, unknown volume of book and no one can see the context. No not really much of a benefit to others.

 

[djconklin]

A page number of an unknown book,

Silly me to assume that most people would know that it was from his book The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah.

 

[mva1985]

I don't know that it was intended to benefit people. Who gives a quote with only a page number and expects it to benefit anyone. A page number of an unknown book, unknown volume of book and no one can see the context. No not really much of a benefit to others.

Oh look I googled his name and here is list of his works:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Edersheim#Works

Not to long that you couldn't find it yourself.

 

[StormyOne]

like I said, how would he know?

 

[djconklin]

Since it was about Christ and the most well-known work was his Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah it would be fairly obvious.

Does anyone (other than AT and Jon) have anything constructive to say?

 

[StormyOne]

the person writing said book did not know Christ personally, was not living at the time Christ lived, did not personally examine or interview Christ, so how would he know what his nature was.... he's speculating....

 

[djconklin]

the person writing said book did not know Christ personally, was not living at the time Christ lived, did not personally examine or interview Christ,

He can read the Bible.

 

[StormyOne]

He can read the Bible.

since Jesus did not write the bible, the point remains....

 

[Pythons]

In editing some of my files on the plagiarism question I ran across this quote by Edersheim:

pg. 298
Jesus voluntarily took upon Himself human nature with all its infirmities and weaknesses--but without the moral taint of the Fall: without sin. It was human nature, in itself capable of sinning, but not having sinned.

Hi dj, it's been a bit since I've been around and noticed your post and thought I would toss in my view.

Jesus is "one" Person with two natures (Divine and Human) and because Jesus is a "Divine Person" He cannot be the subject of sin.

I can understand why this theological conclusion would emerge without a grounding in the Trinity because one would assume if Christ had a human nature then it would be like ours and we sin, right?

In Trinitarianism Christ's human will is, in the most perfect fashion, in harmony with, and in free subordination to, the Divine Will.

For me, it helps to think of Jesus as the Divine Logos who became man without ceasing to be God. Two Natures (Divine and Human) united in the "one" Person Jesus Christ.

 

[djconklin]

He can read the Bible.

since Jesus did not write the bible, the point remains....

So, the people who did know Him and were inspired by God to write didn't know him?

 

[djconklin]

because Jesus is a "Divine Person" He cannot be the subject of sin.

Why?

one would assume if Christ had a human nature then it would be like ours and we sin, right?

In what way was Christ's human nature "like ours"?

New questions:

1) What does it mean to be the "second Adam"?
2) What does it mean to condemn sin in the flesh?

 

[sentipente]

So, the people who did know Him and were inspired by God to write didn't know him?

Where is it ever stated that they were inspired for the purpose of writing? That is what is meant by "they were inspired to write."

 

[Pythons]

Because Jesus is a "Divine Person" He cannot be the subject of sin.

Why?

Because Jesus is God and it's metaphysically impossible for God to sin. Sacred Scripture to follow.

For Thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

He is the Rock, His work is perfect: for all His ways are judgment: A GOD OF TRUTH and without Iniquity, just and right is He.

And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of Hosts: the whole earth is full of His Glory.

Holy (Kadosh = exempted from sin). The above is only the tip of the iceburg. The Divine Logos became man without ceasing to be God thus Jesus was born w/out sin. Consider man through "the Old Adam".

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my Mother conceive me.

The above two Scriptures demonstrate that a person is born "into" sin. Jesus was obviously NOT because God is without iniquity. Adam was created without sin then sinned causing every person after him to be shaped in iniquity and born into sin. For Jesus to be born without sin and not shaped in iniquity "inside His Mother" then His Mother was without sin as a result of a special favor from God.

In what way was Christ's human nature like ours.

In "all ways" EXCEPT FOR SIN.

New questions:

1) What does it mean to be the socond Adam?

2) What does it mean to condemn sin in the flesh?

#1 means that through Christ all are made pure as if Adam had "never" sinned. Through Adam every child born "was shaped in iniquity and born into sin" and through the second Adam all are made "pure" and can stand in front of God without fault.

#2 means that all the worlds sins were "placed" on Jesus who while born in the flesh wasn't shaped in iniquity nor born in sin yet suffered temptations like us without having sinned. This is all Trinitarian 101 stuff for Catholics.

 

[sentipente]

He can read the Bible.

And we can't?