My take on original sin

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I would disagree this is the way to interpret Scripture.

See my OP: Is Romans 7:9 a proof text for the Age of Accountability?

Paul says that before the awareness of the Law, he had no consciousness of sin. But when he became aware of the Law, and knew that he could not keep it perfectly, he then had the consciousness of sin, and as a Pharisee, observed the Old Testament sacrificial rituals to have his sins cleansed once a year through the action of the High Priest. So, when he was trained as a Pharisee, he would have been made aware of the Law, and so as a young man he would have been made conscious of sin. When his conscience was developed to the point of know right from wrong, we don't know, but it is certain that he became aware of the Law under the mentorship of Gamaliel, so we can accept that at that point when Gamaliel taught him the requirements of the Law, he would have realised that he was a sinner because he knew that he could not keep it perfectly. He did say that he was blameless according to the Law, but observance to the Law in the Old Testament consisted of outward acts. But Paul would have known that he had thoughts of hatred, anger and lust at times which would have made him aware of his sinfulness, and therefore participated in the sacrifices. It was when he was converted to Christ that he realised that he had died in his sins, and was made alive in Christ.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

When his conscience was developed to the point of know right from wrong,

Where does Scripture say a "conscience" is "developed" from right and wrong.

 

[JoeT]

No. We are made in the image of Adam.

Genesis 5:1-3
When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind”[a] when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.

I disagree with you. God said “Let us make man to our image and likeness” [Genesis 1:26].

Christ is said to be every bit human as you and I [Cf. Hebrews 4:15], yet it is said that Christ is the progeny of God. "[Christ] who being the brightness of his glory, and the [express image, and most perfect resemblance] of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high." [Hebrews 1:3] Are not your children begotten, the express image and resemblance of you?

Man is a created being. Is Jesus Christ "created" or "begotten" just as man begets his progeny? Are you denying the Divinity of Christ? If not, just when did His humanness adopt His Divinity? Was He God in the womb, at what point in His life was He God outside the womb? Was your God, Jesus Christ, begotten of man? I wonder because mine wasn't.

JoeT

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

This is jibberish. I am done with this conversation.

 

[JoeT]

This is jibberish. I am done with this conversation.

Very good.

JoeT

 

[jonojim1337]

I'm not sure if "living in sin" and "being aware of one's sin" are the same thing. You can live in sin and not be aware of it, or you can live in it and be aware of it, as Paul did from the Law. Thus Paul saw the need for salvation, which is perhaps not obvious to everyone.

The Law has no power to save, only to show you transgression. Nor was it added to save anyone, only to show transgressions.

 

[JoeT]

I'm not sure if "living in sin" and "being aware of one's sin" are the same thing. You can live in sin and not be aware of it, or you can live in it and be aware of it, as Paul did from the Law. Thus Paul saw the need for salvation, which is perhaps not obvious to everyone.

The Law has no power to save, only to show you transgression. Nor was it added to save anyone, only to show transgressions.

When was it "added"? If you are not aware of sin is it sin or is it simply an evil deed? And, is it not true that Paul is speaking of the law of nature or is it some other law?

JoeT

 

[jonojim1337]

When was it "added"? If you are not aware of sin is it sin or is it simply an evil deed? And, is it not true that Paul is speaking of the law of nature or is it some other law?

JoeT

430 years after Abraham. According to Paul, the law is governed by "elemental spiritual forces", whatever that means.

I think Paul is asking, is it better to not know the law, so as to not be guilty of sin? But the truth is, we are already guilty of sin. Thus if it wasn't clear from the beginning it sure is clear with the law, and even the more so.

 

[jonojim1337]

Let me put it this way, without the law you and me could discuss for ages on end what is sin and what is not. Thanks to the law, no such discussion is needed.

 

[JoeT]

430 years after Abraham. According to Paul, the law is governed by "elemental spiritual forces", whatever that means.

So we also, when we were children, were serving under the elements of the world [Galatians 4:3]. The law mentioned here is a worldly law of fire, water, earth and wind. Paul goes on to say, "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman, made under the law" [Galatians 4:4]. Thus He is proclaiming that Jesus Christ was born of woman, just as you and I, under the natural law.

I think Paul is asking, is it better to not know the law, so as to not be guilty of sin? But the truth is, we are already guilty of sin. Thus if it wasn't clear from the beginning it sure is clear with the law, and even the more so.

If the law of St. Paul means that we are born with the false claim of "sin nature". Then we would rightly have a claim against our accuser, God. First to make us with the nature of sin, then to accuse us of having a sinful nature, then lay guilt and punishment on us. But, that's isn't the way things are, is it.

JoeT

 

[jonojim1337]

So we also, when we were children, were serving under the elements of the world [Galatians 4:3]. The law mentioned here is a worldly law of fire, water, earth and wind. Paul goes on to say, "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman, made under the law" [Galatians 4:4]. Thus He is proclaiming that Jesus Christ was born of woman, just as you and I, under the natural law.

He is specifically talking about the Law given 430 years after Abraham. But he says the Law has "guardians", and it was "given by angels", "through a mediator". I think he is trying to say it is not the full revelation of God.

If the law of St. Paul means that we are born with the false claim of "sin nature". Then we would rightly have a claim against our accuser, God. First to make us with the nature of sin, then to accuse us of having a sinful nature, then lay guilt and punishment on us. But, that's isn't the way things are, is it.

JoeT

Huh? The wrath of God remains upon anyone who reject Christ. We are born into the prison of sin.

It's the opposite from the Garden. In the Garden you are made holy and perfect, and then fall into sin. Here in the world you are born into sin, and can be delivered through the blood.