National Debt & DOGE

[Diamond72]

Is the objective of DOGE to do whatever we need to do to reduce the national debt? The Clinton administration was able to reduce the annual budget deficit. ($4.1 trillion)

The national debt has surpassed $36.2 trillion. driven by factors like tax cuts, stimulus programs, and increased government spending. This level of debt can impact economic stability and limit the government's ability to respond to future crises.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has raised serious concerns about America's growing national deficit, which he described as unprecedented outside of recession or war periods. He emphasized that without significant changes, the high deficit could undermine efforts to promote economic growth, reduce inflation, and threaten the U.S.'s standing as a global superpower.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I’m sure a bunch of tariffs and tax cuts will do wonders.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

Is the objective of DOGE to do whatever we need to do to reduce the national debt? The Clinton administration was able to reduce the annual budget deficit. ($4.1 trillion)

The national debt has surpassed $36.2 trillion. driven by factors like tax cuts, stimulus programs, and increased government spending. This level of debt can impact economic stability and limit the government's ability to respond to future crises.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has raised serious concerns about America's growing national deficit, which he described as unprecedented outside of recession or war periods. He emphasized that without significant changes, the high deficit could undermine efforts to promote economic growth, reduce inflation, and threaten the U.S.'s standing as a global superpower.

The budget deficit has to be reduced to zero and hopefully even be negative to pay off some of the debt.

Budget deficits like the USA has been running equals printing money equals inflation because the FED simply ends up buying these bonds off the market with newly printed (digitally) money. Budget deficits like this make everyone poorer but it hits the poor the hardest as they don't have assets that normally rise in value along with inflation. The rich like debts (as they use it to invest in assets), but it's cruelty to the poor.

Musk (similar to Javier Milei in Argentina) has been arguing for a while the USA deficit is the primary driver of inflation. This however is only partially true. Inflation is driven by the total increase of the money supply relative to the size of the economy - so that includes the growth of the money supply caused by private credit (= mortgages, business lending, consumer lending). If private credit growth is rampant reducing a Government deficit is only partially lowering inflation.

In general it's much better for society to curb private credit growth by tightening money lending criteria (e.g. by loan-value ratio, or loan-income ratio) than just raising interest rates (which increases the cost in society).

 

[Diamond72]

Budget deficits like the USA has been running equals printing money equals inflation because the FED simply ends up buying these bonds off the market with newly printed (digitally) money.

FED is not government. It is a banking association.

The "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin! This book is a critical examination of the Federal Reserve System in the United States. Griffin delves into the history and workings of the Federal Reserve, arguing that it operates as a secretive and powerful entity that influences the economy and politics.

Paul Rand wrote a book that we should abolish the Federal Reserve System. This does seem to be non partisan. Biden did not fire the person appointed by Trump. Ron Paul has written extensively about the Federal Reserve, most notably in his book "End the Fed". In this book, he argues that the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional and has caused significant economic harm through its monetary policies1.

 

[Diamond72]

I’m sure a bunch of tariffs and tax cuts will do wonders.

Should we reduce the number of federal employees? We can cut taxes if we increase tariffs. So we reduce income tax and increase what amounts to a sales tax. Either way this is harder on the poor than the rich. Does Trump and Musk really want to help poor people?

 

[Diamond72]

printing money equals inflation

That is always the catch phrase. While printing more money can contribute to inflation, other factors such as supply chain disruptions, increased production costs, and changes in consumer demand also play significant roles in driving inflation. It's a complex interplay of various economic factors.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

FED is not government. It is a banking association.

The "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin! This book is a critical examination of the Federal Reserve System in the United States. Griffin delves into the history and workings of the Federal Reserve, arguing that it operates as a secretive and powerful entity that influences the economy and politics.

Paul Rand wrote a book that we should abolish the Federal Reserve System. This does seem to be non partisan. Biden did not fire the person appointed by Trump. Ron Paul has written extensively about the Federal Reserve, most notably in his book "End the Fed". In this book, he argues that the Federal Reserve is unconstitutional and has caused significant economic harm through its monetary policies1.

AFAIK the USA is the only country in the world where the Central Bank formally is not the Government indeed; but for nearly all practical purposes it is semi-government where its chairman is appointed by the Federal Government. But still a country needs a currency, so you need a central bank.

If Governments and Central Banks simply would not allow the money supply to growth faster than the economy - there would be no inflation (on average). But for those who own assets (and thus who have most political influence/power), inflation is too tempting.

 

[Pommer]

Should we reduce the number of federal employees?

How are we going to deport 12,000,000 people without hiring a bunches of more employees to do the job?

We can cut taxes if we increase tariffs.

Right, we should we be expected to pay both?

So we reduce income tax and increase what amounts to a sales tax. Either way this is harder on the poor than the rich. Does Trump and Musk really want to help poor people?

If the poor starve, the money saved will go to the 0.1%.

 

[Diamond72]

How are we going to deport 12,000,000 people without hiring a bunches of more employees to do the job?

Replace them with legal immigrants. Trump is married to an immigrant, Musk is an immigrant. He wants to increase the number of H1 visas. These are people who are qualified to do the work. Not dropouts. Of course, you can not exploit legal immigrants the way you can with illegal to get them to work for slave wages.

 

[Laodicean60]

Is the objective of DOGE to do whatever we need to do to reduce the national debt?

I believe this is what they want to do but with the economy slowing in certain sectors it doesn't make sense for the layoffs.

The national debt has surpassed $36.2 trillion. driven by factors like tax cuts, stimulus programs, and increased government spending. This level of debt can impact economic stability and limit the government's ability to respond to future crises.

That's why my kids need to revolt and get us old spoiled boomers out of government because we are bleeding them dry. You are right about impact because it will affect ALL Americans R and D's alike. Sadly I've heard the whining about debt for 20 years. Our interest payment on debt is more than defense spending.

The Clinton administration was able to reduce the annual budget deficit. ($4.1 trillion)

Yes, a time when politicians could halfway talk to each other. Clinton was graced with the first tech bubble. good times

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has raised serious concerns about America's growing national deficit, which he described as unprecedented outside of recession or war periods. He emphasized that without significant changes, the high deficit could undermine efforts to promote economic growth, reduce inflation, and threaten the U.S.'s standing as a global superpower.

We are an empire in decline we are doing the same thing that caused empires in the past to fail "debt". I am not optimistic about the debt reduction but I will see. I mentioned to the Democrats last year about tooting their horn on economics I say the same for the Republicans because many economists have been warning of a recession for the last couple of years so Trump's actions may cause one due to the fragility of the economy.

 

[Diamond72]

That's why my kids need to revolt and get us old spoiled boomers out of government because we are bleeding them dry.

It is costing them money to keep us alive. I asked my son and he wants to keep me alive. But the new doctors are busy stuffing money in their pocket and Trump is trying to keep that under control. Although doctors have always stuffed a lot of money in their pockets. Maybe Trump can fix it, maybe not.

 

[Richard T]

The debt will never likely be reduced voluntarily. A slowdown in the deficits is somewhat likely, but I am thinking the economy is in for a rough ride and believe the deficits will remain and could even increase. I support much of Trump's efforts but recognize that his goodwill and mandate can disappear fast if inflation and the economy happen to turn on him. .6 percent inflation in the last monthly report is a 7.2% annual rate. I'm pretty bearish anyway. There is too much concentration and worship of money. It could very well be the plan of God to bring revival through some serious challenges that are likely to include economic and moral adjustments in regards to money.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Is the objective of DOGE to do whatever we need to do to reduce the national debt?

I don't think that it is. The cuts that they've recommended thus far have been relatively minor (compared to the overall deficit) and generally unfocused. Rather, the objective seems to be to sow distrust in government institutions and create chaos and confusion. To what end, I don't know.

 

[Diamond72]

The cuts that they've recommended thus far have been relatively minor

Perhaps it is a lot of hoopla or much ado about nothing. Or they will say it was an error or we made a mistake. If they do not get Musk to confess then they have nothing because no one knows what he even did. The system was hacked and people got locked out and that sort of stuff is known to happen.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Pommer]

DOGE wasn’t a good idea from the start, we already have thousands of people making sure, that in nearly every step (whichever department’s procedures are), the money is properly vetted.

Now, if DOGE would have been a centralized-accounting agency taking in data for all the other accountants within the government, that’d flew just fine in Washington.

But, no, we got the A-team! AI+TeaMusk!
Taking no prisoners.

Has no-one picked up a history book?

 

[Diamond72]

DOGE wasn’t a good idea from the start

This is what Musk wants to call his team of 25 teenagers. Why do you have a problem with Musk? Right now it looks like he is dealing with this issue through technology to help the government straighten out their computers. Do you have a problem with what his team is doing with the computers and the technology?

My son is a computer engineer, that is what he does for a living. Although he specializes in AVEVA PI System.

No one is better qualified than Musk to bring AI into the federal gov computer system. This seems to be part of a broader effort to overhaul and modernize federal systems, potentially aiming to cut costs and increase efficiency.
Of course Musk and Gates do not get along. So Gates uses the press to build himself up and tear Musk down.

Bill Gates has publicly admitted to shorting Tesla stock in the past. This means he bet that Tesla's stock price would fall, hoping to profit from the decline. Elon Musk was not pleased with this move, especially given Gates' public support for environmental causes, which Tesla's electric vehicles align with.

 

[Laodicean60]

Rather, the objective seems to be to sow distrust in government institutions and create chaos and confusion.

I'm one of them that distrusts the government and not because of DOGE because I know the government is fully transparent.

centralized-accounting agency taking in data for all the other accountants within the government, that’d flew just fine in Washington.

This is a novel idea why didn't we have something like this 20 years ago only now because of DOGE everyone is concerned about auditing the government. Hopefully, this will create talk about contracted accounting firms and transparency in tax spending.

The cuts that they've recommended thus far have been relatively minor (compared to the overall deficit) and generally unfocused.

100% true, million here a billion there is a drop in the bucket to a trillion. It's hard to grasp the magnitude of a trillion dollars. We would have to cut spending in half to make a dent but what a ruckus that would cause.

 

[Diamond72]

It's hard to grasp the magnitude of a trillion dollars. We would have to cut spending in half to make a dent but what a ruckus that would cause.

In addition to the cut in spending, they need to increase revenue. One way to do that is through tariffs. I think it is better to tax money people spend, compared to what they earn. But no one likes to pay taxes.

 

[civilwarbuff]

How are we going to deport 12,000,000 people without hiring a bunches of more employees to do the job?

​

How many federal workers are there?​

That depends on who you’re counting.

In November 2024, the federal government employed just over 3 million people, or 1.87% of the entire civilian workforce, according to BLS data. That figure doesn’t count the roughly 1.3 million active-duty military personnel, who aren’t typically considered “employees.” It does include the more than 600,000 people who work for the U.S. Postal Service, an independent federal agency with semiautonomous status that operates somewhat like a private business.


Set aside the Postal Service and you have a bit more than 2.4 million federal workers. That makes the federal government the nation’s single largest employer, with even more workers than Walmart, Amazon or McDonald’s. In fact, the Postal Service by itself would, if it were a private business, rank among the 10 largest private-sector employers, ahead of industry rivals UPS and FedEx.

What the data says about federal workers

As President-elect Donald Trump returns to the White House, here are answers to some common questions about the federal workforce.

www.pewresearch.org

Try getting your headcount straight.....

 

[civilwarbuff]

DOGE wasn’t a good idea from the start, we already have thousands of people making sure, that in nearly every step (whichever department’s procedures are), the money is properly vetted.

Except it hasn't been. Last I heard the Pentagon has failed all their audits. Wonder how many federal agencies will pass theirs?........0 anyone?