My Rudiments Challenge

[AV1611VET]

This challenge is for theistic evolutionists, but anyone may answer.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Name a rudiment.

 

[John Hyperspace]

This challenge is for theistic evolutionists, but anyone may answer.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Name a rudiment.

The word "rudiments/elements" used here is the Greek "stoicheia/on" which means "march" or "course of direction" as used in these passages (rudiments/elements/principles): Galatians 4:3, Galatians 4:9, Colossians 2:8, Colossians 2:20, Hebrews 5:12, 2 Peter 3:10-12. It is meaning all of these things "vain philosophy" "traditions of men" and even "the law" which is called the "weak and beggarly 'stoicheia'": Galatians 4:3-5, Hebrews 7:18. Basically any earthly doctrine or understanding is the "stoicheia of the world"

People often look at the words of Peter concerning the passing away of the "elements" as though he is talking about material things, but he is talking about all earthly understanding, which will pass away in time with the day of the Lord, when all deception is brought to an end through the everlasting gospel (which is the everlasting fire which destroys the "stoicheion").

 

[AV1611VET]

People often look at the words of Peter concerning the passing away of the "elements" as though he is talking about material things, but he is talking about all earthly understanding, which will pass away in time with the day of the Lord, when all deception is brought to an end through the everlasting gospel (which is the everlasting fire which destroys the "stoicheion").

Why can't it be both?

 

[John Hyperspace]

Why can't it be both?

Give me a minute. I just realized you have over 3,000,000 messages and am currently experiencing inability to formulate rational thought.

 

[AV1611VET]

Give me a minute. I just realized you have over 3,000,000 messages and am currently experiencing inability to formulate rational thought.

Most of them are from hyperspace!

 

[ohm_resistor]

One should remain pure and safe from the influence of others' philosophy. As an atheist I actually fear de-converting someone. I would never want to take someone's faith from them. Who knows...I could be wrong! Should I then not stand up for my beliefs when I am presented with religious people who would attempt to convert me to their faith?

What if by becoming a Christian I become overcome by guilt and scrupulosity? What if my attempts to understand an ineffable God lead me to more pain than I can imagine?

Some people gain happiness from their faith and that is good! Some get pain and torment. Some can turn that torment into a better faith, some cannot.

Should I protect myself from you or should you protect yourself from me?

Whose vanity should reign supreme? The vanity of knowledge without evidence or the vanity of evidence without wisdom?

 

[AV1611VET]

As an atheist I actually fear de-converting someone.

Why are you here then?

And we Christians have a [great] commission to deconvert others.

 

[durangodawood]

....As an atheist I actually fear de-converting someone. I would never want to take someone's faith from them. Who knows...I could be wrong!....

Same here!

I will challenge the believers bad reasoning all day long... but not her faith.

 

[Strathos]

KJV only-ism

 

[ohm_resistor]

Why are you here then?

I love to argue with people who I feel are factually incorrect. I'm more than happy to debate faith as well, because I've seen plenty of Christians who simply cannot abide the fact that others may not share their faith.

I'm mostly interested more in science and politics, though. Two things where faith sometimes throws sand in the gears.

And we Christians have a [great] commission to deconvert others.

So we are pitched in unbalanced battle, then, eh? What if I told you I felt I had to leave Christianity because it was destroying me? Are you familiar with scrupulosity? I guarantee you it can cause devastating and unending pain. I used to suffer from it and decades of the guilt and pain piled up. It was awful. I've met others who suffer from it worse than I!

For some people, like Martin Luther who likely suffered from it, they could build a faith that helped them. For people like me I had to get away from it.

My move to atheism didn't solve all my problems, even in terms of scrupulosity. I still have a relatively rigid moral code by which I wish to live. But it has eased somewhat giving up on the idea of omniscient invisible beings who were watching my every thought day and night.

The usual arguments those of faith will have will be an attempt to mollify those fears by saying "God loves you! You can't offend God...he knows you didn't want to offend Him!" but you forget, God (presumably) made me with a persistent serotonin imbalance in my brain. You can't just "reason" away OCD (Scrupulosity is a form of this). It is an illness.

For me the way out was to get away from Christianity and a belief in God. (Don't get me wrong, there were many other reasons I left the faith, not just that! Oh heavens no!)

But "converting" me back to Christianity would feel kind of like the equivalent to telling a recovering alcoholic that just one beer after work isn't going to be that bad. I can't take that stuff, even in "moderation".

My suggestion to God, should I find him there on the Throne at the end of my life, is to maybe not create people who suffer from scrupulosity. A disease that can take what is likely the most important relationship a Christian can ever feel and turn it into a living nightmare hell. But then I lack the "wisdom" of creating people in hell.

 

[Heissonear]

I love to argue with people who I feel are factually incorrect. I'm more than happy to debate faith as well, because I've seen plenty of Christians who simply cannot abide the fact that others may not share their faith.

I'm mostly interested more in science and politics, though. Two things where faith sometimes throws sand in the gears.



So we are pitched in unbalanced battle, then, eh? What if I told you I felt I had to leave Christianity because it was destroying me? Are you familiar with scrupulosity? I guarantee you it can cause devastating and unending pain. I used to suffer from it and decades of the guilt and pain piled up. It was awful. I've met others who suffer from it worse than I!

For some people, like Martin Luther who likely suffered from it, they could build a faith that helped them. For people like me I had to get away from it.

My move to atheism didn't solve all my problems, even in terms of scrupulosity. I still have a relatively rigid moral code by which I wish to live. But it has eased somewhat giving up on the idea of omniscient invisible beings who were watching my every thought day and night.

The usual arguments those of faith will have will be an attempt to mollify those fears by saying "God loves you! You can't offend God...he knows you didn't want to offend Him!" but you forget, God (presumably) made me with a persistent serotonin imbalance in my brain. You can't just "reason" away OCD (Scrupulosity is a form of this). It is an illness.

For me the way out was to get away from Christianity and a belief in God. (Don't get me wrong, there were many other reasons I left the faith, not just that! Oh heavens no!)

But "converting" me back to Christianity would feel kind of like the equivalent to telling a recovering alcoholic that just one beer after work isn't going to be that bad. I can't take that stuff, even in "moderation".

My suggestion to God, should I find him there on the Throne at the end of my life, is to maybe not create people who suffer from scrupulosity. A disease that can take what is likely the most important relationship a Christian can ever feel and turn it into a living nightmare hell. But then I lack the "wisdom" of creating people in hell.

So, what are you going to discern when you meet Jesus, will it not be rudiments verses His Spiritual Realm Kingdom of Splendor?

Trying to abide in rudiments only? Who is kidding who? The blind?

 

[Heissonear]

A few rudiments:

Stars, sunlight, gravity, how plants grow, how soils form, how one source of uranium was precipitated in the Mesa Verdes sand lens and then extracted for nuclear warheads, the food digestion processes, texting and driving at the same time, .... the lower forms of existing.

 

[quatona]

Name a rudiment.

The Single-Stroke Roll

 

[bobo_mcpherson]

So, what are you going to discern when you meet Jesus, will it not be rudiments verses His Spiritual Realm Kingdom of Splendor?

Didn't the other poster already answer that question?

Trying to abide in rudiments only? Who is kidding who? The blind?

If your faith brings you joy, is your joy lessened if you are unable to call those with different beliefs "blind"?

 

[bobo_mcpherson]

A few rudiments:

Stars, sunlight, gravity, how plants grow, how soils form, how one source of uranium was precipitated in the Mesa Verdes sand lens and then extracted for nuclear warheads, the food digestion processes, texting and driving at the same time, .... the lower forms of existing.

Was that a roll-front deposit in Mesa Verde?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Name a rudiment.

The flamadiddle

The paradiddle

And my favorite for some reason, the paradiddle-diddle

EDIT: LOL! quotana beat me to it....

 

[AV1611VET]

The flamadiddle

Paul is warning us not to drum, is he?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Paul is warning us not to drum, is he?

Why listen to Paul? Ringo was the drummer.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Paul is warning us not to drum, is he?

Then Paul was a heretic. Drums are as close to holy as it gets!!!

Percussion is the root of all music and the most ancient of instruments.
There's nothing like getting lost in a nice groovy rythm.

That's as close to a "spititual experience" as I can get. Once I close that door of that rehearsel room and start banging those pots and pans... it's like that universe outside of that room ceases to exist. There's just me, my sticks and the "badum-bum, psssshhhh". Or in this case, the "pa-ra-did-dle; pa-ra-did-dl;..."

Seriously though, who doesn't like drums?
Those people have no taste... no taste, I tell you!

 

[GrowingSmaller]

This challenge is for theistic evolutionists, but anyone may answer.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Name a rudiment.

Theistic evolution.