My turn on the gay issue

[Full_Moon]

All this talk about homosexual practices.. My turn!

I don't get what the confusion is about. Perhaps I'm just a simple fellow but the Law seems clear.

# Leviticus 18:22
[BIBLE]" 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.[/BIBLE]
This comes from the section on sexual morality, after the command not to sleep with your mom and right before the one that says not to sleep with your dog.

Now I know some people probably will think "The law doesn't apply anymore", but Jesus taught from the Law and upheld it as valid.

MT 5: [BIBLE]"18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."[/BIBLE]

Now some will gripe, saying how difficult it would be to uphold ever single Law. Which is why at the Jerusalem council it was decided:

[BIBLE]Acts 15 "19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.""[/BIBLE]

So even the most liberal demands in fulfilling the laws requirements still include the law regarding to sexual morality.

So as it stands, the Law stands:

[BIBLE]'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.[/BIBLE]


Why is there a debate then?

 

[Blank123]

Why is there a debate then?

because if people can't debate it they'd have to submit to what the Scriptures say.

 

[PinkTulip]

No doubt. You are so brilliant

 

[Phil4987]

Because of the pointless, and unproved doctrine of Biblical Inerrancy?

edit*

 

[intricatic]

My take: Your take is correct.

 

[davedjy]

Because even the best of Scholars agree that is a purity code violation that we no longer consider.

Any more "Breakthrough" threads you want to start?
did you have to start a new thread to get our attention, we know all these "clobber" passages, but they don't really address what some of us know to be true...this is false doctrine that it's wrong to be gay or life a "homosexual lifestyle".

 

[davedjy]

No doubt. You are so brilliant

If it was so brilliant, we wouldn't currently have 28 denominations that disagree with condemning homosexuals.

 

[TaoistChristian]

My thing:

I have several gay friends; love em' all to pieces.

I'm not gonna walk up to them and say they're going ta' hell just because theyz gay. Doesn't seem to go over well. Instead, I let them walk their own personal "Way", until God would so have it they change, if they change.

A young bird will not fly if simply thrown into the air; it will fly only in the moment it is meant to.

 

[holo]

Because of the pointless, and unproved doctrine of Biblical Inerrancy?

edit*

*ghasp*

/me faints

 

[Der Alte]

If it was so brilliant, we wouldn't currently have 28 denominations that disagree with condemning homosexuals.

Source?

 

[Der Alte]

Because even the best of Scholars agree that is a purity code violation that we no longer consider.

Logical fallacy, "appeal to authority." Unknown, unnamed, vague, "the best of scholars." So far you have only quoted one guy Tony Campolo, who says that.

 

[Full_Moon]

Because even the best of Scholars agree that is a purity code violation that we no longer consider.

Any more "Breakthrough" threads you want to start?
did you have to start a new thread to get our attention, we know all these "clobber" passages, but they don't really address what some of us know to be true...this is false doctrine that it's wrong to be gay or life a "homosexual lifestyle".

Are you joking with me? (I'll take you seriously)

First. It is entirely irrelevant what "we" think of something or how "we" regard it. What matters is what Jesus teaches and how He regards it. Are you a follower or humanity (we) or human wisdom (your so called scholars) or are you a follower of Christ???

It is valid to argue from authority, but to argue against God's law by human authority is a weak argument before Christians.

Anyways, to the claim you make in that it is a matter of purity code (whatever that means) and no longer valid for us, I would point you to the last quote I posted originally about those who break even the least of the laws and teach others to do the same. Calling any part of the law meaningless may not be the worst crime in the world, but it is a slander against God who gave that law and a contradiction to Christ's teaching about the law (again, the last quote in the original post).

Yet lets entertain the idea that this law is a matter of some meaningless purity code.
Having sex with your mom. Having sex with your dog. Having sex with your sister. Having sex with your daughter. Having sex with your grandchild. All these are included in this section of law. Do you really mean to say that such things are simply a matter of 'purity code' and somehow do not matter for us?? They are all perverted acts.

Let the scholar speak for himself and openly say that the law regarding sexual morality doesn't matter anymore or that it is 'only' a purity code.

Read the section carefully, I will post it last. If you can then honestly say it is a section of law that matters not, then do so intelligently. For you will also be condoning every form of sexual perversion also included in that same section.

Regardless, as with the second last quote I posted originally, the law regarding sexual morality was stressed as extremely important for gentile Christians to abide in by the Jerusalem council.

Just as Jesus taught that every other sin happens outside of ones body, but sexual sin happens inside ones own body and is especially destructive. It is dangerous because we can't physically see the harm and because it corrupts us from within.

Beware.

 

[Full_Moon]

Here is the section of law that includes the decree that a man shall not lie with another man as he lies with a woman. It should be quite obvious that it is not a small matter or meaningless section of law by any stretch of the imagination. All of these acts are sexually immoral whether we like it or not.



Unlawful Sexual Relations

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.

6 " 'No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.

7 " 'Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 " 'Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative.

13 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative.

14 " 'Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.

16 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 " 'Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 " 'Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

19 " 'Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.

21 " 'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed [a] to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

23 " 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 " 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 " 'Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.' "

 

[Full_Moon]

My thing:

I have several gay friends; love em' all to pieces.

I'm not gonna walk up to them and say they're going ta' hell just because theyz gay. Doesn't seem to go over well. Instead, I let them walk their own personal "Way", until God would so have it they change, if they change.

A young bird will not fly if simply thrown into the air; it will fly only in the moment it is meant to.

Thanks for your comment.

It is important to keep in mind that people who are sexually immoral (who isn't?) are part of God's creation also. These are the people who Christ came and died for. The church is around for people who struggle with sin. Basically what I'm trying to say is that anyone who is willing to condemn another for a homosexual act is condemning themself for whatever degree of sexual immorality they live in.

While it is dishonest to condone what God condemns (sin), it is also our command to love one another as Christ loves us.

Who here would give up their life to spare our local homosexual from his/her sin? Christ has done such for the saved. It is a powerful testimony to love someone regardless of their sins. I believe it takes a Christian for that.

 

[Full_Moon]

That's it?

One person tried to say that the law regarding sexual morality doens't matter... he is free to believe what he wants.

But as far as the debate over what is sexually moral or not is concerned... isn't there anything more to it other than to deny sexual morality entirely????

 

[intricatic]

I demand a redress of the rep system on CF!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Full_Moon again.

 

[ScottBot]

because if people can't debate it they'd have to submit to what the Scriptures say.

Ouch.

 

[Full_Moon]

172 views and that is it?

What is all the fuss about if no one can deny the validity of this law?

 

[Full_Moon]

oops

 

[PinkTulip]

The law is old news. Didn't you know? I guess that is why God wrote a new book. Maybe God got bored, decided the OT didn't matter anymore. Maybe he will write the NNT (New, New Testament) where hell doesn't exist, Jesus doesn't matter, and sinning is okay. The premise of the book will be: "It feels good to me and I am not harming anyone, then it must be OK."