My struggle with bibles

[BobRyan]

I don't use the Catholic Bible for the same reason I tend not to use other Bibles produced by only one group. IT is hard to get a balanced rendering if everyone on the team is skewed to a certain POV.

 

[Zao is life]

Um, how is 'trusting in your own studies and rational powers' working out for all those who trust in their own studies and rational powers and end up disagreeing with others who trust their own studies and rational powers?

I disagree with what your question implies, because what you just said implies that if you happen to have the word Catholic describe your faith, then the studies and (human) rational powers of the Catholics carry more authority wherever these (human) rational powers produce disagreement between Catholics and non-Catholics.

IMO all the problems of the many disagreements between Catholics and non-Catholics, and between non-Catholics and non-Catholics, are derived in the first place from out of this well called "rational powers" because these (human) rational powers are what cause false (and at times even irrational) conclusions among all groups, including (and probably especially) those who claim that their well is "the only true well".

But the apostle of Christ told us that "There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in you all." -- Ephesians 4:4-6,

and Jesus said HE is THE Way, and THE truth, and THE light. (John 14:6).

So Jesus is the one and only true well.

The retail stores all counted together sell a lot of their own truth and light drawn out of their own wells of (human) rational powers.

So Paul says,

"I therefore, the prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the calling with which you are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. -- Ephesians 4:1-3,

which my own non-Catholic observation has taught me Catholics are mostly better at doing than non-Catholics, as long as we non-Catholics don't disagree with their disagreement, or with their asserted authority.

 

[AlexB23]

I don't use the Catholic Bible for the same reason I tend not to use other Bibles produced by only one group. IT is hard to get a balanced rendering if everyone on the team is skewed to a certain POV.

You might like the NRSV. It was compiled by multiple groups of Christian scholars from many denominations. According to Zondervan (a Bible publisher), the NRSV itself was "made by a committee of of men and women who are among the top scholars in America. They come from Protestant denominations, the Roman Catholic church, and the Greek Orthodox Church. The committee also includes a Jewish scholar."

Source:

New Revised Standard Version - Home

Renowned for its beautiful balance of scholarship and readability the NRSV faithfully serves the church in personal spiritual formation, the liturgy, and in the academy. The foremost translation vetted by Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Evangelical, and Jewish scholars invites readers into Scripture

www.zondervan.com

 

[Zao is life]

When I read a Catholic Bible, I am assured that it contains the full canon of Holy Scripture as defined by ancient Church councils and definitively listed by the Councils of Florence and Trent, reaffirmed by the Second Vatican Council. If the Bible includes cross-references, then it will link passages between the Old Testament and the New Testament, including the Deuterocanonical books. If there are annotations provided by the Catholic Church or one of its faithful shepherds (a bishop), then I can trust in their reliability. However, these assurances are not present when I use a Jewish Tanakh or a Protestant Bible. For these reasons, I prefer a Catholic Bible over a Protestant or Jewish one.

For me it would be really nice to have a non-Catholic Bible that includes cross-references and links that include the Deuterocanonical books. And a Catholic Bible to compare it with.

 

[Zao is life]

Christianity has gone the same way as the model God provided for us in Biblical Israel. They started out strong, as a nation and vowing to be one. Over time there was compromise, division, and ultimately destruction, leaving only a small remnant of faithful devotees to God.

Christianity has gone the same route, although on a global level. European Civilization, which has largely carried the banner for Christian Civilization, has fallen back into primitive paganism, upheld by anti-supernatural philosophy, tolerating a plurality of moral expressions. No Church organization has been immune to this anti-religious influence and pressure to compromise. Anybody who says so is part of the problem.

Christianity has always required a spiritual revival of some sort, as well as a reformation of the impurities that have set in. Following judgment there has had to be repentance and recovery, followed by a continuation of the fundamental process that got us here.

IMO that regression into a Godless cultural mindset was the end result of the freedom of religion which came about to free Christians from the tyranny of (what had become) a tyrannical [Catholic] Church.

It was originally meant for freedom of religion for Christians, and it was probably supposed that future generations would always be Christian because previous generations had been Christian ever since Christianity became the official religion of many parts of the Roman Empire, and eventually of "the Holy Roman Empire".

It was princes of the latter empire who defied the Pope at the Augsburg Confession in 1530, sparking a lot of wars between Catholics and Protestants.

The end result of freedom of religion is freedom for all Westerners to choose whom they will serve, and only a remnant will remain by the time Christ returns.

 

[The Liturgist]

For me it would be really nice to have a non-Catholic Bible that includes cross-references and links that include the Deuterocanonical books. And a Catholic Bible to compare it with.

The Orthodox Study Bible is what you want. It’s 100% non-Catholic, assuming by Catholic you mean the denomination headed by the Bishop of Rome, and it provides the full Septuagint, which was the version of the Old Testament predominantly used by the Early Church, which accounts for most of the differences between the Roman Catholic canon and the canons of some Protestant churches

Otherwise, the closest you’re going to get is a full version of the KJV, or the NRSV with Apocrypha, but the NRSV is known for controversial translations. The KJV is probably the only real conservative alternative to the Orthodox Study Bible, but it does not cross-reference or link to the Apocrypha but rather tries to keep it separate, since those Anglican churches which still adhere to the 39 Articles of Religion (which do not include the Episcopal Church USA or the various Continuing Anglican churches) read those books but make a point of not using them as the source for any doctrine, but rather use them for moral instruction and edification.

 

[Zao is life]

I do agree with you there. He might be trying to make a point about how Bibles should not omit scriptures or entire books such as Sirach and other Catholic books. But hey, I use both Protestant and Catholic Bibles (online versions), and I love both versions.

I'm a Protestant who detests the fact that the so-called Apocrypha are excluded from our Bibles. I've seen things a number of times said both by Jesus and His apostles that I've seen in one of those books, almost word-for-word. I can't mention specifics now because I never made record of verses etc when I came across it. But I've seen it a number of times.

 

[Zao is life]

The Orthodox Study Bible is what you want. It’s 100% non-Catholic, assuming by Catholic you mean the denomination headed by the Bishop of Rome, and it provides the full Septuagint, which was the version of the Old Testament predominantly used by the Early Church, which accounts for most of the differences between the Roman Catholic canon and the canons of some Protestant churches

Otherwise, the closest you’re going to get is a full version of the KJV, or the NRSV with Apocrypha, but the NRSV is known for controversial translations. The KJV is probably the only real conservative alternative to the Orthodox Study Bible, but it does not cross-reference or link to the Apocrypha but rather tries to keep it separate, since those Anglican churches which still adhere to the 39 Articles of Religion (which do not include the Episcopal Church USA or the various Continuing Anglican churches) read those books but make a point of not using them as the source for any doctrine, but rather use them for moral instruction and edification.

Thank you

 

[AlexB23]

I'm a Protestant who detests the fact that the so-called Apocrypha are excluded from our Bibles. I've seen things a number of times said both by Jesus and His apostles that I've seen in one of those books, almost word-for-word. I can't mention specifics now because I never made record of verses etc when I came across it. But I've seen it a number of times.

Hey, thank you for including the Apocrypha/Septuagint/Deuterocanonical books. Are you Anglican, by any chance? Anglicans are the closest brethren to the Catholic church.

 

[Zao is life]

Hey, thank you for including the Apocrypha/Septuagint/Deuterocanonical books. Are you Anglican, by any chance? Anglicans are the closest brethren to the Catholic church.

No I'm non-denominational. Came from a partly not even sure if they were Lutheran or Catholic unbelieving family on the right and an unbelieving Methodist family on the left, and they were all neither left nor right, if you get my drift.

So I can go to any church I please and disagree silently as much as I please and agree out loud, so as to not bother the poor fella who has to tend the flock - and I do go to any church I please to go to.

 

[AlexB23]

No I'm non-denominational. Came from a partly not even sure if they were Lutheran or Catholic unbelieving family on the right and an unbelieving Methodist family on the left, and they were all neither left nor right, if you get my drift.

So I can go to any church I please and disagree silently as much as I please and agree out loud, so as to not bother the poor fella who has to tend the flock - and I do go to any church I please to go to.

You are a cool guy brother. I am closer to the the political center as well, It is good that you are open to the other denominations. If you ever want to drop by a Catholic or Orthodox church, feel free. One can not take communion at those churches, until being confirmed though, but you are welcome to worship the Lord.

Anyways, it is getting late here, and I have to watch some Star Trek: Deep Space 9, so we can talk tomorrow, bro. God bless.

 

[AV1611VET]

Looks like Xeno isn't the only one who struggles with Bibles.

 

[Aaron112]

Looks like Xeno isn't the only one who struggles with Bibles.

Trying to carry 153 Bibles may not be helpful.

 

[The Liturgist]

Trying to carry 153 Bibles may not be helpful.

Why would someone carry around their entire library? No one who has that many Bibles does that. I don’t even take a Bible with me when i’m visiting a church (indeed I regard that as a peculiar custom, since every church I have attended has either provided Bibles or else provided material that contains the scriptural lesson of the day in some format).

 

[Valletta]

I think you are too tied to Catholic authority. I understand that that is a "safe place" for you. But one does not have to be a "rebel" to make God Himself your primary authority and then trust in your own studies and rational powers to determine what is right for you. Just my opinion...

There are plenty of Catholic versions of the Bible translated by scholars from numerous religions. Realize that books have been removed from Protestant Bibles, and Catholics believe we are not to add or subtract from the Bible. And Protestant Bibles are translated with a Protestant slant, for example, the translation of Romans 2:6-7.

 

[Diamond72]

I prefer a Catholic Bible over a Protestant or Jewish one.

The Catholic Bible comes from the Hebrew Bible. At least most of the old testament does. People do not realize the Hebrew Bible was oral tradition long before they recorded the Bible.

 

[RileyG]

The Orthodox Study Bible is what you want. It’s 100% non-Catholic, assuming by Catholic you mean the denomination headed by the Bishop of Rome, and it provides the full Septuagint, which was the version of the Old Testament predominantly used by the Early Church, which accounts for most of the differences between the Roman Catholic canon and the canons of some Protestant churches

Otherwise, the closest you’re going to get is a full version of the KJV, or the NRSV with Apocrypha, but the NRSV is known for controversial translations. The KJV is probably the only real conservative alternative to the Orthodox Study Bible, but it does not cross-reference or link to the Apocrypha but rather tries to keep it separate, since those Anglican churches which still adhere to the 39 Articles of Religion (which do not include the Episcopal Church USA or the various Continuing Anglican churches) read those books but make a point of not using them as the source for any doctrine, but rather use them for moral instruction and edification.

I own the OSB but haven't read 3 Maccabees yet.

I've owned it for about 10 years now. Eeek.

 

[RileyG]

Trying to carry 153 Bibles may not be helpful.

I personally use The Jerusalem Bible and leave it at that. Even though I own many, many more.

 

[RileyG]

Protestant denominations are growing, Roman Catholic Churches are shrinking to the point of hundreds of them closing this year alone.

You said “When Catholics have good-faith disagreements, they typically do not divide the church into denominations”

Why then are hundreds of churches closing?

I would say the overall Catholic population is growing throughout the world, but the number of priests and religious (monks and nuns) is shrinking. Thus, why many Churches are closed or merged together due to lack of leaders. Many monasteries have been forced to close due to lack of vocations.

 

[RileyG]

My suggestion - as a staff member - you should really read the forum rules about calling a group not Christian.

It's my understanding the UU no longer considers themselves to be Christian since their merge of Unitarians and Universalists in the 1960s. The Unitarian originally started out as a Christian movement that rejected the Holy Trinity. The modern UUs are a relatively small group (about 700,000 members worldwide).

Many of our former Presidents and politicians, such as John Adams, were Unitarian CHRISTIANS, for example.