My Star of Bethlehem Challenge

[AV1611VET]

According to the Bible, when Jesus was born, His star appeared to the Wise Men and led them on a two year journey to Jerusalem, whereupon it disappeared, leaving the Wise Men to ask about Jesus' whereabouts.

Herod, who didn't see the star, tells them that they need to go to Bethlehem and search for Him.

After departing from Herod, this star reappears and leads them to a specific address.

Explain this phenomenon.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

According to the Bible, when Jesus was born, His star appeared to the Wise Men and led them on a two year journey to Jerusalem, whereupon it disappeared, leaving the Wise Men to ask about Jesus' whereabouts.

Herod, who didn't see the star, tells them that they need to go to Bethlehem and search for Him.

After departing from Herod, this star reappears and leads them to a specific address.

Explain this phenomenon.

It "re"-appeared???? No, I don't think it did. It sat there all along and it is Matthew's narrative that "re"-focused upon its luminary providence.

It didn't "re"-appear.

 

[AV1611VET]

It "re"-appeared???? No, I don't think it did. It sat there all along and it is Matthew's narrative that "re"-focused upon its luminary providence.

It didn't "re"-appear.

Your version of the story doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[NxNW]

According to the Bible, when Jesus was born, His star appeared to the Wise Men and led them on a two year journey to Jerusalem, whereupon it disappeared, leaving the Wise Men to ask about Jesus' whereabouts.

Herod, who didn't see the star, tells them that they need to go to Bethlehem and search for Him.

After departing from Herod, this star reappears and leads them to a specific address.

Explain this phenomenon.

I've never seen any evidence that it ever happened, so I'd say it's more of a legend than a phenomenon.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Your version of the story doesn't fit the narrative.

Don't challenge my biblical Exegesis. Matthew 2:9 doesn't say the astronomical event "re"appeared. Sometimes, I really wonder about the exegetical and hermeneutical lessons at your church, AV. If anything, your insistence that it "re"appeared is an interpolation of "...and lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child." That's not a reappearance. That's simply a new statement about the "star" that had already appeared and was continuing on its trajectory.

Secondly, we don't know that 'the star' was actually an angel, and if there was a phenomenon to explain it, I think one of the several astronomical candidates presented in the following documentary may have provided some kind of background for the coinciding timing with the Birth of Christ (whenever that was) and the Wise Men from the East, giving Matthew an impetus to include it in his Gospel writing:

BBC The Sky at Night - The Real Star of Bethlehem: A Christmas Special - Miguel Montero​

 

[AV1611VET]

Don't challenge my biblical Exegesis.

Fair enough.

I asked for your explanation, and you gave it to me.

Thank you.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

According to the Bible, when Jesus was born, His star appeared to the Wise Men and led them on a two year journey to Jerusalem, whereupon it disappeared, leaving the Wise Men to ask about Jesus' whereabouts.

Herod, who didn't see the star, tells them that they need to go to Bethlehem and search for Him.

After departing from Herod, this star reappears and leads them to a specific address.

Explain this phenomenon.

Probably the difference in our understanding of physics and theirs.

The sun doesn't rise, but we still say it does.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Fair enough.

I asked for your explanation, and you gave it to me.

Thank you.

Let's just be clear that if the phenomenon did in fact disappear and reappear, it did so because of the nature of the actual phenomenon not because Matthew clearly and distinctly indicates that it did. If anything, what Matthew wrote is ambiguous and way too many biblical interpreters seem to jump right in and interpret his meaning in exactly the way you do, which I think is an interpolation borrowed from other astronomical knowledge of possible phenomena and imported into the 'meaning' of Matthew's text.

But Matthew's text itself is ambiguous. We don't know that the 'star' disappeared and reappeared or that is remained static until passing.

 

[AV1611VET]

Let's just be clear that if the phenomenon did in fact disappear and reappear, it did so because of the nature of the actual phenomenon not because Matthew clearly and distinctly indicates that it did.

From AI Overview:

The star, which was a divine or extraordinary manifestation, then guided them directly to the specific house in Bethlehem where Jesus lived.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

From AI Overview:

The star, which was a divine or extraordinary manifestation, then guided them directly to the specific house in Bethlehem where Jesus lived.

So, do you think it was an angel?

 

[AV1611VET]

So, do you think it was an angel?

No.

Some think it was a hologram.

But if it was, others would have seen it too.

Herod, and all Jerusalem, were troubled at an entourage saying they had seen it.

Matthew 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

They would not have been troubled at a new star in the night sky that had been there for two years.

And if this object had not disappeared, the Wise Men would not have had to ask where the Christ Child was.

Matthew 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

 

[Tuur]

Explain this phenomenon.

This is a link to an explanation on YouTube:

 

[BCP1928]

Let's just be clear that if the phenomenon did in fact disappear and reappear, it did so because of the nature of the actual phenomenon not because Matthew clearly and distinctly indicates that it did. If anything, what Matthew wrote is ambiguous and way too many biblical interpreters seem to jump right in and interpret his meaning in exactly the way you do, which I think is an interpolation borrowed from other astronomical knowledge of possible phenomena and imported into the 'meaning' of Matthew's text.

But Matthew's text itself is ambiguous. We don't know that the 'star' disappeared and reappeared or that is remained static until passing.

Some people have speculated that the star was an astrological event which would have been apparent to Magii, but not necessarily to Herod, which is why he didn'r "see" it.

 

[ozso]

So, do you think it was an angel?

I think that's a possibility. What do you think?

 

[Lost4words]

According to the Bible, when Jesus was born, His star appeared to the Wise Men and led them on a two year journey to Jerusalem, whereupon it disappeared, leaving the Wise Men to ask about Jesus' whereabouts.

Herod, who didn't see the star, tells them that they need to go to Bethlehem and search for Him.

After departing from Herod, this star reappears and leads them to a specific address.

Explain this phenomenon.

Simple, God's hand was on the light switch!

 

[ozso]

I like the it was a comet theory too.

 

[David Lamb]

According to the Bible, when Jesus was born, His star appeared to the Wise Men and led them on a two year journey to Jerusalem, whereupon it disappeared, leaving the Wise Men to ask about Jesus' whereabouts.

Herod, who didn't see the star, tells them that they need to go to Bethlehem and search for Him.

After departing from Herod, this star reappears and leads them to a specific address.

Explain this phenomenon.

Not so. They saw the star when in their home country "in the East," but they only followed the star from Jerusalem to Bethlehem:

“1 ¶ Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.” 3 When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. 5 So they said to him, “In Bethlehem of Judea, for thus it is written by the prophet: 6 ‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, Are not the least among the rulers of Judah; For out of you shall come a Ruler Who will shepherd My people Israel.’” 7 Then Herod, when he had secretly called the wise men, determined from them what time the star appeared. 8 And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the young Child, and when you have found Him, bring back word to me, that I may come and worship Him also.””

“9 ¶ When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great joy.” (Mt 2:1-10 NKJV)

There is nothing there to suggest that they followed the star all the way from "the East" to Bethlehem via Jerusalem. They said to Herod, "We have seen His star in the East," not "We have followed His star from the East."

 

[Jerry N.]

This is a link to an explanation on YouTube:

The astrological conjunction is a pretty good explanation. I have read that the Magi may have been decedents of Jews who never left Babylon. Maybe not, but they surely knew Jews in Babylon. This would explain why nobody else noticed it, including shepherds. The Magi would have known what the astrological event meant. However, the “reappearance” was probably miraculous. There was plenty of that going on at the time. The disappearance and reappearance could also have been the weather.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Some people have speculated that the star was an astrological event which would have been apparent to Magii, but not necessarily to Herod, which is why he didn'r "see" it.

yeah.

It's from the song Come Sail Away by the rock group Styx. One of the verses goes "A gathering of angels appeared around my head..." and a later verse says "...much to my surprise, they climbed aboard a starship..." I won't quote more due to fair use concerns.

Happen to remember the song due to the second verse, which are surprisingly good lyrics for any song, much less this one.

And yes, this Styx isn't in the bible, either.

One of my favorite songs of all time.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think that's a possibility. What do you think?

Besides the historical and intercultural explanations that someone like Geza Vermes offers in his book, The Nativity (pp. 89-104), I personally think the phenomenon was one of the astronomical events mentioned in the BBC video I posted, and Matthew, being aware of it later on, included a generic reference to its coincidence with the Birth of Christ in his gospel.