My problem with believing

[xNIHILISTx]

So many ask me to just accept Jesus as my lord and savior and I will find all the proof I'm looking for.

Well, I can't just choose to believe in Jesus or a god. Even if Pascal's Wager is a logical wager, I still can't sincerely believe that a god is real. It's like me asking you to just accept that the Flying Spaghetti Monster boiled for your sins; I hold the two ideas with the same amount of veracity. I'm sure that you can't just choose to disbelieve, so why would one expect the opposite from me?

Disbelief is not a choice, reading the Bible has affirmed my disbelief, and no amount of scripture can change that.

 

[zaksmummy]

Well you seem to have made up your mind!

 

[ephraimanesti]

So many ask me to just accept Jesus as my lord and savior and I will find all the proof I'm looking for.

Well, I can't just choose to believe in Jesus or a god. Even if Pascal's Wager is a logical wager, I still can't sincerely believe that a god is real. It's like me asking you to just accept that the Flying Spaghetti Monster boiled for your sins; I hold the two ideas with the same amount of veracity. I'm sure that you can't just choose to disbelieve, so why would one expect the opposite from me?

Disbelief is not a choice, reading the Bible has affirmed my disbelief, and no amount of scripture can change that.

MY FRIEND,

That indeed is a poseur! Given the figures--believers vs atheists--it would appear that the vast majority of those choosing to honestly investigate the Bible and its claims opt to believe the Truth when they read it. Perhaps you have some sort of problem or hangup--such as the disease of nihilism--which is keeping you trapped in darkness.

Try repeating "LIFE DOES HAVE MEANING AND PURPOSE" 500 times upon awakening and 500 times just before sleeping. Do this for one month and then try reading the New Testament through again, this time with an open mind and heart. Let me know what happens.

ABBA'S SLAVE,
ephraim

 

[Guy Rex Rodgers]

Dear xNIHILISTx

The worst Christians are those who have been persuaded by Pascal's wager. The second worst are Christians who make absurd promises about how all doubts - and all sin - will vanish that moment you give your heart to Jesus.

Any mind that thinks will have questions and unresolved questions lead to doubts.

This is not to say there are no answers. If and when you find better answers, you will have fewer doubts.

Keep an open mind and be kind to those you meet on your journey.

GRR

 

[xNIHILISTx]

MY FRIEND,

That indeed is a poseur! Given the figures--believers vs atheists--it would appear that the vast majority of those choosing to honestly investigate the Bible and its claims opt to believe the Truth when they read it.

How do you know which ones are honestly investigating the Bible and which ones read with a predisposition? Those who have had religion forced on them since a very young age are much more likely to believe that the Bible is truth than a person from a neutral standpoint.

Perhaps you have some sort of problem or hangup--such as the disease of nihilism--which is keeping you trapped in darkness.

Please do not try to make me look weak by calling nihilism a disease. It is not a disease.

Try repeating "LIFE DOES HAVE MEANING AND PURPOSE" 500 times upon awakening and 500 times just before sleeping. Do this for one month and then try reading the New Testament through again, this time with an open mind and heart. Let me know what happens.

That is a brainwashing technique!! It eliminates critical thinking and reasoning and replaces it with mindless mantra chanting. Terrorist training camps use this technique to brainwash children into hating western culture. I'm not equating your suggested mantra with a terrorist mantra, I'm just showing how it is an irrational and dangerous form of thinking.

 

[xNIHILISTx]

Dear xNIHILISTx

The worst Christians are those who have been persuaded by Pascal's wager. The second worst are Christians who make absurd promises about how all doubts - and all sin - will vanish that moment you give your heart to Jesus.

Any mind that thinks will have questions and unresolved questions lead to doubts.

This is not to say there are no answers. If and when you find better answers, you will have fewer doubts.

Keep an open mind and be kind to those you meet on your journey.

GRR

Thank you very much for your respectful advice, probably the best I've heard on this site. I appreciate the honesty.

 

[tangled]

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44

 

[ephraimanesti]

How do you know which ones are honestly investigating the Bible and which ones read with a predisposition? Those who have had religion forced on them since a very young age are much more likely to believe that the Bible is truth than a person from a neutral standpoint.

Please do not try to make me look weak by calling nihilism a disease. It is not a disease.


That is a brainwashing technique!! It eliminates critical thinking and reasoning and replaces it with mindless mantra chanting. Terrorist training camps use this technique to brainwash children into hating western culture. I'm not equating your suggested mantra with a terrorist mantra, I'm just showing how it is an irrational and dangerous form of thinking.

MY FRIEND,

So how do you think you became a "nihilist"--"nothing matters and so what if it did"--in the first place, standing in the midst of a universe presenting overwhelming evidence to the contrary. As Seraphim Rose points out in his book Nihilism, "Man's mind is supple, and it can be made to believe anything to which his will inclines. However, truth is only attained by bowing down and accepting what is received from above. If there is no Revealed Truth, there is no truth at all. He who will not live by the Christian Revelation must live by a false revelation; and all false revelations lead to the Abyss."

i would indeed consider an inability or unwillingness to connect with, and accurately interpret, reality an extremely handicapping disease. (In addition, of course, it is contagious as are most other diseases, and so doubly dangerous--both to the individual sufferer, and to society as a whole. The "flying spaghetti monster" ain't no joke!")

ABBA'S SLAVE,
ephraim

 

[forGod1]

How do you know which ones are honestly investigating the Bible and which ones read with a predisposition? Those who have had religion forced on them since a very young age are much more likely to believe that the Bible is truth than a person from a neutral standpoint.

Please do not try to make me look weak by calling nihilism a disease. It is not a disease.


That is a brainwashing technique!! It eliminates critical thinking and reasoning and replaces it with mindless mantra chanting. Terrorist training camps use this technique to brainwash children into hating western culture. I'm not equating your suggested mantra with a terrorist mantra, I'm just showing how it is an irrational and dangerous form of thinking.

Do you understand that people believe in Jesus Christ because of what they've seen in their lives? You've never tried, in a church setting, to accept Christ.. so you don't know anything. You're saying you're "neutral".. but the fact is, you're just wasting your own time and setting yourself up to fall. Go to church, tell the pastor about you needing to be saved, and just follow his instructions. You'll know God is real.. you'll know. Simple as that..

 

[xNIHILISTx]

MY FRIEND,

So how do you think you became a "nihilist"--"nothing matters and so what if it did"--in the first place, standing in the midst of a universe presenting overwhelming evidence to the contrary. As Seraphim Rose points out in his book Nihilism, "Man's mind is supple, and it can be made to believe anything to which his will inclines. However, truth is only attained by bowing down and accepting what is received from above. If there is no Revealed Truth, there is no truth at all. He who will not live by the Christian Revelation must live by a false revelation; and all false revelations lead to the Abyss."

i would indeed consider an inability or unwillingness to connect with, and accurately interpret, reality an extremely handicapping disease. (In addition, of course, it is contagious as are most other diseases, and so doubly dangerous--both to the individual sufferer, and to society as a whole. The "flying spaghetti monster" ain't no joke!")

ABBA'S SLAVE,
ephraim

I will just tell you what nihilism means to me. It means I don't believe in:

• God(s)
• Teleology
• Inherent morality
• Intrinsic value

I still believe that a person can find purpose or give themselves purpose. I believe that morals exist and are usually a beneficial thing, but they are relative, not absolute. And finally, I believe that people have instrumental value, whether that is helping the community, being a good mother or father, husband or wife....

 

[xNIHILISTx]

You've never tried, in a church setting, to accept Christ.. so you don't know anything.

Wrong.

 

[oi_antz]

I just want to jog a thought for you, have you ever noticed that you can observe someone without looking directly at them? That you can notice them and what they are doing even if you aren't directly engaged with them? Ever been engaged in some sort of indirect communication with someone in this manner? I assume you have. A blind man knows this world to be three dimensional even though he can't see it with his eyes, and we can accept the world for what it is, and adapt to it without knowing the laws of physics. This proves that the universe of time and space is a constant and our perceptions are variables, despite that some of us might be more or less enlightened about the purpose of such a reality.

So how do you place God into this picture? How would you expect God to appear to us, an observer and participant in this three dimensional world? I'm asking you to describe to me whether you think God is small enough to be comprehended by a physical mind. Assuming you answer "no, He must be at least as big as the universe" then how do you expect He would get a message through to us humans who are stuck living inside of time and space?

I don't want to preach my own idea, I'm more interested to hear what you think

 

[Paul.]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the just do it crowd. Christianity is about a personal relationship with God. We believe in a personal God not one that is far off in the distance. If God is real then He can provide you with the proof that you need. If you are sincere in finding out if Jesus Christ is everything we claim He is, then ask Him to make Himself real to you. If you seek Him, He will meet you where you are at. This is something you can do in private between you and Him. No one else needs to know that you have talked to God. What do have to loose? You can talk to God in you own mind, it doesn't even have to be out load because He can hear your innermost thoughts. If He is not real and we are all delusional then you will only have talked to yourself. You can say something like

Hey God. I'm not sure if you are real or just made up. If You are real I want know that You are, so would you please help me to find the proof that I am looking for and the truth about Jesus Christ.

God looks at the heart of the person and He knows what you need in order for you to come to know Him. In times of trouble you can ask Him for help too even if you are not at the point where you believe He exists. There are times when we need all the help that we can get and since you have nothing to loose except half a minute of your life, it never hurts to ask God.

 

[bling]

Timing can be everything.

I have worked with many agnostics and atheists that really do not need or desire to know the Christian God. They are happy and content with where they are and do not want to be told differently. I am just here to help and will be here to help and show them over the years I do help others and hopefully them. At some point God does give them kind of a “wake up call” and they feel they cannot handle the situation on their own. The mistakes of your past that have hurt others are a real burden to carry and there is no relieve with this world. If you reach that point let me know because there is a solution.

 

[Soothfish]

I will just tell you what nihilism means to me. It means I don't believe in:

• God(s)
• Teleology
• Inherent morality
• Intrinsic value

I still believe that a person can find purpose or give themselves purpose. I believe that morals exist and are usually a beneficial thing, but they are relative, not absolute. And finally, I believe that people have instrumental value, whether that is helping the community, being a good mother or father, husband or wife....

So you believe in pure utilitarian ethics?

There is nothing wrong with utilitarianism other than the fact that no single human being or any number of them could ever hope to properly calculate a perfect protocol. Even if they somehow did manage to do this, it would likely look quite a bit like that rudimentary protocol written in a 3000 year old book.

The post-modern belief in moral relativity has destroyed hundreds of millions of lives and continues to bring misery into the 21st century.

 

[GA777]

So many ask me to just accept Jesus as my lord and savior and I will find all the proof I'm looking for.

Nope, it needs much more than that except if you take this sentence to the extreme, and consider him your only saviour and not money or wealth or family etc. even if it happens for a moment.

Disbelief is not a choice, reading the Bible has affirmed my disbelief, and no amount of scripture can change that.

The same bible you're talking about predicted the future. You dont simply have to read the bible, but you should understand it.

 

[GodsServant05]

Heb 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

Jeremiah 29:13 "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."

These are promises from God. Seek and ye shall find. I'll be praying for you!

 

[Jarnold4108]

One of the most important things, IMO, in your search for God is to not have a pre-disposed idea as to how he will show himself to you. He's not going to come in the form of a burning bush, he's not going to send an angel down and say, "Hey yo, I'm real!".

You have to truly try and believe and open your heart and you'll begin to notice things. Keep it up and you'll notice more and more things. There's no coincidence, IMO, that most of the people that are active Christians(and not just say they are) always seem so gosh darn happy all the time and no, it's not "brainwashing".

 

[slockmn]

My agument to non believers is plain and simple:

Isn't it best to believe in something then nothing at all?

Isn't better to believe in something so there might be a chance that you won't end up in a endness viod of darkness?

 

[aiki]

So many ask me to just accept Jesus as my lord and savior and I will find all the proof I'm looking for.

Well, I can't just choose to believe in Jesus or a god. Even if Pascal's Wager is a logical wager, I still can't sincerely believe that a god is real. It's like me asking you to just accept that the Flying Spaghetti Monster boiled for your sins; I hold the two ideas with the same amount of veracity.

Why? There is evidence for God and for the person and deity of Jesus. What evidence do you have that there is a FSM?

I'm sure that you can't just choose to disbelieve, so why would one expect the opposite from me?

You can't choose to believe in the absence of a reason(s) to do so. Is this what you think Christians are asking you to do?

Disbelief is not a choice, reading the Bible has affirmed my disbelief, and no amount of scripture can change that.

You could say that your disbelief was not a choice if you had no choice to make about whether or not to believe. But the Bible you say you've read asserts very clearly that there is a God. You could have chosen to believe the Bible but, instead, you have chosen not to believe it. However quick and easy it was to dismiss the revelation of God in Scripture, you necessarily had to consider the truth of that revelation and decide to reject it.

Many other rational, educated, thoughtful people have had a different response to the revelation of God in the Bible than you did. Disbelief in God is not, therefore, a foregone conclusion that one has no choice but to adopt. Those who are Christians chose to believe in God and in Christ - just as you chose not to believe.

Selah.