My parents want me to get un-engaged.

There's an old saying, if you can't trust them to tell the truth you can't trust them.

He lied to your father about finances because he was scared what your father would say given the conditions your father put on the engagement to you.
Your boyfriend is selfish.

If you want to find out what kind of man he is put the engagement on hold.
Did he buy you a ring?
If so how did he accomplish that with the prior debt he's told you about?

Do yourself one of the biggest favors you can do now while you're still single. Do a background check on this guy. Full out background check.

He's not who you think he is.

That's what I think you're going to find out.
He wants what he wants and he'll say what he needs to to get it.

Trust me when I tell you, that will get worse once you're his. i.e. married.

So, the young man is sorry he lied, he even pleads guilty.
Then he should be forgiven.
Since you both live by your selves you can see how it goes as a couple, if your relation has potential for a good marriage.
Nobody can predict or assure the future.
You're both still young too.

Best not to get married until your financially able to. I actually agree with your parents - they sound wise.

They also said they weren't against reconsidering once he is a better financial position.

Given you "will never get married without my parents blessing," you will need to honour their wishes.

I think this will also give you more time to actually get to know him better. The fact that he lying from the outset doesn't sit well with me and I bet it doesn't for your parents either. Why has he being deceiving?

Wait a little longer. If he is spirit filled, his behaviour thus far seems wanting.

If God means for you to be together then you don't need to worry about losing him.

fm107 said:

Best not to get married until your financially able to. I actually agree with your parents - they sound wise.

They also said they weren't against reconsidering once he is a better financial position.

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I think it's sad that it should be about money...

Given you "will never get married without my parents blessing," you will need to honour their wishes.

I think this will also give you more time to actually get to know him better. The fact that he lying from the outset doesn't sit well with me and I bet it doesn't for your parents either. Why has he being deceiving?

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Because he wanted the blessing from her parents, which seems to be something very important here.

Hieronymus said:

I think it's sad that it should be about money...Because he wanted the blessing from her parents, which seems to be something very important here.

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Hieronymus,

We live in the real world where a man has to be able to provide for his family, if he isn't in a position to do so yet, he waits until he is. It's very simple but also very important.

He could have been upfront and honest about it. Don't justify his sin. If he is setting out to deceive on one thing what else is he willing to lie about? If I were this girl, I'd be trying not to be so emotionally involved and take a step back. This should be a bit of an eye-opener and she should be glad that this has happened before the marriage rather than after it. Her parents advice is spot on, plus this additional time is just what is needed to see if the rabbit hole goes deeper.

Your not looking at things practically and it seems your failing to recognise this big red flag which has sprung up.

Christiangirl1991 said:

So I have a very interesting situation and I really need some advice. After only 6 months of courting, my boyfriend sat down with my father to ask him for my hand in marriage. Now, my boyfriend is a great man. He is a hand-raising spirit-filled Christian who decided ever since the day he got saved (3 years ago), he wants to go into ministry and reach out to others and share how Christ changed his life forever. However currently, he is a salesmen and started a new job and is struggling to make ends meet and pay rent and pay off his debts from before he was saved. One of my fathers requirements for giving his blessing is that the man has to be able to support me financially and provide for me. This isn't unreasonable to me. My boyfriend explained that he was expecting to make a lot of money this next year in his new job, because at the time he was. He got my fathers blessing and we got engaged! However, sometime after the engagement, my parents learned that he was paying off debt and his job was not paying him due to complications in the companies payroll department. So my dad sat down with my finance to talk about finances. My fiancé was under a lot of pressure and made a huge mistake. He lied about his finances and broke my parents trust. My parents felt deceived. The guilt overwhelms him and he is willing to do whatever takes to earn back their trust. However, my parents are asking that we get unengaged, wait till he is financially stable, get his blessing again, and then get engaged again. However this is a huge deal. We don't believe we need their "permission" to be engaged. But we really want their blessing before we get married. We have not made any wedding plans, and we aren't going to until we make things right with them. No matter how long that takes. My fiancé is more than willing to ask for his blessing again. But do we really need to be unengaged? My parents just feel that being engaged implies we have their blessing which we don't anymore. Would I be completely unjustified in wanting to stay engaged and just wait however long it takes to win back their approval? My fiancé and I are in our mid and late twenties. We have our homes currently and live independently. But my parents are very conservative and traditional and believe we need their permission no matter what. I just don't know what to do. I will never get married without my parents blessing but I don't want to get unengaged. Any advice is appreciated!

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If it were me, and I loved the person (which is a commitment you have to make, not just the "tinglies" you get in their presence) I would have to have some solid Biblical evidence aside from broad-brushing the command to "Honour your father and mother" as to why I would have to reject my spouse in some way, even temporarily. What I mean by this is that I would need something that's not subject to varying conditions or context, which honour is. The honour you have to give to individuals in your life varies upon the conditions of their relationship with you, with, ironically, the only exception being your husband (unless you take the failing road of divorce). For example, I have to honour my employer and do my job exactly how he instructs, when he instructs and where. This duty to him ends at the end of each work day and permanently when my employment is terminated. Likewise, we must honour our mother and father, but this honour varies at different stages of our life. in childhood, we must obey their commands and comprehensively respect their will for us (unless it diverges with God's explicit will. As we mature and leave the care of our parents and become self-sustaining, we are no longer required to honour in terms of absolute obedience, but rather to extend a life-long love, affection, respect to their advice and gratefulness for supplying for us under their care.

When it comes to marriage, I certainly would not be letting my parents provide anything more than advice concerning my relationship, and you can be sure I would not heed a word of it unless they were admonishing me in a way that was morally obligatory for me to comply with. In such instances, however, I would truly be listening to God as He is the only source of moral values and duties.

Hieronymus said:

So, the young man is sorry he lied, he even pleads guilty.
Then he should be forgiven.
Since you both live by your selves you can see how it goes as a couple, if your relation has potential for a good marriage.
Nobody can predict or assure the future.
You're both still young too.

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Exactly. It is astounding how much pessimism there is in response to issues where someone mentions one sin, a single sin a person has committed that has no relation to the integrity of their commitment to God or their spouse. Obviously all sin is horrible and to be corrected, but as human beings who belong to Christ talking among each other about how one sin not related to infidelity or evidence of a lack of marital commitment ought to make someone question their spouse is nothing more than a joke. I'm fairly certain that we all came to Christ with the hope that He wasn't going to look at us, His bride, that way. Thank God He is not as unforgiving and quick to condemn as some of us. If we are going to be severe about a sin, it should be immediately related to the foundation of the context. If someone wants to find employment at a financial institution, it makes sense to be severe about theft and fraud, but not about if they are out of shape or don't make the healthiest choices. In the same way, if someone wants to get married, the only true fundamentals for a marriage are faithfulness and love, thus it would make sense to respond severely to someone who has evidence of infidelity or a lack of integrity in their marital commitment. No one could argue that finances aren't important, but recommending severe action against a man who is sincerely trying and occasionally fails is absurd.

If you love the man and he is godly and demonstrates the fruits of the Holy Spirit as evidence, then I would disregard your parents wishes and marry the man. Anyone will be able to tell you at any time that something isn't certain, but that will always be true in a literal sense. People, even Christian ones, get married to people all the time with their finances in order and their parents in concurrence, and it can still fail. Why? The reason is the same no matter the context: One or both did not love each other and retreated in selfishness. It's the cold hard truth but it's a fact. Selfishness is the exclusive force behind divorce (even when you divorce for adultery, which is morally acceptable, you still do so as a result of their oath-breaking selfishness), and if you love God and him, and he loves God and you, nothing will overcome you. Anything said to the contrary is nonsense. The man is trying according to your own proclamation, give him a break.

OP, he fudged a little to your parents, but has he been honest with YOU about his finances> If he is living in his own place, it means he makes enough to survive on his income. Why does he need to pay off his debts before you marry - why not create a prenuptial to cover who is responsible for what, including assets and debts you both bring to the marriage. Additionally, there are millions of couples who marry while they are still carrying debts from all kinds of things. If a couple struggles the first few years, is that an unresolvable problem - not that you will struggle, if you are both working and already both functioning independently. In fact, when you marry, there will only be one home to maintain rather than each of you having a home to maintain, so it should cost less.

Imo, your parents might have some unrealistic expectations on your fiance. He may have lied, maybe to cover shame over his situation, but it is not the unforgivable sin. Have either of your parents ever told a lie> And look at Rahab - she lied and God blessed her for it!

I do not think it is dishonoring to your parents to remain engaged, and to wait for marriage so that your fiance can regain their trust in him. You are still young so it's okay to wait a year or two before marriage. I don't think being engaged is a sign of their blessing; rather, it is more a statement of your intent to marry when you do have their blessing.

Have they given you a time frame for how long it will take to trust him again>

Ask God what He wants you to do. You have to follow His leading in your life.

I think the way yall are handling it is great. I wouldn't get unengaged if it were me... i also dont think i would have lied, but hey we all make mistakes, your fiance is genuinely upset of his mistake and like i said i think yall are handling it great. This is my personal opinion so it shouldnt hold much weight on your decision but ill mention it anyway... i dont think money should even be an issue! Yall dont have kids im assuming so im at a loss. Its not hard for two working adults to make enough to survive...sure yall might be very broke for a bit but thats just part of life...for majority of ppl on earth btw ha. I understand your parents wanting a man to be able to support you and yalls family, thats very understandable and a necessity as a man, but asking for that financial support from a man in his mid twenties as a prerequisite seems a bit much to me. Like others have said involve God in this situation just as anything else, pray for guidance. I hope it works out.

Don't think I would become unengaged but would check out his credit score. This would give you a clearer financial picture. Not saying that to be the sole determining factor but a piece of the puzzle. More importantly, definitely asks Yahweh for His guidance.

Christiangirl1991 said:

I am terrified that my dad is gonna be hurt and see it as a huge sign of disrespect though if I don't get unengaged and "hit the reset button". As he describes it. I don't want to ruin my relationship with my parents just to remain engaged.

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I would think it is better to say, given that he is a godly man who loves and is committed to you, that I don't want to ruin my engagement just to remain in good standing with my parents. I agree with all above who rightly asserted that you should go to God for His guidance. It is important to remember that when man was alone in the garden and God had said it was not good for the man to be alone (Genesis 2:18), the first human relationship ever established was the spousal relationship. All this talk about mothers and fathers, and what are they? Representatives of two people who left their own mother and father, the man uniting with his wife and the two becoming one flesh (Genesis 2:24). This is the foundation of the godly household and the only means by which it can be initiated through childbearing. The time comes in every persons life when they are to leave their household and become mothers and fathers themselves. Honour them as much as is necessary without losing respect as well for this God-given family propagating relationship. You are old enough to make this decision for yourself under the leadership of your heavenly Father (Note: I am NOT promoting disrespect of your human parents, merely temperate godly reasoning and behaviour), and if this man is a godly man as you say, trust in him and love him and by all means marry him.

You are in a tough place, no doubt. Sometimes it is better to forgo the fancy wedding & go with the heart. Really, you can talk an indy coffee shop into staying open late, get the pastor in there & a few close peeps . . . You can do a nice cozy wedding for . . . I think we spent under $500 including her dress (a nice Renaissance deal with corset & all, she'll be able to use year after year at the Renaissance Festival) possibly $600 including all food and drink (reception before was at a local pizza place) but certainly less than $750. What I am getting at, is, you could plan an ultra-lean wedding & a wealthy daddy funded wedding . . . lay both plans side by side & evaluate: Which has the things that are most important to you, what has to be done to make each happen, costs, benefits . . . you know, evaluate. Then talk about it with the parties involved separately. . . and make modifications & adjustments to both plans with each party (now you should have your original two, two developed with fiancee, two developed with parents) looking through these six plans toss out three of them (because you are the bride) and call a meeting of everybody to work out the best of the three

I cannot even. I'm sorry, but I would not capitulate to this petty power play your parents have going on. You're an adult. Your fiancé is an adult. Your parents aren't going to marry this guy, you are. Your parents should have absolutely no say so in if the two of you get married, when you do it, and whether or not conditions are placed on it. They don't have the authority to give permission to two adults, you don't need to indulge that control fantasy, and they certainly don't get to suddenly decide to recant permission they have previously given that you didn't need to let them give anyway. Plus, somehow the two of you are letting your parents insert themselves into your financial situation in the first place, when none of that is their business either! You need to nip that in the bud and tell your parents to mind their own. There is such a thing as being over the line- and your family is there.

Christiangirl1991 said:

I really appreciate all the advice. My fiancé is truly heartbroken and has nothing to hide. His parents treat me like I am already their daughter. I know his direct family and extended family, all his friends, and all his coworkers. We go to church together every Sunday and spend every evening together until about 10pm. And we pray together every night before he goes home. And do A bible study most nights too. His life has been an open book to me. He has told me surprising things about his past as an atheist that you'd never expect someone to be honest about. He literally has nothing to hide and never lied to me about his finances only my parents. I hate for his mistake to be a reflection of his character because it really isn't. My dad can be intimidating because he's a wealthy conservative traditional stereotype with very specific ideals of how things should be. He wanted to marry me so bad that he let bad judgement get in the way. He never even lied to get the blessing. He only lied after the blessing because new information came to light and my parents weren't gonna give us the money to plan the wedding. I am terrified that my dad is gonna be hurt and see it as a huge sign of disrespect though if I don't get unengaged and "hit the reset button". As he describes it. I don't want to ruin my relationship with my parents just to remain engaged.

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Your dad needs to back off. These people sound like a control freak nightmare- and you wouldn't be the one ruining the relationship with your parents if things go south if you decide to stay engaged to this guy and get married. They would have ruined it because they are being ridiculous and unreasonable. I know you love them- but seriously. That's some messed up emotional abuse type stuff.

ETA: You are not a toy/prize to be taken away at daddy's whim.

No offense, but who cares what your parents think. I get parents can be overprotective. And if they had legit concerns I would of course listen. But what happened is not the end of the world. He lied because he was embarrassed. Stay engaged. If your parents don't like it or feel hurt then thats their problem. Because if you let them control every aspect of marriage then you will never find someone good enough. Your both adults and its up to you two, not them. Being married means it may hurt a relationship elsewhere (family, friends and so on). Its the price that sometimes is paid.

As for debt, I say older people easily say don't marry until your able to be financially set. But todays generation is in a different world with a bad economy, low pay, high cost of living. I haven't met to many younger people who don't have some sort of debt somewhere. And really marriage is not about the money only. Alot of couples BOTH work because its the only way they can survive, more so if they want to have kids. Its a good old notion of the man providing for the woman and shes taken care of, but its not realistic in this world now. Not unless the mans making mega money.

And for those saying she should get rid of him because he lied (and do background checks). Really? No one is perfect. He lied once. We all sin. No matter how perfect we feel at times. If we were to be ignored after one sin then we wouldn't last long in this world. As for the blessing, well I stated before you don't need it to get married. Its again a nice notion. But you can't let stop you from marrying. Because really it would show you would put your parents opinions above your own future spouse. And obviously in marriage its God, spouse, child, other family, friends and so on.

While I did say money is not the most important factor, it is actually the main reason for divorce. You just have pray about this all really.

You say he didn't lie to you, that's good. He lied to your parents - who else did he lie to? Even if he doesn't lie to you, if he lies to others, that can follow him home to you. How long have you been together in total? What do your friends think of him?

Christiangirl1991 said:

So I have a very interesting situation and I really need some advice. After only 6 months of courting, my boyfriend sat down with my father to ask him for my hand in marriage. Now, my boyfriend is a great man. He is a hand-raising spirit-filled Christian who decided ever since the day he got saved (3 years ago), he wants to go into ministry and reach out to others and share how Christ changed his life forever. However currently, he is a salesmen and started a new job and is struggling to make ends meet and pay rent and pay off his debts from before he was saved. One of my fathers requirements for giving his blessing is that the man has to be able to support me financially and provide for me. This isn't unreasonable to me. My boyfriend explained that he was expecting to make a lot of money this next year in his new job, because at the time he was. He got my fathers blessing and we got engaged! However, sometime after the engagement, my parents learned that he was paying off debt and his job was not paying him due to complications in the companies payroll department. So my dad sat down with my finance to talk about finances. My fiancé was under a lot of pressure and made a huge mistake. He lied about his finances and broke my parents trust. My parents felt deceived. The guilt overwhelms him and he is willing to do whatever takes to earn back their trust. However, my parents are asking that we get unengaged, wait till he is financially stable, get his blessing again, and then get engaged again. However this is a huge deal. We don't believe we need their "permission" to be engaged. But we really want their blessing before we get married. We have not made any wedding plans, and we aren't going to until we make things right with them. No matter how long that takes. My fiancé is more than willing to ask for his blessing again. But do we really need to be unengaged? My parents just feel that being engaged implies we have their blessing which we don't anymore. Would I be completely unjustified in wanting to stay engaged and just wait however long it takes to win back their approval? My fiancé and I are in our mid and late twenties. We have our homes currently and live independently. But my parents are very conservative and traditional and believe we need their permission no matter what. I just don't know what to do. I will never get married without my parents blessing but I don't want to get unengaged. Any advice is appreciated!

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Read the story of Jacob and Rachel in the Old Testament. He worked 7 years for her...no wait, 14. If your fiance has what it takes to wait that long - ask him. (of course, it might not be that long, but it takes time to regain trust and prove that he is a man of his word) Ask him what he thinks of that story.

MoonofIsaiah said:

There's an old saying, if you can't trust them to tell the truth you can't trust them.

He lied to your father about finances because he was scared what your father would say given the conditions your father put on the engagement to you.
Your boyfriend is selfish.

If you want to find out what kind of man he is put the engagement on hold.
Did he buy you a ring?
If so how did he accomplish that with the prior debt he's told you about?
...

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This is absolutely ridiculous. Are you so righteous that you are incapable of making poor decisions? Because that's what I gather from your response. We are human and God *knows* that we will make mistakes. Please explain why you believe her boyfriend is selfish; he made a mistake that all of us are more than capable of making.