Name It

[Gottservant]

No. Judging the change in a person's character is a subjective opinion, not a scientific fact.

And a group of subjective opinions, is a fact.

What point are you making?

What are you going on about? You aren't making any sense. You are assuming that you actually know what evolution is, but you don't, and it's leading you to utterly meaningless conclusions. That in itself isn't so bad, but you seem to have an absolute refusal to learn what evolution actually is.

You were saying science has a "nature" and that you intuited the significance of that.

Again, what you are saying just makes no sense whatsoever.

No one said you couldn't rejumble what I said, just that you would have to show where the new interpretation applies to the old interpretation (of those words?).

 

[Kylie]

And a group of subjective opinions, is a fact.

No it isn't.

What point are you making?

That the existence of God/the Holy Spirit/any other religious belief is NOT a scientific fact.

You were saying science has a "nature" and that you intuited the significance of that.

I don't think the word "intuit" means what you think it means.

No one said you couldn't rejumble what I said, just that you would have to show where the new interpretation applies to the old interpretation (of those words?).

Your interpretation seems to be utterly nonsense. There's no point in trying to figure out some interpretation.

 

[Gottservant]

No it isn't.

It is a fact, the same way a group of Heavenly bodies, is a fact about gravity.

That the existence of God/the Holy Spirit/any other religious belief is NOT a scientific fact.

No but a change in character in a group of people, is.

Go where the evidence leads, if a Man on a cross changes people's ideas about "humanity" that He hung on that cross is a significant fact.

Do people stop being "people" simply because you give their being "people" no weight?

I would say it is you, that is ignoring fact?

 

[Kylie]

It is a fact, the same way a group of Heavenly bodies, is a fact about gravity.

No.

A subjective opinion doesn't become a fact, no matter how many people believe it.

No but a change in character in a group of people, is.

Go where the evidence leads, if a Man on a cross changes people's ideas about "humanity" that He hung on that cross is a significant fact.

Do people stop being "people" simply because you give their being "people" no weight?

I would say it is you, that is ignoring fact?

People changing their opinion about someone is NOT the same thing as that person's character changing.

 

[Gottservant]

No.

A subjective opinion doesn't become a fact, no matter how many people believe it.

Which you are trying to complain is "fact" all on your lonesome?

The point you are missing, is that those "people" don't cease to be changed, when someone comes along and says "I haven't (changed)". It's not being part of a fact, that changes them.

People changing their opinion about someone is NOT the same thing as that person's character changing.

That's true.

One takes time.

 

[Kylie]

Which you are trying to complain is "fact" all on your lonesome?

Not just me.

I don't think you'll find anyone who claims that subjective opinions can become an objective fact if enough people believe it.

The point you are missing, is that those "people" don't cease to be changed, when someone comes along and says "I haven't (changed)". It's not being part of a fact, that changes them.

This has nothing to do with anything I've been saying.

 

[Gottservant]

Not just me.

I don't think you'll find anyone who claims that subjective opinions can become an objective fact if enough people believe it.

You've never heard the expression "it's all relative"?

You're basically saying "if it's fact, everybody has to believe it".

This has nothing to do with anything I've been saying.

You're going out on a limb with the idea that people changing is not a fact; I'm reminding you that the test of being a fact, is the intensity with which you believe it, not the context in which you think you are able to keep it.

But all this is a distraction to the point, there is more to the Holy Spirit, if you trust Him, than if you assume He is there.

 

[Kylie]

You've never heard the expression "it's all relative"?

You're basically saying "if it's fact, everybody has to believe it".

That's not how facts work.

You're going out on a limb with the idea that people changing is not a fact; I'm reminding you that the test of being a fact, is the intensity with which you believe it, not the context in which you think you are able to keep it.

But all this is a distraction to the point, there is more to the Holy Spirit, if you trust Him, than if you assume He is there.

I never said it wasn't a fact.

And you are right, this is getting away from the point.

The Holy Spirit is not a scientific fact because there is no scientific test you can perform to show that the Holy Spirit exists.

 

[Gottservant]

That's not how facts work.

If enough people believed it, you would start to change your mind?

I never said it wasn't a fact.

And you are right, this is getting away from the point.

The Holy Spirit is not a scientific fact because there is no scientific test you can perform to show that the Holy Spirit exists.

I can't let you try to put that one past us: your cunning is that you say science is the source of all authority, so someone whose discoveries are counter-intuitive you say "He is doing that without authority"; the reality is "truth makes fact easier and lighter, than fact can ever make truth "true"".

The Holy Spirit gives you the truth, because He has a love of the truth and we are like Him, we all love the truth - the authority we have, is that we are verified by those present with us!

You will have to decide, whether you stand with us - but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord!

 

[Kylie]

If enough people believed it, you would start to change your mind?

If 100 people believed you were a giraffe, would you accept it as a fact that you were a giraffe?

What about if it was 1000 people? A million? What if every person on the planet believed you were a giraffe? Would that make it a fact that you were a giraffe? How many people would it take?

I can't let you try to put that one past us: your cunning is that you say science is the source of all authority, so someone whose discoveries are counter-intuitive you say "He is doing that without authority"; the reality is "truth makes fact easier and lighter, than fact can ever make truth "true"".

The Holy Spirit gives you the truth, because He has a love of the truth and we are like Him, we all love the truth - the authority we have, is that we are verified by those present with us!

You will have to decide, whether you stand with us - but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord!

What in the world are you talking about?

Science is not a religion.

Science does not act like a religion.

Stop treating science as though it is a religion.

 

[Gottservant]

If 100 people believed you were a giraffe, would you accept it as a fact that you were a giraffe?

What about if it was 1000 people? A million? What if every person on the planet believed you were a giraffe? Would that make it a fact that you were a giraffe? How many people would it take?

Eventually, I would start doing giraffe things, yes.

This is not an admission of guilt, but of vulnerability (to madness).

What in the world are you talking about?

Science is not a religion.

Science does not act like a religion.

Stop treating science as though it is a religion.

And you are a lone ranger, for science, are you?

Getting dirty with other people, is beneath you?

I don't need to tell you where that goes, if Science is not at least in part, to do with who you involve?

 

[Kylie]

Eventually, I would start doing giraffe things, yes.

This is not an admission of guilt, but of vulnerability (to madness).

But you would not BE a giraffe, would you?

And you are a lone ranger, for science, are you?

Getting dirty with other people, is beneath you?

I don't need to tell you where that goes, if Science is not at least in part, to do with who you involve?

This is completely irrelevant.

You can't expect science to act like a religion. It is not a religion. It does not function the way a religion does.

 

[Gottservant]

But you would not BE a giraffe, would you?

Make up your mind, are you convinced I am invincible to belief or that I am infinitely subject to it?

This is completely irrelevant.

You can't expect science to act like a religion. It is not a religion. It does not function the way a religion does.

As I have said before

There is something that can't be discovered, unless everyone is included (selah)

You can treat me like dirt all you want, but in the end it will be your "science" that 'suffers'.

 

[Kylie]

Make up your mind, are you convinced I am invincible to belief or that I am infinitely subject to it?

I have never been inconsistent here.

I have been saying that it doesn't matter how many people believed you to be a giraffe, you would never actually transform into one. You would always be a person.

You can treat me like dirt all you want, but in the end it will be your "science" that 'suffers'.

Do you think I am treating you like dirt?

 

[DiscipleOfChrist85]

Make up your mind, are you convinced I am invincible to belief or that I am infinitely subject to it?



As I have said before

You can treat me like dirt all you want, but in the end it will be your "science" that 'suffers'.

The only one who is suffering is you and your religion.

 

[The happy Objectivist]

In your opinion, what is the greatest scientific discovery, invention, tool, breakthrough, idea, attempt, contribution, mistake, catastrophe, hoax, joke, or whatever of all time?

It's a toss-up between the electric motor, the internal combustion motor, and the bicycle. I lean towards the bicycle. Fun, exercise, and transportation all rolled into one. And did I mention it's fun? OH, and Objectivism.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's a toss-up between the electric motor, the internal combustion motor, and the bicycle. I lean towards the bicycle. Fun, exercise, and transportation all rolled into one. And did I mention it's fun? OH, and Objectivism.

WOW -- haven't seen you post for awhile -- welcome back!

 

[The happy Objectivist]

WOW -- haven't seen you post for awhile -- welcome back!

Yeah, I don't have much time to post these days. Insanely busy with work but I love it. Actually, I should have said work is the greatest thing ever discovered. It is my best friend. I would say that I'm very fortunate to work at a job that I love but it wasn't luck. I had to work incredibly hard to get there and it was all worth it. If you want to know the meaning of life it is productive achievement.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

No.

A subjective opinion doesn't become a fact, no matter how many people believe it.

He may be confusing 'fact' for 'truth', as in coherence truth - that which coheres with a framework or set of beliefs.

 

[jaime n morris]

In your opinion, what is the greatest scientific discovery, invention, tool, breakthrough, idea, attempt, contribution, mistake, catastrophe, hoax, joke, or whatever of all time?