Mysterious ancestry

[Drotar]

I've recently undergone a fascinating and mysterious study of ancestry. According to Gen. 10, Noah had three sons: Shem, Japheth, and Ham.

Shem received blessings from Noah. His descendants are the Israelites, and the Arabs.

Japheth also received blessings from Noah. His descendants are those from Europaen ancestry, such as the French, German, Swiss, British, etc.

Ham was admonished and received maledictions from Noah. His descendants are from Africa and Egypt.

My questions is of my ancestry. The Bible gives absolutely no answers for us or for Native Americans. No definitive verses or clues or anything. The Mormons say that we came from Japheth and that Native Americans came from Shem. The idea that we came from Japheth fits because the name in Hebrew is prophetic and means "to enlarge". Right now, the mainland iof China alone is overpopulated with over 1 billion.

Then again, my church suggests that we came from Ham. Since the Far East was one of the last places to receive the gospel message of salvation and Christian influence, the cause can be drawn back to the sovereignty of God and the curse of Ham.

I think that we came from Shem. Physically, native Americans and us certainly look more like a Jew or Arab than someone from inner Africa, or northern Europe. But that doesn't work because then we, like Jews and Arabs, would thus be Semitic (Shem-ite [ic]). To claim that would be sacrilege.

What do y'all think? I'm at a dead end. All thoughts are helpful.

 

[nikolai_42]

I've recently undergone a fascinating and mysterious study of ancestry. According to Gen. 10, Noah had three sons: Shem, Japheth, and Ham.

Shem received blessings from Noah. His descendants are the Israelites, and the Arabs.

Japheth also received blessings from Noah. His descendants are those from Europaen ancestry, such as the French, German, Swiss, British, etc.

Ham was admonished and received maledictions from Noah. His descendants are from Africa and Egypt.

My questions is of my ancestry. The Bible gives absolutely no answers for us or for Native Americans. No definitive verses or clues or anything. The Mormons say that we came from Japheth and that Native Americans came from Shem. The idea that we came from Japheth fits because the name in Hebrew is prophetic and means "to enlarge". Right now, the mainland iof China alone is overpopulated with over 1 billion.

Then again, my church suggests that we came from Ham. Since the Far East was one of the last places to receive the gospel message of salvation and Christian influence, the cause can be drawn back to the sovereignty of God and the curse of Ham.

I think that we came from Shem. Physically, native Americans and us certainly look more like a Jew or Arab than someone from inner Africa, or northern Europe. But that doesn't work because then we, like Jews and Arabs, would thus be Semitic (Shem-ite [ic]). To claim that would be sacrilege.

What do y'all think? I'm at a dead end. All thoughts are helpful.

I can't go into detail here and now, nor give a reference (not with me) but there is strong evidence that most American Indians (i.e. those predating Columbus) came from China, to Siberia, over the Bering Strait (which was a land bridge at the time) and scattered throughout North America. Along with that are strong assertions that there were Scandinavian peoples who predate even the Indians (or at least co-existed and in some cases intermarried). Apparently there have been skeletons found (dated at many hundreds of years old) in Ohio which feature very tall people (8 feet tall and more) and many even have 6 fingers on each hand and 5 toes on each foot. Biblically, there was at least one race like that. So today's American Indians are tied very closely to the ancient Chinese (dental records proved this, apparently) but also have some Scandinavian blood, very possibly. Now, as to where the Scandinavians came from...

 

[Philip]

I can't go into detail here and now, nor give a reference (not with me) but there is strong evidence that most American Indians (i.e. those predating Columbus) came from China, to Siberia, over the Bering Strait (which was a land bridge at the time) and scattered throughout North America.

There is growing evidence that there was at least one trans-pacific (island hopping) migration.

Along with that are strong assertions that there were Scandinavian peoples who predate even the Indians (or at least co-existed and in some cases intermarried).

This is much more recent.

Apparently there have been skeletons found (dated at many hundreds of years old) in Ohio which feature very tall people (8 feet tall and more) and many even have 6 fingers on each hand and 5 toes on each foot. Biblically, there was at least one race like that.

I would like to see the citation for that, if you have the time.

 

[Drotar]

I completely agree. That's why I asked on behalf of both of us. Where did the Asians and Native Americans come from?

I am interested in hearing more on this bit about early Scandinavian peoples.

 

[Philip]

I think that we came from Shem. Physically, native Americans and us certainly look more like a Jew or Arab than someone from inner Africa, or northern Europe. But that doesn't work because then we, like Jews and Arabs, would thus be Semitic (Shem-ite [ic]).

Any similarity in appearence between the Semetic peoples and the Native Americans is purely superficial. Genetically, they are not closely related. Genetically, the peoples of the Americas are most closely related to those of East Asia.

To claim that would be sacrilege.

I am interested in hearing more on this bit about early Scandinavian peoples.

"Early" Scandinavian peoples are relatively recent. They did not arise as a group until well after the migration of Asians to America. It is probably that Scandinavians crossed the Atlantic 1000 years ago, but the Native Americans were here long before that.

 

[Drotar]

If genetics has disproven that, then we are not from Shem.

What is your hypothesis? I would really like to know the evidences.

 

[SonWorshipper]

You might find this interesting:

The Characteristics of Shem, Ham, and Japheth

This was the conclusion:​

Thirdly, the contribution of Shem has been a spiritual one, of Ham a technological one, and of Japheth an intellectual one. In the process of history, these contributions were made effective in that order.​

The article has a extensive list of Hamatic discoveries.

Link----->Possible Origin of Native Americans

Japheth had seven sons: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech and Tiras (Gen. 10: 2). Tiras is the possible ancestor of native Americans, usually having broad facial appearance and prominent cheekbones. The people that inhabit Southeast Asia in present times are Gomer’s descendants, according to previous-century historian Dr Herman L Hoeh. It is claimed by Dr Benjamin Rea that Magog, Tubal and Meshech passed through between the Black and Caspian Seas (initially from Palestine) north and eastwards. Magog is the sizeable region occupied by the Mongoloids. Assyrian inscriptions suggest that the descendants of Tubal today inhabit the area surrounding Tobol'sk, Russia. The commonly accepted translation of Meshech is Mishi or arguably Moscow. Madai is the father of the Medes (West Iranian-speaking Indo-Europeans 600–500 BC) – today the Ukrainians, according to Jewish historian Joseph ben Matthias (Latinized to Josephus ?37–?100 AD) and Roman writer Pliny the Elder (Gaius Plinius Secundus 23–79 AD). In like the manner, Javan is Greece.

 

[Drotar]

Where did you find that article?

Thanks for clearing this up! Japheth... hmmm.

 

[Drotar]

I researched it a little more.

This one goes more in-depth and offers evidences.

http://www.bible-truth.org/race.htm

This one says that we're from Ham and are the Canaanites:

http://www.osterholm.info/man/

This is the most in-depth one:

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/bb000319.htm

 

[nikolai_42]

There is growing evidence that there was at least one trans-pacific (island hopping) migration.

This is much more recent.



I would like to see the citation for that, if you have the time.

I will try and locate it. There is a biblical archeology magazine that indicated some findings. I hope we still have it.

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AND IN HIS MOST RECENT POST, PHILIP SAID:

Early" Scandinavian peoples are relatively recent. They did not arise as a group until well after the migration of Asians to America. It is probably that Scandinavians crossed the Atlantic 1000 years ago, but the Native Americans were here long before that.

It's quite possible, but one of the interesting characteristics about these peoples (who are supposed to have been Scandinavian) was that they had 6 fingers on each hand and 6 toes on each foot. Now, that goes back MUCH further than just 1000 years ago. That characteristic was around in King David's time (the bible mentions it in 2 Samuel 21:20 - this genetic trait is still around today in various places around the world).

 

[SonWorshipper]

This is the link to the first
The Characteristics of Shem, Ham, and Japheth

And the second: Link----->Possible Origin of Native Americans