Narrow or difficult? Matt 7:14 translation?

[x141]

OK, this thread has just officially gotten waaaaaaay too strange and freaky.

Surely as a christian mathematician your knowledge is not limited to a word dictonary.

 

[Noxot]

So which is more accurate, narrow/compressed or difficult/hard?

honestly... I don't see a difference.

I might as well translate the word as "hidden" seeing as how no one seems to really understand the spiritual depths of the path the Lord gives to us seeing as how he himself has said that he is the way. Jesus spoke in parables so then WHY are we so concerned with the outer meaning of a word when parables themselves seek to express deeper things? does it truly matter what kind of decent translation one gives to this word if God himself said he will teach you all things? it only matters a great amount if you depend on your own abilities to understand divine things rather than on the divine to understand divine. mostly what humans do with the divine is fall short of his expression.

we attempt to understand God according to our capacity and God attempts to work with us to make us understand as much as we are willing to sit as his feet. we ought to stop living in this delusion that atheist live in, that God is not... because that is what Christians are doing when they believe he is far away rather than also imminent and closer to us than we are to ourselves. it is not the translations of words that makes us understand God, it is by being transformed by God that we understand God. to quibble over tiny things might reveal that you have been guilty of straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel. obviously camels are more of a concern than a gnat. paul has expressed similar ideas as mine according to the spirit of the matter for example:

1Tim 1:1-11 (YLT)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to a command of God our Saviour, and of the Lord Jesus Christ our hope, to Timotheus--genuine child in faith: Grace, kindness, peace, from God our Father, and Christ Jesus our Lord, according as I did exhort thee to remain in Ephesus--I going on to Macedonia--that thou mightest charge certain not to teach any other thing, nor to give heed to fables and endless genealogies, that cause questions rather than the building up of God that is in faith: -- And the end of the charge is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned, from which certain, having swerved, did turn aside to vain discourse, willing to be teachers of law, not understanding either the things they say, nor concerning what they asseverate, and we have known that the law is good, if any one may use it lawfully; having known this, that for a righteous man law is not set, but for lawless and insubordinate persons, ungodly and sinners, impious and profane, parricides and matricides, men-slayers, whoremongers, sodomites, men-stealers, liars, perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that to sound doctrine is adverse, according to the good news of the glory of the blessed God, with which I was entrusted.

Titus 3:7-11 (YLT)
that having been declared righteous by His grace, heirs we may become according to the hope of life age-during. Stedfast is the word; and concerning these things I counsel thee to affirm fully, that they may be thoughtful, to be leading in good works--who have believed God; these are the good and profitable things to men, and foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about law, stand away from--for they are unprofitable and vain. A sectarian man, after a first and second admonition be rejecting, having known that he hath been subverted who is such, and doth sin, being self-condemned.

it was people that opposed Jesus, such as the scribes and Pharisees, that were very concerned with the tiny matters of the law ( and thus the bible ) whilst they neglected the core teachings of the bible.

obviously if your heart is pure God will set his angels over you that you may not stumble. whatsoever you do in the spirit and truth, even being concerned for a word in the bible, is good and pure worship of God. but whatever we do without faith in God is sin. examples:

Ps 19:7-8 (YLT)
The law of Jehovah is perfect, refreshing the soul, The testimonies of Jehovah are stedfast, Making wise the simple, The precepts of Jehovah are upright, Rejoicing the heart, The command of Jehovah is pure, enlightening the eyes,

Matt 5:3-9 (YLT)
`Happy the poor in spirit--because theirs is the reign of the heavens. `Happy the mourning--because they shall be comforted. `Happy the meek--because they shall inherit the land. `Happy those hungering and thirsting for righteousness--because they shall be filled. `Happy the kind--because they shall find kindness. `Happy the clean in heart--because they shall see God. `Happy the peacemakers--because they shall be called Sons of God.

spiritual contemplation of God and the things concerning him open a very wide door that no one can close, everything points to God and God teaches you in all kinds of manners. God is not limited and surmounts all translations. nothing prevents God from revealing himself but we can prevent ourselves from understanding in many different ways, even by reading the bible seeing as how sin uses what is good for evil. this is why it is important to not be blinded with a foolish hardened heart and to be as Jesus tells us to be - spiritual and heavenly rather than carnal and of the world. spiritual contemplation can reveal very much to a person... even one sentence is food for thousands because it is of the wisdom from above rather than normal human understanding.

only spiritual people are capable of receiving spiritual revelation. this is the type of teachings offered to us by God and it is a different mode of understanding the bible than normal study affords one to see with. prayers and all the virtues are our greatest allies for understanding God, not study and understanding the meaning of words, which is secondary and are easily bypassed by the spirit of wisdom and knowledge which is a gift from God. God teaches a person a completely new language because his view of things are not hindered by the sinful and fallen condition of humanity, which is why it is very important to become transformed and born again into the new and pure humanity of Jesus Christ while at the same time dying from the old man and his works and thinking patterns.


but on the level of translating a word and mistranslations look at:

John 15:1-2 (YLT)
`I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman; every branch in me not bearing fruit, He doth take it away, and every one bearing fruit, He doth cleanse by pruning it, that it may bear more fruit;

John 15:1-2 (ESV2011)
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

John 15:1-2 (HCSB)
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vineyard keeper. Every branch in Me that does not produce fruit He removes, and He prunes every branch that produces fruit so that it will produce more fruit.

John 15:1-2 (mkjv1962)
I am the True Vine, and My Father is the Vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away. And every one that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bring forth more fruit.

G142 αἴρω airo (ai'-ro) v.
1. to lift up
2. (by implication) to take up or away
3. (figuratively) to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind)
4. (specially) to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor)
5. (by Hebraism) to atone for sin
[a primary root]
KJV: away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up)
Compare: H5375

most translations fall so short of the true meaning of this parable that one can only understand that verse by Gods grace. depending on how you understand God will show you how you understand this part of the parable as that word means totally different things depending on how you view God to be. but the bible expresses many ideas multiple times and so even if one word is crudely translated in another area of the bible the same idea might be expressed more clearly.

 

[x141]

I might as well translate the word as "hidden" seeing as how no one seems to really understand the spiritual depths of the path the Lord gives to us seeing as how he himself has said that he is the way. Jesus spoke in parables so then WHY are we so concerned with the outer meaning of a word when parables themselves seek to express deeper things? does it truly matter what kind of decent translation one gives to this word if God himself said he will teach you all things? it only matters a great amount if you depend on your own abilities to understand divine things rather than on the divine to understand divine. mostly what humans do with the divine is fall short of his expression.

we attempt to understand God according to our capacity and God attempts to work with us to make us understand as much as we are willing to sit as his feet. we ought to stop living in this delusion that atheist live in, that God is not... because that is what Christians are doing when they believe he is far away rather than also imminent and closer to us than we are to ourselves. it is not the translations of words that makes us understand God, it is by being transformed by God that we understand God. to quibble over tiny things might reveal that you have been guilty of straining out a gnat while swallowing a camel. obviously camels are more of a concern than a gnat. paul has expressed similar ideas as mine according to the spirit of the matter for example:

1Tim 1:1-11 (YLT)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to a command of God our Saviour, and of the Lord Jesus Christ our hope, to Timotheus--genuine child in faith: Grace, kindness, peace, from God our Father, and Christ Jesus our Lord, according as I did exhort thee to remain in Ephesus--I going on to Macedonia--that thou mightest charge certain not to teach any other thing, nor to give heed to fables and endless genealogies, that cause questions rather than the building up of God that is in faith: -- And the end of the charge is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned, from which certain, having swerved, did turn aside to vain discourse, willing to be teachers of law, not understanding either the things they say, nor concerning what they asseverate, and we have known that the law is good, if any one may use it lawfully; having known this, that for a righteous man law is not set, but for lawless and insubordinate persons, ungodly and sinners, impious and profane, parricides and matricides, men-slayers, whoremongers, sodomites, men-stealers, liars, perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that to sound doctrine is adverse, according to the good news of the glory of the blessed God, with which I was entrusted.

Titus 3:7-11 (YLT)
that having been declared righteous by His grace, heirs we may become according to the hope of life age-during. Stedfast is the word; and concerning these things I counsel thee to affirm fully, that they may be thoughtful, to be leading in good works--who have believed God; these are the good and profitable things to men, and foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about law, stand away from--for they are unprofitable and vain. A sectarian man, after a first and second admonition be rejecting, having known that he hath been subverted who is such, and doth sin, being self-condemned.

it was people that opposed Jesus, such as the scribes and Pharisees, that were very concerned with the tiny matters of the law ( and thus the bible ) whilst they neglected the core teachings of the bible.

obviously if your heart is pure God will set his angels over you that you may not stumble. whatsoever you do in the spirit and truth, even being concerned for a word in the bible, is good and pure worship of God. but whatever we do without faith in God is sin. examples:

Ps 19:7-8 (YLT)
The law of Jehovah is perfect, refreshing the soul, The testimonies of Jehovah are stedfast, Making wise the simple, The precepts of Jehovah are upright, Rejoicing the heart, The command of Jehovah is pure, enlightening the eyes,

Matt 5:3-9 (YLT)
`Happy the poor in spirit--because theirs is the reign of the heavens. `Happy the mourning--because they shall be comforted. `Happy the meek--because they shall inherit the land. `Happy those hungering and thirsting for righteousness--because they shall be filled. `Happy the kind--because they shall find kindness. `Happy the clean in heart--because they shall see God. `Happy the peacemakers--because they shall be called Sons of God.

spiritual contemplation of God and the things concerning him open a very wide door that no one can close, everything points to God and God teaches you in all kinds of manners. God is not limited and surmounts all translations. nothing prevents God from revealing himself but we can prevent ourselves from understanding in many different ways, even by reading the bible seeing as how sin uses what is good for evil. this is why it is important to not be blinded with a foolish hardened heart and to be as Jesus tells us to be - spiritual and heavenly rather than carnal and of the world. spiritual contemplation can reveal very much to a person... even one sentence is food for thousands because it is of the wisdom from above rather than normal human understanding.

only spiritual people are capable of receiving spiritual revelation. this is the type of teachings offered to us by God and it is a different mode of understanding the bible than normal study affords one to see with. prayers and all the virtues are our greatest allies for understanding God, not study and understanding the meaning of words, which is secondary and are easily bypassed by the spirit of wisdom and knowledge which is a gift from God. God teaches a person a completely new language because his view of things are not hindered by the sinful and fallen condition of humanity, which is why it is very important to become transformed and born again into the new and pure humanity of Jesus Christ while at the same time dying from the old man and his works and thinking patterns.


but on the level of translating a word and mistranslations look at:

John 15:1-2 (YLT)
`I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman; every branch in me not bearing fruit, He doth take it away, and every one bearing fruit, He doth cleanse by pruning it, that it may bear more fruit;

John 15:1-2 (ESV2011)
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

John 15:1-2 (HCSB)
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vineyard keeper. Every branch in Me that does not produce fruit He removes, and He prunes every branch that produces fruit so that it will produce more fruit.

John 15:1-2 (mkjv1962)
I am the True Vine, and My Father is the Vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away. And every one that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bring forth more fruit.

G142 αἴρω airo (ai'-ro) v.
1. to lift up
2. (by implication) to take up or away
3. (figuratively) to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind)
4. (specially) to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor)
5. (by Hebraism) to atone for sin
[a primary root]
KJV: away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up)
Compare: H5375

most translations fall so short of the true meaning of this parable that one can only understand that verse by Gods grace. depending on how you understand God will show you how you understand this part of the parable as that word means totally different things depending on how you view God to be. but the bible expresses many ideas multiple times and so even if one word is crudely translated in another area of the bible the same idea might be expressed more clearly.

Well said.

 

[Radagast]

I might as well translate the word as "hidden"

Well, no. The Greek word is not a difficult one; the meaning is quite clear.