native american mascots

[Force]

Originally posted by Dewjunkie
I think if the mascots are done with respect to the culture and depicted in a accurate manner, then they would be o.k. (ie: Chief Illini for the University of Illinois). But anything stereotypical and/or derogatory (Redskins, imagine teams called the Blackskins and Yellowskins and how well they would fly...) should be changed.

Yeah most of them are done with respect etc.  and have been around for ages!  I NEVER got why you should change the name of a school mascot.  So much for team spirit and the fact that a lot of these schools and mascots have been around FOREVER.

We went from the Trojans in high school to the Thunder (what a stupid mascot name by the way) all because some old ladies didnt like the fact that Trojan was the name of a condom.  This IS political correctness run amok!

Whats next PETA getting mad about degrading animal names.  sorry you cant be the Tigers or the Wolverines anymore.

posted by heapsake Do the Irish have a problem with the Celtics or Notre Dame?

Do Scandanavians protest the Vikings (or whoever is from where the Vikings are from?

I don't know a single cowboy, packer, steelworker, father, or Texan, that is upset by Dallas, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, San Diego, or Houston using them for their mascot. I would be honored if my alma mater changed from the Bison to the Heapshakes.

Another GREAT POINT!

I mean come on you cant say the Atlanta Braves or the Florida State Seminoles are names that are offending and I have talked to several people who are indian who dont mind it anyway.  WHO CARES!

By the way GO NOLES!!!!!!!!

 

[cenimo]

from their cultures....if we had taken the words for wuss or wimp or something and named teams it might be an argument.... only 15% of Natives are upset about the team names anyway ( Fox News) but they are getting all the press...

 

Inspired

When did the Confederate Flag ever fly over the Nation's Capitol? I'd like to see the answer to this one. Some states, yes, South Carolina for one.  The Capitols of the CSA, Richmond, VA. and Montgomery, AL yes, but the nation's capitol? Never happened.

May The Figthing Irish always be The Fighting Irish and the guys who thought up The Figthing Whities laugh all the way to the bank.

pc and free speech cannot co-exist, chose one.

 

[MyJhongFist]

Originally posted by Inspired
Let me put it into perspective for you, do you want to see a baseball team called the Christs's?

How about Jesus malt liquor?


We came over here took there land away from them, stuck them on reservations, I think we at least owe them to quit demeaning them in this way.

I'd LOVE to see a team called the Christ's or The Christian Warriors or the Fighting Christians.  There's nothing demeaning about that at all.

If I were to name a team 'the Braves' that would mean that I considered the word 'Brave' (in the Native American context) to be a mighty warrior, just like I wanted my team to be perceived.  What's demeaning about that?

 

[notto]

The controversy isn't so much over the name itself but is often over the use of sacred sybols and items and caricatures of indians being used as mascots. Chief Wahoo, use of headdresses and tomohawks. Use of slogans such as "Scalp the . . . " or "Masacre the . . ." are the issues that lead to disrespect.

I grew up with a highschool that used the Chiefs. Although the name itself was seemingly okay, headresses and pipes were used in the merchandising, slogans appeared on signs and buttons, and a caracature of a "Chief" was at our games.

Would you want to see crosses waved over peoples heads at games to cheer the team on? Would you want slogans such as "Crucify the Fighting Christians" to be on the signs and buttons at the games? Would you like to see a characature of a minister rally the fans? These are the issues that this movement addresses. It goes beyond the name.

Has anyone noticed that in the past many of the names chosen for military weapons hardware are related to native american artifacts or tribes? (Tomohawk missle, Apache helecopter, etc). Just another example of exploitation of indiginous names.

 

[coastie]

Has anyone noticed that in the past many of the names chosen for military weapons hardware are related to native american artifacts or tribes? (Tomohawk missle, Apache helecopter, etc). Just another example of exploitation of indiginous names.

i don't know if I'd consider that exploitation or an honor.

 

[notto]

Originally posted by coastie
i don't know if I'd consider that exploitation or an honor.

Considering the history of the United State military and native peoples, I think it could be considered explotation.

It perpetuate a stereotype of aggressiveness. Something Christians should consider when the ponder the "Crusader' missle system.

 

[Inspired]

Originally posted by MyJhongFist
I'd LOVE to see a team called the Christ's or The Christian Warriors or the Fighting Christians.  There's nothing demeaning about that at all.

If I were to name a team 'the Braves' that would mean that I considered the word 'Brave' (in the Native American context) to be a mighty warrior, just like I wanted my team to be perceived.  What's demeaning about that?

But what if it was just a baseball team, with not a Christian on it?

In calling them Braves, and giving them symbols related to Native American Heritage, you are liking them to actual Braves, the players I have seen fall short of that honor.

 

[Inspired]

Originally posted by cenimo
from their cultures....if we had taken the words for wuss or wimp or something and named teams it might be an argument.... only 15% of Natives are upset about the team names anyway ( Fox News) but they are getting all the press...

 

Inspired

When did the Confederate Flag ever fly over the Nation's Capitol? I'd like to see the answer to this one. Some states, yes, South Carolina for one.  The Capitols of the CSA, Richmond, VA. and Montgomery, AL yes, but the nation's capitol? Never happened.

May The Figthing Irish always be The Fighting Irish and the guys who thought up The Figthing Whities laugh all the way to the bank.

pc and free speech cannot co-exist, chose one.

The Confederate Memorial was located just outside the Capital and until the NAACP protested South Carolina to remove it from the state capital, A confederate flag was on the west lawn facing the memorial.
The memorial was in place to pay tribute to Robert E. Lee.

 

[two feathers]

Originally posted by notto
The controversy isn't so much over the name itself but is often over the use of sacred sybols and items and caricatures of indians being used as mascots....

notto, i agree wholeheartedly with your post.

cenimo, "15% of natives are upset about the team names anyway(fox news) but they are getting all the press"???
where did they get that percentage? if you're trusting that fox news has any clue with what the native people think and feel, then that's a problem. please step out of that two dimensional world and into the real one.

force, no comment.

brimshack, you're right. there may be other problems that are more important to focus on. but that does not mean this one should go unfought. and this topic is not only of interest to professional indians and others in liberal circles. for those from the outside looking in, like yourself, that may be the thinking. but for those from the inside looking out, it is a battle for all the people. a battle to win back a very important thing...dignity.

how would you all feel if everytime you turned on the tv or walked into a shopping center or went to a sporting event your cultures and beliefs were being made light of. and your children grew up seeing themselves and their people in that negative light. do you not think it would weigh heavy upon them? this adds to many of the problems that native people face today. the images and the usage of them help to darken depression. and that depression hungers for alcohol and drugs and suicide. and the circle goes unbroken.

this is not about being politically correct(man, how i hate those two words), this is about honor and respect.

 

[two feathers]

Originally posted by Inspired


In calling them Braves, and giving them symbols related to Native American Heritage, you are liking them to actual Braves, the players I have seen fall short of that honor.

i second that.

 

[MyJhongFist]

Originally posted by Inspired
But what if it was just a baseball team, with not a Christian on it? 

Wouldn't matter in the slightest.  The name would be to create a perception in the public eye of how mighty and spirited the team was.  Not an advertisement of the beliefs of the individuals who are playing the game.

 

[cenimo]

Inspired

You originally said the Confederate Flaf flew over The Nation's Capitol

It has never flown over the Capitol in Washington, D.C. The display you mention was as part of our history, as it should be.

hey guys, I'm American born half-Irish half Italian and got static about it the whole time I was growing up. Hard to have sympathy because someone somewhere doesn't like a team name. It's a game people, a sport, not life and death. This is how ridiculous this gets...there's a town in upstate NY called Fishkill. That's the name of the town, always has been. the Mayor gets letters from PETA and other groups that want the name changed because it encourages violence towards fish. Spare us.

As stated before, political correctness (the religion of the devil) and free speech cannot co-exist. I chose free speech, how about you?

 

[Blindfaith]

  I'm sorry cenimo, I can't help but laugh over the Fishkill story.....*sigh*....so typical....

 

[mac_philo]

Originally posted by <><
Political correctness run amock vs. the Supreme Law of the Land (the US Constitution)

&nbsp;

I side with the Constitution, so should all elected officials, military members, police officers, etc... who swear or affirm to defend the Constitution from enemies, whether foreign or domestic.

The original poster never said that these things should be banned by the government, so I fail to see what the Constitution has to do with it. The constitution also allows one to use foul language, be a sexist, hate people with dark skin, and worship Satan. You imply that 'siding with the Constitution' requires supporting racist caricatures for mascots. Does it also require supporting the sexism, racism, satanism, etc? Note that I am not referring to illegal discrimination; merely prejudice.

It's hard to see how this issue can be solved by your dislike of political correctness. Unless you don't think mascots based on other racial stereotypes woud be offensive. Certainly we can seperate the legality of these things from whether or not they are right.

Our standards of what we find acceptable aren't all to be found in the constitution, and our expression of those standards isn't all a matter of law. You can oppose racist mascots without supporting their censorship.

 

[Stormy]

Too many people pick insignificant little battles to appease their own agenda rather than focusing on the true problems.

I think some peole see things as insignificant only because it does not effect them personally.

 

[stray bullet]

Originally posted by Inspired
But isn't that exactly why we don't fly the confederate flag anymore over the Nation's Capital? It is disrespectal to alot of people.

Only to history revisionists.

 

[TwinCrier]

OK, at a local school here, their mascot is the 'Minuteman.'&nbsp; It was deemed racist because it showed a white man.&nbsp; What about the Notre Dame Fightin Irish?&nbsp; I guess you have to choose whether you view it as an honor or if you're going to let your widdle feewings get hurt. &nbsp;

 

[MyJhongFist]

Originally posted by stray bullet
Only to history revisionists.

You got that right, Stray !!!!!&nbsp; And I'll debate that fact with anyone.

 

[MyJhongFist]

Originally posted by Stormy
I think some peole see things as insignificant only because it does not effect them personally.

Or because they are just insignificant.

 

[cenimo]

blindfaith

The Mayor of Fishkill, Ny was on a talk radio program about this and he himself was chuckling about it and had to keep reminding callers it wasn't a goof news piece or anything. And you're right dear, it is so typical

I'll buy his honor a Guinness if he ever shows up in Reilly's