My Jesus Challenge

andy b · Oct 28, 2018

dlamberth said:
But you're a Christian, I'd think it should be much easier to know how Jesus would act than either Moses or Daniel.

I'm joking

dlamberth · Oct 28, 2018

andy b said:
....all I ask is for you respect that it's Christan values that earn you your freedom to be pagan

That's all a Human value.

andy b · Oct 28, 2018

dlamberth said:
That's all a Human value.

Why is it so hard for people in the west to acknowledge that the values they love stem from its Christan heritage......not it's pagan or Islamic heritage not it's atheist heritage or new age Eckhart tolle heritage the life you have stems from a CHRISTIAN heritage .......

Zoness · Oct 28, 2018

andy b said:
I'm not sure how much freedom existed in secular societies ruled by Stalin polpot or chairman mow.....a secular society is the same in essence as a pack of wolves

Well all of western Europe and the United States are secular (among several other non-western countries) and we aren't throwing people in jail. Secularism is one part of the equation but Humanism and a respect for Democratic values is the other part. I've seen elsewhere you suggest that Christianity is the only reason these things continue to exist. Christianity may have played a role in their philosophical founding (against what many early modern Christians wanted) but these days we've stripped away a lot of the religious underpinnings. We decided that inalienable rights did matter, but we don't need to persecute gays or restrict liberty for women, for example. Once science started filling in the gaps for explaining the natural universe, some values expressed in the Bible simply did not make sense outside of the context of stories.

Now, in America at least, there are forces conspiring to reverse those things for religious reasons but largely our society is secular, democratic, humanistic and functioning.

Zoness · Oct 28, 2018

dlamberth said:
I don't worship Jesus as God. But in the same breath I think everyone of us is an activity of God and thus Divine.

Me too, to a degree. I don't know if this means that there are any external gods and goddesses. Reality might be all we have and that's divine enough.

dlamberth · Oct 28, 2018

andy b said:
Why is it so hard for people in the west to acknowledge that the values they love stem from its Christan heritage......not it's pagan or Islamic heritage not it's atheist heritage or new age Eckhart tolle heritage the life you have stems from a CHRISTIAN heritage .......

Because our freedom was born out of the European Enlightenment period with social justice battles continuing even up to today. As history shows, often it was Christian influences and direct actions that hindered freedoms around the world with some of humanities worst human horror upon human acts committed along the way.

awitch · Oct 28, 2018

andy b said:
Why is it so hard for people in the west to acknowledge that the values they love stem from its Christan heritage......not it's pagan or Islamic heritage not it's atheist heritage or new age Eckhart tolle heritage the life you have stems from a CHRISTIAN heritage .......

Because we know more history than you.

Jane_the_Bane · Oct 28, 2018

I wonder if andy b knows about the real, historical "war on Christmas", and who wanted the holiday abolished.

andy b · Oct 28, 2018

awitch said:
Because we know more history than you.

Touche

andy b · Oct 28, 2018

Jane_the_Bane said:
I wonder if andy b knows about the real, historical "war on Christmas", and who wanted the holiday abolished.

I should of left this thread long ago but I'm willing to be enlightened by you Jane please proceed

the iconoclast · Nov 12, 2018

ananda said:
Yes; suffering can potentially build character and give strength to an observantly wise individual. However, we understand that character and strength are not end-goals in and of themselves; we understand that the end-goal of such improvements is ultimately to overcome suffering.

Such also describes the Buddhist Eightfold Path; enduring its progressive practice builds character and strength for the end-goal of overcoming suffering.

Hey hey ananda.

So to escape the wheel one must stop suffering, suffering is action and action is in conflict with nirvana?

Cheers

the iconoclast · Nov 12, 2018

Hey @Jane_the_Bane

the iconoclast · Nov 12, 2018

Hey hey @Zoness my dear please excuse me however I will be delayed only ever so slightly more.

I love you and hope you are having a wonderful day or night

TheOldWays · Nov 12, 2018

Jane_the_Bane said:
I wonder if andy b knows about the real, historical "war on Christmas", and who wanted the holiday abolished.

I assume you mean the protestant push to ban Christmas back in the day?

I remember when I was a Christian I didn't like Christmas. I thought it was unbiblical.

TheOldWays · Nov 12, 2018

dlamberth said:
Because our freedom was born out of the European Enlightenment period with social justice battles continuing even up to today. As history shows, often it was Christian influences and direct actions that hindered freedoms around the world with some of humanities worst human horror upon human acts committed along the way.

Both sides are important. The conservatives keep us from becoming a dystopian uptopia while the progressives keep us from falling back into the dark ages. Hopefully they will eventually fall back into balance. Well they always seem to do, but usually it goes really badly for one side first.

TheOldWays · Nov 12, 2018

andy b said:
Why is it so hard for people in the west to acknowledge that the values they love stem from its Christan heritage......not it's pagan or Islamic heritage not it's atheist heritage or new age Eckhart tolle heritage the life you have stems from a CHRISTIAN heritage .......

I acknowledge it for sure, but that doesn't mean we need to be beholden to it. It was a vehicle that advanced our society forward in many ways, but that doesn't mean it needs to be held onto forever.

ananda · Nov 12, 2018

the iconoclast said:
Hey hey ananda.

So to escape the wheel one must stop suffering, suffering is action and action is in conflict with nirvana?

Cheers

The escape from discontentment and suffering ultimately involves wisdom which dispels ignorance. Creation/activity (kamma) is a symptom of discontentment, and nibbana - the absence of discontentment and suffering - logically involves no kammic activity or creation.

Jane_the_Bane · Nov 13, 2018

TheOldWays said:
I acknowledge it for sure, but that doesn't mean we need to be beholden to it. It was a vehicle that advanced our society forward in many ways, but that doesn't mean it needs to be held onto forever.

The very term "heritage" suggests this.
Sure, our current legal system is directly descended from Roman law and medieval court systems, but I hope no one intends to hold onto thumb screws and crucifixions because of that.
Yes, humanism started within Christianity. But it did not end there.

the iconoclast · Nov 13, 2018

Jane_the_Bane said:
Yes, humanism started within Christianity. But it did not end there

Hey hey jane

Where did it end?

Jane_the_Bane · Nov 13, 2018

the iconoclast said:
Hey hey jane

Where did it end?

In contemporary society, where humanitarian values are no longer exclusively tied to religion, but to predominantly secular ideals like human rights.

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