My impartial science challenge

[dgiharris]

The neurophysiology of mass murder. Which encompasses multiple discussions. How are the neural pathways that would normally inhibit committing mass acts of violence be overcome in some people? Is it an inborn variation in neural circuitry? If so, is it genetic, or related to some drug or toxic exposure during fetal development? Or does it develop after birth from learning, or as a result of drugs, toxins, or infectious agents? Or is it a combination of all of these? Can persons at risk of perpetrating mass violence be identified early and can these impulses be controlled?

I think it would be interested to come at this from the opposite point of view...

Why doesn't the average person commit an act of mass violence? When I get very angry, when I feel wronged, when I'm very depressed,outraged, and or feel i've been dealt a huge injustice why don't I grab an AR-15 and randomly shoot up a mall, concert, or political rally of the opposing party?

dialing down the above and looking for some equivalence... Why do I watch horror movies? Why do I watch movies depicting serial killers, thieves, hitmen, war???? Why (in some movies) do I actually root for the bad guys to win?

Putting the two together, how/why does my brain distinguish between fantasy and reality? Why do I even have some of the dark fantastical thoughts that I have? What happens to the line between fantasy and reality as a function of my extreme emotions? How "close" does the average person get to jumping the shark, grabbing an assault rifle, and blasting away at random peoples at some public space?

If the above are questions you find fascinating then you've got to check out Mindhunter on Netflix

 

[Tanj]

On the other hand whoever built the pyramids and the Temple of Solomon may have been far more technologically advanced than we tend to imagine.

They weren't. It's not just an issue of math, it's also an issue of engineering and architecture. Early buildings like the pyramids have aspect ratios (width to height) of ~ 1.5:1 which is, well, just a bunch of blocks on top of each other. As technology actually advanced (as opposed to the "gee wow, that's old and big, must be advanced), the aspect ratio improved through things such as arches, buttresses, new building materials. We can now build better than 20:1

 

[jayem]

I think it would be interested to come at this from the opposite point of view...

Why doesn't the average person commit an act of mass violence? When I get very angry, when I feel wronged, when I'm very depressed,outraged, and or feel i've been dealt a huge injustice why don't I grab an AR-15 and randomly shoot up a mall, concert, or political rally of the opposing party?

Yes, those are very germane points. My personal opinion is that such crimes result from faulty inhibitory mechanisms. All of us can have violent impulses. Like when a thoughtless, or distracted driver suddenly swerves into your lane at 70+ mph and cuts you off with only a few feet to spare. There's an initial shock. Your reflexively slam on your brakes, blow your horn, and let fly with a few choice 4 letter words. And--to be honest-- immediately after that most all of us would have an impulse to blow the jerk away with an M16, if we had one. But for most us, it's a fleeting impulse. Our inhibitory mechanisms soon kick in. We may still be mad as hell, but we don't respond violently. However, there are people in whom these inhibitions are attenuated. They're unable to control their retaliatory impulses. These are the folks who commit acts of road rage. I suspect this same lack of inhibition is the pathology behind planned acts of mass violence. These perpetrators are filled with rage for whatever reason, and lack the ability to control their instincts to strike back. And anyone will do as a target.

 

[dgiharris]

Yes, those are very germane points. My personal opinion is that such crimes result from faulty inhibitory mechanisms. All of us can have violent impulses. Like when a thoughtless, or distracted driver suddenly swerves into your lane at 70+ mph and cuts you off with only a few feet to spare. There's an initial shock. Your reflexively slam on your brakes, blow your horn, and let fly with a few choice 4 letter words. And--to be honest-- immediately after that most all of us would have an impulse to blow the jerk away with an M16, if we had one. But for most us, it's a fleeting impulse. Our inhibitory mechanisms soon kick in. We may still be mad as hell, but we don't respond violently. However, there are people in whom these inhibitions are attenuated. They're unable to control their retaliatory impulses. These are the folks who commit acts of road rage. I suspect this same lack of inhibition is the pathology behind planned acts of mass violence. These perpetrators are filled with rage for whatever reason, and lack the ability to control their instincts to strike back. And anyone will do as a target.

I wonder if there is a connection or pathway between our reptile brain, our emotion centers, and the area of the brain that controls cognition...

basically, I'm wondering if under severe emotional distress or cumulative emotional stress/distress if there is the possibility of our reptile brain taking control and actually being the master of our cognitive centers instead of the other way around...

Did you ever see the Pixar Movie "Inside Out". Very good movie... in it, different "aspects" of ourselves got to sit in the driver's seat of our mind and take control...

now, normally the higher brain functions are in that driver's seat and the lower brain functions (like hunger, sex drive, fear, anger, etc) are not. However, lets say you are in the wilderness camping and all of a sudden around 30 yards away you hear a bear roar... The "fear" aspect of you jumps in the driver's seat and for a few moments it has complete control as you high tail it to safety!!!! Once safe, the higher brain functions take control...

I wonder as you have alluded, if there is a physical and quantifiable difference in the nueral pathways of people who do these mass shootings?

I wonder if repeated stress, depression, and/or anger erode higher brain functions and cede more control to the reptile brain and/or lower brain functions. I wonder if repeated fantasies of exacting vengeance result in pathways the directly tie the "anger" centers of the brain to the cognition and control centers of the brain???

My understanding of imaging technology is that it is on the threshold of getting an order of magnitude or more better in the next few years. It would be interesting to see what psychologists and neuro scientists will be able to discover when that happens.

Would also be interesting if the perpetrators of mass shootings literally had their heads examined after they are caught. UNfortunately, it seems a lot of them blow their own brains out... but a few die to gunshots to the body... so the brains are intact... in any event, I wish we as a nation put serious thought and study into this as we've got to do "something" to aid in preventing these mass shootings.

I hate when politics gets in the way of science.

 

[dgiharris]

They weren't. It's not just an issue of math, it's also an issue of engineering and architecture. Early buildings like the pyramids have aspect ratios (width to height) of ~ 1.5:1 which is, well, just a bunch of blocks on top of each other. As technology actually advanced (as opposed to the "gee wow, that's old and big, must be advanced), the aspect ratio improved through things such as arches, buttresses, new building materials. We can now build better than 20:1

For the life of me, every single time I hear some lay person say, "Wow, the pyramids are so advanced that we couldn't even build them today with today's technology... aliens must have built them..." I just want to tear my hair out and scream.

If you have thousands of people and a few decades, yes, you can build the pyramids. It is merely big blocks stacked on top of other big blocks. You cut the blocks using metal or even other rocks, you load the rocks onto logs, you roll the rocks on the logs, you in effect create a train of logs and as the rock passes over the last log you pick it up and carry it to the front...

but oh no, this is apparently too complicated for mere mortals and what makes more sense is that aliens did it...

 

[Strathos]

For the life of me, every single time I hear some lay person say, "Wow, the pyramids are so advanced that we couldn't even build them today with today's technology... aliens must have built them..." I just want to tear my hair out and scream.

If you have thousands of people and a few decades, yes, you can build the pyramids. It is merely big blocks stacked on top of other big blocks. You cut the blocks using metal or even other rocks, you load the rocks onto logs, you roll the rocks on the logs, you in effect create a train of logs and as the rock passes over the last log you pick it up and carry it to the front...

but oh no, this is apparently too complicated for mere mortals and what makes more sense is that aliens did it...

It's a bit more complicated than that. They had to construct the internal chambers, add the coating and capstone, seal it all off to discourage grave robbers... it took a lot of engineering skill and coordination.

 

[dgiharris]

It's a bit more complicated than that. They had to construct the internal chambers, add the coating and capstone, seal it all off to discourage grave robbers... it took a lot of engineering skill and coordination.

Yes, it was more than moving big blocks around, there were other things as well...
And all those other things could be accomplished by a few clever people directing thousands of people over a few decades worth of time...

Humans are pretty clever and amazing creatures, it really is amazing seeing all the things they can do...

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Would also be interesting if the perpetrators of mass shootings literally had their heads examined after they are caught. UNfortunately, it seems a lot of them blow their own brains out... but a few die to gunshots to the body... so the brains are intact... in any event, I wish we as a nation put serious thought and study into this as we've got to do "something" to aid in preventing these mass shootings.

The Texas Tower Shooter (Charles Whitman) found the violent urges he had started feeling to be 'unusual and irrational', and he had severe headaches; he asked for an autopsy to be conducted after his death, to see if there was some physical cause.

The autopsy found a tumour in his brain which was never conclusively shown to be the cause, but it seems unlikely to be a coincidence. There was some suggestion that it might have pressed on his amygdala, which is involved with emotional responses, including fear and aggression.

 

[AV1611VET]

Come up with a science topic to discuss that no one will derail into an argument supporting their personal agenda/philosophy/hobby horse.

How did we get our moon?

 

[Strathos]

How did we get our moon?

I knew I shouldn't have linked an old thread of mine in a topic you were posting in. It's basically a red flag telling you to necro it.

 

[AV1611VET]

I knew I shouldn't have linked an old thread of mine in a topic you were posting in. It's basically a red flag telling you to necro it.