My New New Moon Challenge

[AV1611VET]

But, I thought the bible says that God is done creating?

He is done creating ex nihilo.

As I said, Genesis 2 locks in the Law of Conservation of Mass/Energy.

He has obviously created ex materia since then; as with the widow of Zarephath, or the feeding of the 5000.

Hey! I can use the same argument against your OP in the original thread!!

No, sir; you sure can't.

Here's your OP:

I create another moon -- ex nihilo -- orbiting the earth.

What evidence would you present that I did this and not God?

... and here's mine:

God creates another moon -- ex nihilo -- orbiting the earth.

What evidence would you present that He did this?

In yours, you present two entities, and challenge us to name one over the other.

In mine, the Creator is already identified.

 

[Split Rock]

He is done creating ex nihilo.

As I said, Genesis 2 locks in the Law of Conservation of Mass/Energy.

He has obviously created ex materia since then; as with the widow of Zarephath, or the feeding of the 5000.

No, sir; you sure can't.

Here's your OP:

... and here's mine:

In yours, you present two entities, and challenge us to name one over the other.

In mine, the Creator is already identified.

ahhh... gotcha.

 

[VehementiDominus]

I take only what God has given us in Writing, and use It like a two-edged sword against you guys.

A two-edged sword? More like a rubber chicken.

You guys, who think the Bible is just another piece of ineffectual literature, do an awful lot of bleeding; mainly in the form of laughter and ridicule.

That's because the Bible is both laughable and ridiculous.

You don't know it, but you guys do an excellent job of proving the veracity of Scripture.

By mocking it?

Because the Bible said people would mock it?

That's more to the fact that it's stupid and deserves mocking, not because it's true. The authors knew that people would see how stupid it is, just because it says "People will think this is stupid." doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Orogeny]

If you try to take any religious book as fact it will be looked on as stupid, religious books are guides and nothing more.

The flood in the Bible is a story but if you try to take it literally you end up with nothing but God performing magic or miracles and you in a world of fantasy.

Welcome back, consol!

 

[Nostromo]

He is done creating ex nihilo.

As I said, Genesis 2 locks in the Law of Conservation of Mass/Energy.

He has obviously created ex materia since then; as with the widow of Zarephath, or the feeding of the 5000.

You say "obviously", but what's the rationale behind that? I can't see that it's obvious one was definitely used in any situation, rather than the other.

 

[AV1611VET]

You say "obviously", but what's the rationale behind that?

Six times in Genesis 1, God pronounces His creation "good" -- at the end, He pronounces everything "very good":

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I guess you could call God's creation a gestalt -- meaning the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Thus, God is not going to destroy what He created -- even if it is tainted by sin.

Even in the end of time, God is going to rearrange all of His creation into a New Heavens and a New Earth.

Since God's creation is perfect -- meaning: complete -- there is nothing more to add to it.

Thus no more creatio ex nihilo.

 

[Nostromo]

Six times in Genesis 1, God pronounces His creation "good" -- at the end, He pronounces everything "very good":
...
Since God's creation is perfect -- meaning: complete -- there is nothing more to add to it.

Thus no more creatio ex nihilo.

I think I missed the bit where you made the logical steps from "very good" to "perfect" to "complete".

Am I to understand that "perfect" simply means the total amount of mass/energy in the universe is the specific figure it is now?

 

[AV1611VET]

I think I missed the bit where you made the logical steps from "very good" to "perfect" to "complete".

Six times God pronounces what He did "good":

1. Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
2. Genesis 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
3. Genesis 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
4. Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
5. Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
6. Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

He then pronounces it all:

Genesis 1:31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Good + good + good + good + good + good = very good = gestalt.

Am I to understand that "perfect" simply means the total amount of mass/energy in the universe is the specific figure it is now?

Yes.

The "day before" Genesis 1:1, the amount of mass/energy in existence was zero.

Six days later, it was at its current amount.

 

[Thobewill]

Six times God pronounces what He did "good":

1. Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
2. Genesis 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
3. Genesis 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
4. Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
5. Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
6. Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

He then pronounces it all:

Genesis 1:31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Good + good + good + good + good + good = very good = gestalt.


Yes.

The "day before" Genesis 1:1, the amount of mass/energy in existence was zero.

Six days later, it was at its current amount.

Actually, the way I see good adding up (i'm not arguing with you , just presenting a better model, in accordance with your scripture) is more of a function with x and y intercepts at the origin, and an asymptote at y=1. The x axis is time, and the y axis is "goodness" with 1 being "complete, perfect."

Around x=6, or the end of day 6 of creation, "goodness" is already close enough to one(since the first six days were pretty hectic and eventful), that god decides to call it complete, saying it is "very good." Of course, it is not perfect, and that is where original sin comes in.

Random tidbit. Nor for or against anything.

 

[AV1611VET]

Actually, the way I see good adding up (i'm not arguing with you , just presenting a better model, in accordance with your scripture) is more of a function with x and y intercepts at the origin, and an asymptote at y=1. The x axis is time, and the y axis is "goodness" with 1 being "complete, perfect."

Around x=6, or the end of day 6 of creation, "goodness" is already close enough to one(since the first six days were pretty hectic and eventful), that god decides to call it complete, saying it is "very good." Of course, it is not perfect, and that is where original sin comes in.

Random tidbit. Nor for or against anything.

Now that's an algorithm!

 

[Thobewill]

I thought you'd like that.

 

[Delphiki]

Six times God pronounces what He did "good":

1. Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
2. Genesis 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
3. Genesis 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
4. Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
5. Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
6. Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

• ...Then he later realized he screwed up people and animals so he made a huge flood to fix it.
  
• ...Then he saw that people were still messed up so he did the whole Jesus thing.
  
• ...But the Jesus thing didn't work either so he outlined his next course of action in Revelation.

...to be continued.

 

[Nostromo]

Six times God pronounces what He did "good":
...
Good + good + good + good + good + good = very good = gestalt.
...
The "day before" Genesis 1:1, the amount of mass/energy in existence was zero.
...
Six days later, it was at its current amount.

I think I missed the bit where you made the logical steps from "very good" to "perfect" to "complete".

Still missing something.

 

[Split Rock]

Six times God pronounces what He did "good":

[He then pronounces it all:

Genesis 1:31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Good + good + good + good + good + good = very good = gestalt.

Is this like the "New Fundamentalist Math?" LOL

 

[AV1611VET]

Is this like the "New Fundamentalist Math?" LOL

You want 'fundamentalist math'?

1 + 1 + 1 = 1

2 + 5 = 5,000

1 vs 450 = 1

ΔH[sub]Bible[/sub]=0