My opinion :S

[Black_Sheep]

OK sorry for the double post, i know my last question was a little.... hard to answer because no one knows "god's" intentions,.... here is just another re-cap :

does god ever ignore prayers?

Where in the bible does it talk about Self-hate, suicide, selfworth or... related themes... (nothing implied with this...

Now if this is true, than really is it worth all the sacrifices God and religion asks of you?



in the end how do i know that it is worth it? for the feeling of satisfaction in fullfilling the needs of my "god" is that it? for the hope that after i die i won't just rot in my grave, or in hell?


what exactly is so great about being a christian and knowing god? other than the obvious answers.... and how do you KNOW anything is really changing. ... how do you know that you're not just convincing yourself that because you've "met" and developed a relation ship with god everything is going the way he wants or knows it should be? What if the idea that god IS there is just a subconsious thing that people convince themselves in order to belive what they are doing is right?


I WANT TO KNOW HOW DO YOU KNOW IT'S HIM? AND NOT YOURSELF YET YOU CONVINCE YOURSELF THAT IT IS THE WORK OF GOD AND NOT JUST SOME GOOD DECISION YOU MAKE WITH THE IDEA OF GOD IN MIND?

 

[Tavita]

well for the past few days i have been really praying actively... which is so strange for me.... and im still not sure exactly what it is im praying for ... I spend alot of time just writting out prayers... that kind of just talk about whatever enters my head, my struggles my worries and fears.... everything....maybe i'm just being impatient but it's all so discouraging... i actually went to church today.... and i spent the whole time praying once again... is it possible to pray wrong?


I never thought about it that way... maybe i am waiting for him to come to me... when that's not how it works.... but... grrr... it's so confusing i pray and then i wait, grow impatient and pray some more.... does god ever ignore prayers? I know he doesn't always fullfill your requests in a way in which you always want it, mainly because he knows what is best for you (right?) but... why would he ignore me asking for guidance, for him to show himself to me?

This internal struggle is a sign that the Lord is taking you deeper. Believe it or not, He is actually speaking to you and working mightily in your heart. He is the one forming the questions you have, He's creating a hunger in you, because He wants you to seek Him and search for Him with ALL your heart. Sometimes He takes us to the point of absolute desperation to see how serious we are about Him. It also helps 'us' to know how much we really want Him. If He's worth having, then He's worth fighting for, so to speak. This is why you're asking if this relationship is worth it. And yes, it is worth it. It's not possible to pray wrong as long as you're praying what's in your heart. And no, God never ignores the prayers of those who are seeking after Him. He sometimes waits to see how serious you really are. But, never will He ignore you. Man... He loves you so much He died that horrible death for you so you could have a relationship with Him.
Keep digging and searching until you find Him...



(Jer 29:12) 'Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.

(Jer 29:13) 'You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

(Jer 29:14) 'I will be found by you,' declares the LORD,...'


(Luk 15:8) "Or what woman, if she has ten silver coins and loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it?

(Luk 15:9) "When she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin which I had lost!'

 

[WashedClean]

well for the past few days i have been really praying actively... which is so strange for me.... and im still not sure exactly what it is im praying for ... I spend alot of time just writting out prayers... that kind of just talk about whatever enters my head, my struggles my worries and fears.... everything....maybe i'm just being impatient but it's all so discouraging... i actually went to church today.... and i spent the whole time praying once again... is it possible to pray wrong?

It's good that you're praying, keep it up. Some would say there is no wrong way to pray. I disagree. If you (and by you, I mean anyone) pray expecting God to be like a genie and answer all your prayers the way you want, then that's not the right heart attitude. We must come humbly, through Jesus and our relationship with Him. How do you feel about your sin? Do you feel the need for a Savior? If not, then I think you need the Holy Spirit to convict you of your sin. Ask God to show you the gravity of your sin.

I never thought about it that way... maybe i am waiting for him to come to me... when that's not how it works.... but... grrr... it's so confusing i pray and then i wait, grow impatient and pray some more.... does god ever ignore prayers? I know he doesn't always fullfill your requests in a way in which you always want it, mainly because he knows what is best for you (right?) but... why would he ignore me asking for guidance, for him to show himself to me?

One way to see God is through nature. I'm not sure where you live, but anywhere is possible to see God's handiwork. Just look at the miracle of birth, or the complexity and vast array of animals on this planet. Sometimes I can just weep when I see God's creation, it's so beautiful.

You know what Black Sheep, sometimes I think God is ignoring my prayers. But that's Satan putting doubt in my mind. I know that God is working in my life. I choose to believe his promises. And he has a plan and purpose for each one of us, including you.

Blessings to you friend,

WashedClean

 

[Black_Sheep]

OK so god is working deep down within me to see how willing i am... but then why do i always feel liek im being pushed away... why do i feel soo ignored. and why... when i start to feel like im actually making progress does everything suddenly fall apart, i start to deal with depression once more... and everything i pray for gets ignored even more... I try so hard to the point that i finally feel like God was leading me somewhere and then i just get dumped... Is it possible that it isn't god leading me to do a task or to do his will, but infact me? Couldn't this be why all my ambitions and excitement to praise and please god get crushed when it all falls apart? Why does nothing ever seem to come from my prayers, deeds and actions? This again brings me back to my theory that God is a subconsious Lie we tell ourselves to grab hold of something, to convince ourselves that what we are doing is right... Coudl it be that nothing is happening because my prayers go unheard? they get ignored because no one is there to recieve them... Surely god, if he were there, would recognize my willingness and eagerness and want to work with it ..

Also if god does exisit and their and he created satan... doesn't that mean he created sin? Is it his intention to make me depressed... so that i will seek him for comfort? Isn't that more destructive than good.... is it fair to blame my constant depression and low self-worth on God? Would god ever ignore someone because they have some sort of Doubt? coudl this be why, if he does exist, he never seeks any major deeds or praise from me.... does he semi-ignore me because he feels i will again doubt him and it's not worth it? has this ever happened to anyone in his recordings?

Also what does it mean for him to "reveal himself to me" does it mean that he will prove his existance to me? or that I will suddenly feel a purpose or need for a life with him? If i do ask him to "reveal himself" couldn't again what i think is revealing is really me again convincing myself that "he" is revealing himself or is it actually there?

-Sorry once again, hope my thoughts make sense
.∙:*Black Sheep*:∙.

I do have to admit that i constantly feel that i am selfish to pray forgiveness of my sins.... but of course i know this is wrong...other times i just don't see the point, i don't feel like i've been forgiven so... yea... ​

 

[WashedClean]

OK so god is working deep down within me to see how willing i am... but then why do i always feel liek im being pushed away... why do i feel soo ignored. and why... when i start to feel like im actually making progress does everything suddenly fall apart, i start to deal with depression once more... and everything i pray for gets ignored even more... I try so hard to the point that i finally feel like God was leading me somewhere and then i just get dumped... Is it possible that it isn't god leading me to do a task or to do his will, but infact me? Couldn't this be why all my ambitions and excitement to praise and please god get crushed when it all falls apart? Why does nothing ever seem to come from my prayers, deeds and actions? This again brings me back to my theory that God is a subconsious Lie we tell ourselves to grab hold of something, to convince ourselves that what we are doing is right... Coudl it be that nothing is happening because my prayers go unheard? they get ignored because no one is there to recieve them... Surely god, if he were there, would recognize my willingness and eagerness and want to work with it ..

Also if god does exisit and their and he created satan... doesn't that mean he created sin? Is it his intention to make me depressed... so that i will seek him for comfort? Isn't that more destructive than good.... is it fair to blame my constant depression and low self-worth on God? Would god ever ignore someone because they have some sort of Doubt? coudl this be why, if he does exist, he never seeks any major deeds or praise from me.... does he semi-ignore me because he feels i will again doubt him and it's not worth it? has this ever happened to anyone in his recordings?

Also what does it mean for him to "reveal himself to me" does it mean that he will prove his existance to me? or that I will suddenly feel a purpose or need for a life with him? If i do ask him to "reveal himself" couldn't again what i think is revealing is really me again convincing myself that "he" is revealing himself or is it actually there?

-Sorry once again, hope my thoughts make sense
.∙:*Black Sheep*:∙.

I do have to admit that i constantly feel that i am selfish to pray forgiveness of my sins.... but of course i know this is wrong...other times i just don't see the point, i don't feel like i've been forgiven so... yea... ​

OK, lots of questions here. Not sure I can help, but here goes...

Just because you don't see God working in your life, doesn't mean He isn't. Faith is not a feeling, it's a decision. Someone once explained faith to me like this: If you jump out of an airplane with a parachute and believe the parachute exists, but don't pull the string and trust it to save your life, then what good is the parachute? Or you can tell me that you can walk on a tightrope 100 feet in the air and not fall and I might believe you. But faith is you doing it with me standing on your shoulders? Do you see what faith is? It's a decision. It's not a feeling. Our feelings change and can lead us astray.

You mentioned that in the past, when you have prayed to God for forgiveness, then all of a sudden, things start to fall apart. This is Satan attacking you. He wants to keep you away from God because he hates him and Christians. Have you ever read about Job in the OT? He lost everything, but his faith in God never waivered. In the end, God restored everything back to him, plus more.

As far as God creating sin, that's another lie from Satan. You can't have free will without sin. In fact, God created Satan and he was called Lucifer. He was in charge of worship in heaven and was God's most beautiful creation. But pride was his downfall. He wanted to exalt himself above God and be worshipped. He took a 1/3 of the angels with him and they all rebelled against God and were thrown out of heaven to earth. That's what demons are, fallen angels. They all know their destiny and want to destroy everything about God before the end of the world.

Hope this wasn't too much information!

 

[Rafael]

Also if god does exisit and their and he created satan... doesn't that mean he created sin? Is it his intention to make me depressed... so that i will seek him for comfort? Isn't that more destructive than good.... is it fair to blame my constant depression and low self-worth on God? Would god ever ignore someone because they have some sort of Doubt? coudl this be why, if he does exist, he never seeks any major deeds or praise from me.... does he semi-ignore me because he feels i will again doubt him and it's not worth it? has this ever happened to anyone in his recordings?

Sin is an action taken by that which is already created. God created evil, but only so that He could be known. If you were a artist and wanted to paint a masterpiece, could you paint it with only white? No you would have to get or create colors, dark and light for beauty, and the most important thing would be black - the abscence of light so that it could give the perfect contrast and outlining definition to the portrait.

Depression is very much a result of constant self-consciousness - a kind of being filled with only thoughts about self. We have to learn to think of the needs of others in life, and be a vessel that God can use to pour out His blessings out on others.

God doesn't ignore, but He does say "No" to anything that is selfish, to be consumed by our own lusts and strong desires. We have to learn how to pray according to God's will.

1 John 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.

Jas 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.

God has a will for us all to help the needy and to see to the needs of others. He has given us a commandment to love one another and have fellowship, telling us to encourage one another to good works. So don't say there is nothing to do, and that God has no will or calling for your life. He calls us to be humble servants of all men, and that to be chief among men is to be a servant. Jesus served us and washed thefeet of His disciples. We have the poor people in all our communities who need things just to have food and proper clothing. Or think of the handicapped people or nursing home people who are never visited or taken out for dinner and a movie. There is so much to do in bringing a little light and joy into joyless and barren lives. Bringing in people to Church is another thing that could be a calling and ministry to a person, but who will do it? So often we tell God what we are willing to do for Him instead of doing what He asks us to do.

MATT. 25:31-45 When the Son of Man comes in his glory....He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.....Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil & his angels. For I was hungry & YOU gave ME nothing to eat, I was thirsty & YOU gave ME nothing to drink, I was a stranger & YOU did not invite ME in, I needed clothes and YOU did not clothe ME, I was sick and in prison, and YOU did not look after ME.". "Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

LUKE 14:12-14 Then Jesus said to his host, "When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the POOR, the CRIPPLED. the LAME the BLIND, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

Luke 14:21 And coming up that servant reported these things to his lord. And the master of the house, being angry, said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city and bring in here the poor and the maimed, and the lame and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as you have commanded, and still there is room.
23 And the lord said to the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges and compel them to come in, so that my house may be filled.
24 For I say to you that none of these men who were invited shall taste of my supper.

Mt 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:

HEBREWS 10:24 And let us consider one another how to stimulate and provoke one another to love an, GOOD DEEDS and noble activities. 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

[Black_Sheep]

Wow, that's alot to take in... all very good persuasive points.... Although i am not fully convinced i do have a better understanding i would like to once again thank everyone who has posted here you are all filled with such great wisdom... right now i am not going to post any more questions a few have still been ignored so feel free to answer those... or add to thoughts that have already been said... i have more questions but i'll give you all a break, thanks again PM me or whatever if you wish to talk to me... i'm always willing to chat

.∙:*Black Sheep*:∙.

 

[Tavita]

OK, little Black_Sheep!

You're right...I see we still haven't answered some of your questions.

You said you didn't mind if we take a break... so that's what I'll do... so I can think about some of your questions a bit more. I hope you can appreciate, some of them aren't easy to answer.

Blessings

 

[Black_Sheep]

Thanks i aprreciate you taking the time to answer my questions

.∙:*Black Sheep*:∙.

 

[refitor]

Quote:

Where in the bible does it talk about Self-hate, suicide, selfworth or... related themes... (nothing implied with this...

I will need to "research" this -the Bible -other sources. I can't promise a speedy response on this one, it may take quite a while.

This question and some of your other statements about depression lead me to think that dealing (or at least starting) with these issues may be best, before possibily "spinning your wheels" on other issues/questions. I am not saying to ignore everything else. What I mean is that if one is in a depressed state, goes in and out of depression &/or other ways, etc., this may have a huge effect on the ability to reason, think (in general) &/or/consequently be open to God - in a sense. I am speaking from my family's experience as well as my own. Not much more than a year or two ago, I knew a great deal less about this and continued to suffer as a result. I still see my family suffer a great deal because of issues* with denial such as this. There is quite a continuum with many degrees of depression. Combined with other issues (or even by itself in some cases), life can be a living hell. What is depression really? I have not thought as deeply as I'd like about this. My first "experience" in thinking about this was when I took a neurobiology and a physiological psychology class as an undergraduate (university/college level). I learned/thought about the neurological mechanisms involved (genetic, environmental factors, neural transmitters, etc.) and the respective behavioral implications. Interestingly (and even sadly), this was a good deal of time before I came to realize these traits in my family or myself. Also, as a result of a few discussions that I've had with a Christian friend of mine - Is satan intimately involved with depression, even in cases where there are obvious genetic connections ("it runs in the family")? Another major line of thought involves the question - where would I be in life if I did not think like this for the first 3/4 of my life? Not that I wish that I could change what has happened. In part, I think that I can help others who may be experiencing similar things and perhaps that is one purpose for what I went/am going through. Anyways, If this post does not help, I am sorry for taking up so much space. Let me know if you'd like to discuss this topic. I really think it would help in that being depressed (to any degree) is like looking through a messed up pair of glasses - to put it simply. It is so much more difficult (how much more depends on the degree - mentioned above) to see reality (or at least close to what is really going on).

*I try to say/write the word "issues" or "differences" instead of saying "problems." I don't think the word "problem" is necessarily helpful or accurate. Please forgive me if I fall and say this word. The same goes for the word "disorder." That word most likely does more damage than good. Even the word depression has its problems because it is a label. But, since you are using the word, I will continue with this one for now.

 

[Tavita]

I don't know if I can answer your questions sufficiently Black_Sheep, but I will have a go...

In your first question you ask where the Bible talks about self-hate, suicide and selfworth or related themes. From the outset let me tell you that to answer this properly would take pages of work.

With suicide, it's considered as murder, the same as if you murdered another human being, because you yourself are one. Remember the commandment "Thou shall not murder"..

Self hate is hating a person for whom Christ died, yourself. It's the same thing as hating your brother. It all ties up with loving God. If you come to accept God's love and love God back, you will learn to see yourself as God sees you. And He loves you to the extent that His Son gave His life for you, so you wouldn't be bound up in self hate and low self worth. He came to give you life, and to set you free of those things.

(1Jo 3:15) Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

(1Jo 4:20) If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

(1Jo 4:21) And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.


And when you are filled with God's love, then you will learn to reach out and love others. The Bible is full of verses that tell you what God thinks about you. Believe what He says and not the voice that tells you you're no good and worthless. Get a marker and go through the NT and mark all the places where God shows you how much He loves you and what you're worth to Him. You'll be surprised.

When you come to believe Him and what He says and feels towards you, then you'll find your depression lessening. Of course, there may be other factors involved and you may need to see a doctor. I agree with raphe's statement, "Depression is very much a result of constant self-consciousness - a kind of being filled with only thoughts about self. We have to learn to think of the needs of others in life, and be a vessel that God can use to pour out His blessings out on others."

Then you wanted to know if all the sacrifice God asks of us is worth it. Well, personally I think it is. As I see it, He gave His all for me, and if I love Him, why shouldn't I give my all for Him? It all comes back to 'love'. If I love God, and He wants me to sacrifice something in my life for Him, it's always for my benefit or the benefit of others... there you go... back to loving again.

Another question: In the end how do I know it's worth it? For the feeling of satisfaction in fulfilling the needs of my 'God' is that it? For the hope that after I die I won't just rot in my grave or in hell?

Black_Sheep, is this how you see God, as some figure up there who only wants His desires and selfishness fulfilled? Who only cares about Himself? The picture you have of God is very flawed and not the same loving, merciful and giving God that I personally know and who shows Himself to be in the Bible. He's not about 'getting' from me. He loves me, so I return His love back to Him.

We all rot in our graves... but having a fear of going to hell is a valid fear.
In the end is it worth it? How can I answer that but by my own feelings, yes it is worth it.

What is so great about being a christian and knowing God?... knowing Jesus is the greatest thing about being a christian. Honestly, He's the best. He's just so wonderful it's hard to describe. And I couldn't feel this way unless I 'knew' Him, and knew the love He has for me. He's like my big brother. You're probably thinking at this point, that you've heard all this before and to you it's the obvious answer that I would give. Well, it is the answer. Unless you have a personal relationship with Him, nothing else makes any sense.

And how do I know if things are really changing? Because I can look back over my life and see how His love has changed me. Not just my character but my personality as well. He's unlocked the bound up person I used to be and let her loose. And He's built my character over the years and will continue to do so until I become more like Jesus.

And with the idea that God is just some subconscious thing that people convince themselves of that they're doing right just doesn't stand. How can so many millions of people all over the world have the same subconscious thing? How come they all know this same God? This same PERSON? How can all these christians have made up the same person in their minds just to make themselves feel right? They can't.

Those questions that are created in people "Who?", "Who created me?" "Who am I living for? and "Why am I here?" Are questions the Holy Spirit puts inside everyone who is called to be a christian. It's then your choice as to what you do with those questions, and what you do with the answers. That's God talking to your heart and drawing you to Him.

You said: I want to know how you know it's Him and not yourself?
I just know, because I know, because I know. It's how faith works, you just know.
Yet you convince yourself that it is the work of God and not just some good decision you make with the idea of God in mind?
Human beings can't make good decisions about God on their own. We love the darkness more than the light, and it takes the Spirit of God to give us the idea of God in the first place. Our hearts are so wicked that nothing good is within us.

(Jer 17:9) "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

(Joh 15:5) "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.


Bless you

 

[JJB]

although one day in my youth group i did accept jesus into my life i never really felt a change or did change.

Blacksheep, I can hear myself in that sentence! When I was a teen is when I asked Jesus into my life. I never felt a big change either. At that time, the popular book in Christian circles was The Sword and the Switchblade, where the author had a very dramatic conversion to Christianity. My conversion was not anything like that.

For years I struggled in my faith walk. I was close to Jesus at times and at times far from Him.

All this to say, after many years, as I look back on my life, my faith was worth sticking to. It is what stands out for me. God had to pull me through the dry uneveness of my faith. I could not maintain my own faith.

Here is a title of an old book that I am currently reading. The first chapter might help you out a lot -- see if they have it at your church library or public library. It's called, The Christian's Secret of a Happy Life by Hannah Whitall Smith. I bought it for $7.00 through a special order in a bible bookstore.

I pray that this my post gives you encouragement. Don't give up yet!