My latest chart (number 3)

Douggg · Jul 9, 2020

keras said:
At least your third correction is right!

First; Not the Roman empire, Daniel 7:23 is clear; it will be a worldwide government.
Second; That Leader does not become the king of Israel. They, all the Christian peoples, will elect their own leader. Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21

Please correct your corrections.

Keras, the Antichrist being the King of Israel coming in his own name, certainly would throw you scenario off, would it not ?

keras · Jul 9, 2020

Douggg said:
Keras, the Antichrist being the King of Israel coming in his own name, certainly would throw you scenario off, would it not ?

I don't see any support for your theory of a king of Jewish Israel.
That whole idea is simply impossible, as the entire ME area is soon to be devastated.

There is only one King coming; Jesus, but much must happen before that great Day.

Your understanding of John 5:42-44, is wrong, you need to study it more carefully, using Interlinear Scripture or a better translation.
That scripture does not infer Israel will accept a false king. It is an indictment on those who believe false teachers and misdirecting leaders.

Douggg · Jul 9, 2020

keras said:
I don't see any support for your theory of a king of Jewish Israel.

When you read this passage in your bible translation what does it say....? copy and paste please.

Mark 15:
31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

keras · Jul 9, 2020

Douggg said:
When you read this passage in your bible translation what does it say....? copy and paste please.

Mark 15:
31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

My Revised English Bible says: ....The Messiah, the King of Israel....

I don't see any reason for you to point out that Jesus was and is the Spiritual King of the true Israelites. In the near future He will be the physical King of the world. Revelation 19:16
Jesus is not and will never be the King of the Jewish State of Israel, that nation is ruled by Satan. Matthew 23, Revelation 2:9

Douggg · Jul 9, 2020

keras said:
My Revised English Bible says: ....The Messiah, the King of Israel....

Please copy and paste, John 4:25 from your Revised English Bible.

Douggg · Jul 9, 2020

keras said:
I don't see any reason for you to point out that Jesus was and is the Spiritual King of the true Israelites. In the near future He will be the physical King of the world. Revelation 19:16

The Antichrist is not coming in his own name to become the King of the world, but the King of Israel.

Please copy and paste from your bible, John 12:13.

John 12:
12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

keras · Jul 10, 2020

Douggg said:
Please copy and paste, John 4:25 from your Revised English Bible.

Unfortunately the REB is not available free on line.
Despite the fact that the Wycliffe Bible translators use it as their basic English reference.

Douggg said:
The Antichrist is not coming in his own name to become the King of the world, but the King of Israel.

Your idea that John 12 proves your peculiar notion of another king of Israel, is not proved there or anywhere.
The proof is simply that the Israel currently in a small part of the holy Land now, will soon be gone. Jeremiah 12:14, + 20 other prophesies.

Douggg · Jul 10, 2020

keras said:
Unfortunately the REB is not available free on line.
Despite the fact that the Wycliffe Bible translators use it as their basic English reference.

Then type John 4:25 yourself, without the copy and paste.

You had informed...
My Revised English Bible says: ....The Messiah, the King of Israel....

I want to see what they write in John 4:25.

keras said:
Your idea that John 12 proves your peculiar notion of another king of Israel, is not proved there or anywhere.

If a person does not recognize the "the messiah", also called Christ in John 4:25, is the promised great King of Israel, chosen by God to be their King - then a person cannot understand the concept of the Anti messiah, i.e. the Anti-Christ.

And that the Anti-Christ will functionally be the King of Israel coming in his own name, makes your scenario - not possible, unless you claim that all Christians that will have moved into a decimated by solar event middle east, will embrace the Antichrist departing Jesus. Which also in itself would be totally unrealistic, although in the valid scenario many in Christianity will fall away, thinking the Antichrist is the real messiah, in 2Thessalonian2:3.

It will primarily be the Jews who will in error for a while believe the Antichrist person is the messiah, anointed the King of Israel.
_____________________________________________________

Keras, if it is any comfort, I have had to change my scenario over the years as well. All you have to do is go to any Judaism site and research what they are looking for in the way of the messiah, to validate that they will in error embrace the person as the messiah, anointed the King of Israel for awhile.

keras · Jul 10, 2020

Douggg said:
Keras, if it is any comfort, I have had to change my scenario over the years as well. All you have to do is go to any Judaism site and research what they are looking for in the way of the messiah, to validate that they will in error embrace the person as the messiah, anointed the King of Israel for awhile.

All I can say: It is time you changed your beliefs again.
There is no prophecy that says or infers, that there will be a false Messiah for the Jews.
The fate of the Jewish State of Israel, is well prophesied and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27
You say you are non-dipsy, but you still grip onto their beliefs, the 'rapture' being the worst, allied with the Jews on earth going thru the GT.
Neither idea will happen, the Prophetic Word paints a quite different picture of Gods plan for the end times.

Douggg · Jul 10, 2020

keras said:
There is no prophecy that says or infers, that there will be a false Messiah for the Jews.

You seem to believe the part about the false prophet of Revelation, but not the other part.

Matthew 24:
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

Do you think them in 1John2:18, had the concept of the Antichrist, which they had heard will come - as being some evil person making a 7 year covenant with Israel? Or, differently, someone coming in his own name, to be embraced by the Jews as the promised messiah King of Israel?

1John2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Douggg · Jul 10, 2020

keras said:
.

keras, could you type in the REB John 4:25 verse?

keras · Jul 10, 2020

Douggg said:
keras, could you type in the REB John 4:25 verse?

John 4:25 The woman answered: I know that Messiah [that is Christ] is coming. When He comes, He will make everything clear to us.
Revised English Bible, 1989 Oxford Press.

Douggg · Jul 23, 2020

updated my chart to show that Satan will incanate the abomination of desolation statue image when he is cast down to earth. And is also given the key to open the bottomless pit - at least parts of it, in Revelation 9.

And annotated Daniel 12:1, Michael standing up for Daniel's people the Jews, which in Revelation 12:7-9, their accuser is cast down to earth, on his way to his demise.

And made some visual indication of the lake of fire, regarding the beast and false prophets'cast into.

keras · Jul 23, 2020

Douggg said:
Do you think them in 1John2:18, had the concept of the Antichrist, which they had heard will come - as being some evil person making a 7 year covenant with Israel? Or, differently, someone coming in his own name, to be embraced by the Jews as the promised messiah King of Israel?

Where you totally fail in your understanding, is the fate of the current Jewish State of Israel and who the people are that will repopulate all of the holy Land:

Jewish Israel; Isaiah 22:1-14, Isaiah 29:1-4, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Romans 9:27, +

Christian people: Romans 9:24-26, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Zechariah 8:1-8, +

FredVB · Sep 15, 2020

Anyone, among those who say they are believers anyway, can make their chart, which would be distinct from others generally. There is so much to figure out from the Bible prophecy, while what is right ahead in the future is not known. So there would be a whole lot about the fulfillment that wouldn't be known now, in any case.

Many describing what they see for it neglect Mystery Babylon. They do not consider as the passages on Mystery Babylon show that with all large urban living there is use of more land and resources with which there is continued contribution to the destructive worsening of this world, while thinking they are in a place that is all alright, and some other place or places are subject to coming doom. Even believers there do not yet see that they should get out. They would only get out at the last opportunity.

keras · Sep 15, 2020

'Babylon', is a metaphor for the ungodly nations.

Isaiah 52:1-2 Awake, Awake Zion, put on your strength! Jerusalem, Holy city, put on your splendid garments, for the heathen and unclean will never again enter you. Arise, captive city- shake off the dust and loosen your bonds.

Isaiah 52:3-6 The Lord says: You were sold, but no price was paid and without payment, you will be redeemed. My people were captives in Assyria and Egypt, but now, what do I find? My people in exile and My name reviled constantly. But on the Day that I save My people, they will know My name and know that it is I, the Lord, who speaks. Here I am!

Isaiah 52:7-9 The bringer of good news announces deliverance, proclaiming to Zion: Your Lord has become King! You who keep watch, raise your voices and shout with joy, for you will see the Lord return to Zion. The Lord has comforted His people and redeemed Jerusalem.

Isaiah 52:10 The Lord has bared His holy arm and all the world will see the deliverance of His people.

Isaiah 52:11-12 Go out, leave Babylon behind, touch nothing unclean – keep pure, you that carry the holy vessels. But you will not flee in urgent haste or leave like fugitives, for the Lord will go before you and He will be your rearguard.

Isaiah 52:13 My servant will achieve success, He will be honored and exalted.

Isaiah 52:14 The time was when many despised you, My people, just as My servant [Jesus] is despised and rejected. So He will cover many nations and what they were not told, they will then understand.
Reference: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged

V 1-6 Jerusalem; cleansed and made holy by the terrible Day of the Lord’s wrath, the Sixth Seal devastation of the Middle East. His people, Christian Israelites, redeemed and protected. Isaiah 51:11 Note: captives in Assyria, refers to the ten Northern tribes, but we know from the N.T. that true believers from every nation and language are deemed to be Israelite’s. Romans 9:6-9 & 24-26

V 7-9 ‘You who keep watch, will see the Lord return to Zion’ This proves that His holy people are there, in the Land, before the Return of Jesus. Revelation 13:7

V 10 The Lord has bared His holy arm, Shown His strength, on His Day of wrath and vengeance. Isaiah 63:1-6, Jeremiah 12:14, Deut. 32:34-43

V 11-12 His people – leave your homes, the Lord will guide you. [in the same way as He did for ancient Israel] Do not bring anything that will defile you. You will travel to the Promised Land in style and march with joy and thanksgiving. Isaiah 30:29, Jeremiah 31:8-9, Isaiah 40:29-31

You that carry the Holy vessels…..You people who keep the faith, fulfill your destiny. The Temple will be rebuilt, the Ark and all the Temple treasures will be placed in it. Ezekiel 43:1-12, Zechariah 6:15, Isaiah 60:7

V 13-14 Those peoples who have not received the Gospel will be told the truth.

FredVB · Sep 17, 2020

keras said:
'Babylon', is a metaphor for the ungodly nations.

Isaiah 52:1-2 Awake, Awake Zion, put on your strength! Jerusalem, Holy city, put on your splendid garments, for the heathen and unclean will never again enter you. Arise, captive city- shake off the dust and loosen your bonds.

Isaiah 52:3-6 The Lord says: You were sold, but no price was paid and without payment, you will be redeemed. My people were captives in Assyria and Egypt, but now, what do I find? My people in exile and My name reviled constantly. But on the Day that I save My people, they will know My name and know that it is I, the Lord, who speaks. Here I am!

Isaiah 52:7-9 The bringer of good news announces deliverance, proclaiming to Zion: Your Lord has become King! You who keep watch, raise your voices and shout with joy, for you will see the Lord return to Zion. The Lord has comforted His people and redeemed Jerusalem.

Isaiah 52:10 The Lord has bared His holy arm and all the world will see the deliverance of His people.

Isaiah 52:11-12 Go out, leave Babylon behind, touch nothing unclean – keep pure, you that carry the holy vessels. But you will not flee in urgent haste or leave like fugitives, for the Lord will go before you and He will be your rearguard.

Isaiah 52:13 My servant will achieve success, He will be honored and exalted.

Isaiah 52:14 The time was when many despised you, My people, just as My servant [Jesus] is despised and rejected. So He will cover many nations and what they were not told, they will then understand.
Reference: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.

V 7-9 ‘You who keep watch, will see the Lord return to Zion’ This proves that His holy people are there, in the Land, before the Return of Jesus. Revelation 13:7

V 10 The Lord has bared His holy arm, Shown His strength, on His Day of wrath and vengeance. Isaiah 63:1-6, Jeremiah 12:14, Deut. 32:34-43

V 11-12 His people – leave your homes, the Lord will guide you. [in the same way as He did for ancient Israel] Do not bring anything that will defile you. You will travel to the Promised Land in style and march with joy and thanksgiving. Isaiah 30:29, Jeremiah 31:8-9, Isaiah 40:29-31

You that carry the Holy vessels…..You people who keep the faith, fulfill your destiny. The Temple will be rebuilt, the Ark and all the Temple treasures will be placed in it. Ezekiel 43:1-12, Zechariah 6:15, Isaiah 60:7

V 13-14 Those peoples who have not received the Gospel will be told the truth.

Of course. I have read the Bible, fully, plenty of times, and still will. I believe these passages, certainly. What part of urban civilization is not ungodly? There are no godly cities. All have the history of civilization with exploitation and building up in pride with use of others and overexploitation of resources characterized by the image portayed in Revelation 18 behind them. The people who yet would be godly need to come out, to be separate. They should be away and live differently now, but the call will yet become more noticeable as it is getting later.

Douggg · Oct 15, 2020

Douggg · Oct 29, 2020

Marilyn C · Oct 29, 2020

Much better Douggg.

My latest chart (number 3)

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Pre-tribulation.

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