My Rock Challenge

[AV1611VET]

I wish they were smart enough to figure out this whole subject of fairy tales and myths.

They're programmed by higher academia that science validates science.

So to them, a book on geology is just as valid as a book on astronomy.

They then carry this programming into the Scriptural world, and treat all writings the same.

And you're absolutely right, they don't have the Holy Spirit to guide them.

 

[Jazer]

Men have told you that the Bible, written by men, is the word of God.

No they did not. I did an extensive search of science for what I was looking for and did not find it. One person advised or even challanged me to try the Bible. I did and I found answers and solutions that science did not offer. I was taught by God not man. In fact I would tend to agree with you that men will lead you astray and you need to be very careful to verify and test what man tells you.

The law, moral or secular, can be a good servant, but it makes a very bad master.

Very few people understand God's law the way Moses and David explains God's law to us. Of course very few people really study what Moses and David has to say about this.

 

[Jazer]

They're programmed by higher academia that science validates science.

They are programmed to give stock answers to standard questions. Often the answer has nothing to do with the question but if you want to pay the game you have to pretend that they are giving you a wonderful response to your inquiry.

It is all based on memorization. You can not get ahead if you do not memorize the so called facts. So when you come along and argue that their facts have not been verified. It is like pulling the carpet out from under them.

 

[AV1611VET]

It is all based on memorization. You can not get ahead if you do not memorize the so called facts.

They pay good money to be programmed like this, and what does the Bible say?

Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

So when you come along and argue that their facts have not been verified. It is like pulling the carpet out from under them.

They must assume their methods are done honestly and completely, and don't even question it.

I noticed that when the Pluto issue came up.

They immediately and automatically accepted what they heard with 100% agreement; and ridiculed me when I held out and refused to accept it.

Later, a girl showed up and pointed out to them what happened behind closed doors; but they still think it was all done honestly and aboveboard, and still give me flack for it.

It's not what we believe, John; it's what we are that makes us targets for their vents and ridicule.

 

[razeontherock]

Men have told you that the Bible, written by men, is the word of God. The word of God is not graven on type and printed in a book. The word of God is written in the stars and stones and the hopes of human beings.

Creation itself is a "book" of God, yes, but I find it odd you would include human hopes in it. I can hope all sorts of ridiculous things not associated with reality, and I'm sure you can too.

The law, moral or secular, can be a good servant, but it makes a very bad master.

It's silly for you to lump the Bible into that category, when only the first 5 books belong there, and almost all of the first of those does not. In fact large portions of the other 4 don't, either.

And as far as the NT goes, Jesus came along and made the law no longer a master, so ... you're a little late with your observation!

 

[Gracchus]

Creation itself is a "book" of God, yes, but I find it odd you would include human hopes in it. I can hope all sorts of ridiculous things not associated with reality, and I'm sure you can too.

I can hope for justice, I can hope for peace, and that may be ridiculous.

It's silly for you to lump the Bible into that category, when only the first 5 books belong there, and almost all of the first of those does not. In fact large portions of the other 4 don't, either.

But the Bible is a graven thing, a dead thing. It tells you only what some men in ancient times thought, and we know that they were wrong about much, not just rocks and stars and the nature of life, but also about human psychology and how best to live in societies.

And as far as the NT goes, Jesus came along and made the law no longer a master, so ... you're a little late with your observation!

And yet so many who claim to be his followers are attempting to force their opinions and views and rituals on those who don't believe as they do. They want everyone to stand and pray at a high school football game and they want every school child to pray to a flag every morning. They want their religion taught to everyone in public schools at public expense.

I might be impressed by Christians if their "Communion Bread" had any reasonable nutritional value, if they built homes for the homeless before they built cathedrals to house a god who doesn't live in them.

 

[razeontherock]

But the Bible is a graven thing, a dead thing.

False! I'm sorry you have never experienced the Life it gives.

It tells you only what some men in ancient times thought, and we know that they were wrong about much, not just rocks and stars and the nature of life, but also about human psychology and how best to live in societies.

This is also entirely false.

And yet so many who claim to be his followers are attempting to force their opinions and views and rituals on those who don't believe as they do. They want everyone to stand and pray at a high school football game and they want every school child to pray to a flag every morning. They want their religion taught to everyone in public schools at public expense.

Whole school of red herring

 

[AV1611VET]

But the Bible is ... a dead thing.

Just the opposite:

Hebrews 4:12a For the word of God is quick,

 

[mzungu]

I wish they were smart enough to figure out this whole subject of fairy tales and myths. But they just do not seem to be up to the tack of making sense out of it. Maybe they got caught in never never land somewhere. Although I know the real reason is they do not have the Holy Spirit of God to guide and lead them into the truth. So they are stuck in their world of deception and error. God makes it abundantly clear who is and who is not approved. As we are always told to study so we can show ourselves approved.

You do realise that arrogance is a sin don't you

 

[Tiberius]

Time.

It was embedded.

Any other objections?

Not only is this false, it is bigotry. And a strawman. (But I guess that's redundant?)

I'll agree with this, provided you can do one thing for me. Please give me an example of how a religious claim has been objectively tested.

I don't know -- God works in mysterious ways.

In other words, you see that it makes absolutely no sense to you, but you are so indoctrinated that you have to believe it anyway.

But let me give you something to go on.

Earlier I saw a post about heat being a byproduct of radioactivity, and that if you squeeze 4.57 billion years into 6000, the resultant heat emitted from this process would destroy creation.

I contend, then, that making a rock with the radiometric age to match its time in existence would result in too little an amount of radiation (or heat) for the amount God meant for it to carry.

If that's true, then God created a 600 year old rock that has 4.57 billion years of radioactive decay, so we should be seeing a destroyed creation. Since the world around is obviously not destroyed (wait a moment, lemme check - nope, not destroyed), obviously God didn't create rocks 6000 years ago that have the appearance of 4.57 billion year old rocks.

So, either the rocks aren't 6000 years old, or the rocks don't appear to be 4.57 billion years old.

Since the rocks definitely DO appear to be 4.57 billion years old, then we can only conclude that they weren't created 6000 years ago (because if they were, the extreme radioactive heat would have destroyed creation, and an examination of reality tells us that obviously hasn't happened.)

(Or are you going to tell us that creation has indeed been destroyed, and reality can take a hike?)

If you don't have anything of value to contribute to this thread, you don't need to prove it.

Funny, I thought it contributed a very good point. That you can make a falsehood that matches all the data, but it is still false.

 

[mzungu]

Do historians inquire?

What don't you understand?

Religion requires FAITH not INQUIRY! Unless you mean reading th3e Bible as constituting inquiry? Also Religious occurrences are not historical facts unless backed by historical evidence.

If Darwinism can review ID literature can ID review Darwinian literature?

If you are referring to Evolution then NO because Evolution is a scientific Theory and as such does not deal with the supernatural!

Didn't Darwinism predict that random mutations and natural selection would be viable? So....what say you about a limited intelligent mechanism which stands as further evidence for the creation and transcendent intelligence of the ancients?

Replace "catapult stones" in last post with "rubbing sticks."

First of all you have to provide evidence that passes peer review and also accurately makes predictions before you can even try to dismiss Evolution and try to pass ID (Creationism) as a viable alternative.

No matter how you cut it; Without empirical evidence you have nothing!

 

[Gracchus]

Just the opposite:

Hebrews 4:12a For the word of God is quick,

And the Bible isn't quick. It doesn't move or change of itself. Ipso facto, the Bible is not the word of God.

Of course you may claim that the Bible has the power to change the actions of some people, but so does money, jewelry and furs have the power to change the actions of some people. Would you argue that jewelry, furs, or money is alive?

Living things reproduce. Do Bibles reproduce sexually or asexually? Or are they manufactured by humans?

 

[Greg1234]

Religion requires FAITH not INQUIRY! Unless you mean reading th3e Bible as constituting inquiry? Also Religious occurrences are not historical facts unless backed by historical evidence.

Do historians inquire?

If you are referring to Evolution then NO because Evolution is a scientific Theory and as such does not deal with the supernatural!

So Darwinism can't review ID literature?

First of all you have to provide evidence that passes peer review and also accurately makes predictions before you can even try to dismiss Evolution and try to pass ID (Creationism) as a viable alternative.

Peer review from which party? Science or inquiry?

No matter how you cut it; Without empirical evidence you have nothing!

Should we relegate Pearl Harbour texts and pick up the "ocean building a Jap fighter aircraft" theory?

 

[Nostromo]

Do historians inquire?

They do, and they often do so in a way that is scientific, though in many cases it is not possible. History is sometimes classified as a social science and sometimes as a humanities subject, because different types of evidence are possible and different techniques can be used to evaluate it.

So Darwinism can't review ID literature?

Ideas don't perform peer review, individuals do. Stop being so sloppy in your use of language.

 

[Greg1234]

They do, and they often do so in a way that is scientific, though in many cases it is not possible. History is sometimes classified as a social science and sometimes as a humanities subject, because different types of evidence are possible and different techniques can be used to evaluate it.

Ok.

Ideas don't perform peer review, individuals do. Stop being so sloppy in your use of language.

Doesn't science say, and doesn't say, and didn't say, and will find?

 

[AV1611VET]

It was embedded.

No, time was not embedded -- age was.

Age, in this case, is a noun -- like 'rock' -- and like a rock, it was embedded into His creation.

Any other objections?

None at the moment.

In other words, you see that it makes absolutely no sense to you, but you are so indoctrinated that you have to believe it anyway.

It's when I walk by faith that I then understand what you guys, who walk by sight, do not.

Hebrews 11:3a Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,

If that's true, then God created a 600 year old rock that has 4.57 billion years of radioactive decay, so we should be seeing a destroyed creation.

I highlighted in red the word I think may be confusing you.

 

[AV1611VET]

Of course you may claim that the Bible has the power to change the actions of some people, but so does money, jewelry and furs have the power to change the actions of some people. Would you argue that jewelry, furs, or money is alive?

There's a difference though.

We give life to money, jewelry and furs; but the Bible gives life to us.

If everyone had money, jewelry and furs, then its value would depreciate; but if everyone had a Bible, and used It, then life would appreciate.

 

[Tiberius]

No, time was not embedded -- age was.

Age, in this case, is a noun -- like 'rock' -- and like a rock, it was embedded into His creation.

Age is the passage of time, so it can be embedded.

Think of it like this. If it dates to 10,000 years, but was created 6000 years ago, then it has 4000 years of time (or age) embedded in it.

None at the moment.

We'll make a rationalist out of you yet!

It's when I walk by faith that I then understand what you guys, who walk by sight, do not.

Hebrews 11:3a Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,

We don't walk by faith. We walk with reality.

I highlighted in red the word I think may be confusing you.

How about you clarify it as well then?

There's a difference though.

We give life to money, jewelry and furs; but the Bible gives life to us.

If everyone had money, jewelry and furs, then its value would depreciate; but if everyone had a Bible, and used It, then life would appreciate.

I think it's very sad that you think your life is worthless without an old book.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

closing the thread for review
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