My heart is like a stone

[tturt]

Why don't you go with the seed that's there - in your words there in post #39 - God is good, worthy of our praise and He is the King of Kings. When you have thoughts otherwise, immediately go back to this truth you know. However you praise Him, ramp it up. Because as you said He is good, worthy, and the King of Kings!

 

[paul1149]

My motivations for seeking God are self-centered. I should follow Jesus because He is good, worthy of our praise and He is the King of Kings.

When Peter was sinking beneath the waves, he cried out for help. He didn't worry about motivation. And Jesus helped him. Start where you are. Holy Spirit is able to purify and perfect you over time. But you've got to give Him something to work with. Start serving him to the best of your ability right now. Be faithful even with "unrighteous riches", and true riches will be given to you. God is a cheerful giver.

 

[kvolm]

I am. He, like many others, has suggested that I do what I know to be good, and choose to follow Jesus even if I can’t feel it.

And that is good advice for for the spiritual component of your being but what about for the physiological and psychological components of your being?. Is your care professional helping you manage the mental illness medically and therapeutically?

 

[kvolm]

I am. He, like many others, has suggested that I do what I know to be good, and choose to follow Jesus even if I can’t feel it.

And that is very good advice for the spiritual component of your being. But what about the physiological and psychological components of your being? Is your care professional providing you with medical and therapeutic resources?

 

[TenthAveN]

And that is very good advice for the spiritual component of your being. But what about the physiological and psychological components of your being? Is your care professional providing you with medical and therapeutic resources?

He’s recommended something along the lines or Exposure Response Therapy. What I take that to mean is that when I’m doing something that I enjoy doing, like say eating a snack, and I have this guilty feeling or feeling of condemnation, to do it anyways, because we have freedom in Christ. I don’t think he was encouraging me to partake in sin because of freedom in Christ, because there’s obviously things that I shouldn’t do. But things like eating a snack or meal that I enjoy, or building a computer (which I did recently), wearing clothes made by a certain company, etc. I don’t know if this makes any sense.

 

[aiki]

Why, when I think about following Jesus, do I get this churning feeling in my chest that feels like my very heart is saying no? I hate it, and it scares me. I don’t want to be opposed to Jesus, and yet it feels like I don’t even care. I’ve asked God to help me to want to follow Jesus, and to want to do good instead of evil. I feel so evil inside.

It costs to follow Jesus. He comes to us as Saviour AND Lord. He calls the shots. He becomes the Center of our lives. Most folks don't like this prospect - especially in affluent societies where every fleshly need and want can be satisfied (just not the most important eternal, spiritual need). But God can only be what He is: God. And He will be God just as much in our lives as in the rest of the universe He created and sustains at every moment. That "churning" you feel is probably the result of sensing that you have to go "all-in" with God, that He's going to take all of you, not just bits and pieces.

Can you trust Him? Can you really give God everything, all of you, and it'll be good - better than not giving yourself over to Him?

Well, God doesn't knock at the door of your heart and say, "Hey! Open up or else!" No, He first showed you (and all of humanity) that He is a God of love and that He extends that love to you - a love that is mind-blowing in its scope, and power, and perfection. How? By humiliating Himself in setting aside His heavenly power and glory, taking on human form, then living as one of us, enduring the scorn, ridicule and hatred of those He made and loved, and then dying at their wicked hands to save them - and you - from the terrible, eternal penalty of their - and your - sin.

This is a God you can trust, that you can yield yourself to totally. He loves you more than anyone; you can rest easy in His love for you. And the love God has for you, the love He'll give to you, cannot be found anywhere, or in anything, else.

1 John 4:9-10
9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1 John 4:16-19
16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
19 We love, because He first loved us.

John 3:16-17
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

Do you know God loves you? Are you really, fully convinced He does? Until you are, making Him your Lord is going to seem a scary prospect.

Sin has the effect of causing us to cease caring about holiness, about God and His righteousness. And the longer one remains in sin, the more hardened into it they become, and the more dulled to God and to His commands they will be. Sin costs, too, you see. But it can be like farming: You plant the seeds of sin, they grow, and produce a harvest that has multiplied what you planted. A person always reaps more from sin than they planted, they always reap later than they planted, and they always pay dearly for what they've planted. The Bible says that, along with becoming hardened to God and holiness, sin also always brings death of some kind. Death of fellowship with God, first of all, but death, too, of joy, of peace, of purity, of relationships, of health, even, and then, eternal death in hell.

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

James 1:15
15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Galatians 6:7-8
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Wanting to follow Jesus has a lot to do with knowing who he actually is, and understanding how much he loves you. God won't make a puppet out of you; there can be no love when it is compelled, you see. You must, then, choose to love Him, to surrender yourself to Him and then, by faith, wait on Him to transform you.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

 

[TenthAveN]

It costs to follow Jesus. He comes to us as Saviour AND Lord. He calls the shots. He becomes the Center of our lives. Most folks don't like this prospect - especially in affluent societies where every fleshly need and want can be satisfied (just not the most important eternal, spiritual need). But God can only be what He is: God. And He will be God just as much in our lives as in the rest of the universe He created and sustains at every moment. That "churning" you feel is probably the result of sensing that you have to go "all-in" with God, that He's going to take all of you, not just bits and pieces.

Can you trust Him? Can you really give God everything, all of you, and it'll be good - better than not giving yourself over to Him?

Well, God doesn't knock at the door of your heart and say, "Hey! Open up or else!" No, He first showed you (and all of humanity) that He is a God of love and that He extends that love to you - a love that is mind-blowing in its scope, and power, and perfection. How? By humiliating Himself in setting aside His heavenly power and glory, taking on human form, then living as one of us, enduring the scorn, ridicule and hatred of those He made and loved, and then dying at their wicked hands to save them - and you - from the terrible, eternal penalty of their - and your - sin.

This is a God you can trust, that you can yield yourself to totally. He loves you more than anyone; you can rest easy in His love for you. And the love God has for you, the love He'll give to you, cannot be found anywhere, or in anything, else.

1 John 4:9-10
9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

1 John 4:16-19
16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
19 We love, because He first loved us.

John 3:16-17
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

Do you know God loves you? Are you really, fully convinced He does? Until you are, making Him your Lord is going to seem a scary prospect.

Sin has the effect of causing us to cease caring about holiness, about God and His righteousness. And the longer one remains in sin, the more hardened into it they become, and the more dulled to God and to His commands they will be. Sin costs, too, you see. But it can be like farming: You plant the seeds of sin, they grow, and produce a harvest that has multiplied what you planted. A person always reaps more from sin than they planted, they always reap later than they planted, and they always pay dearly for what they've planted. The Bible says that, along with becoming hardened to God and holiness, sin also always brings death of some kind. Death of fellowship with God, first of all, but death, too, of joy, of peace, of purity, of relationships, of health, even, and then, eternal death in hell.

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

James 1:15
15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Galatians 6:7-8
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Wanting to follow Jesus has a lot to do with knowing who he actually is, and understanding how much he loves you. God won't make a puppet out of you; there can be no love when it is compelled, you see. You must, then, choose to love Him, to surrender yourself to Him and then, by faith, wait on Him to transform you.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

I think you’re definitely correct in your assessment of that churning feeling Aiki. I don’t like that resistance. I do want to truly understand God’s love for me, but my disobedience to His will has always left me feeling abandoned and unworthy (which we naturally are) of His love. Because of my fear of persecution, there is naturally this feeling of uselessness. I want to overcome this fear, and be willing to do His will.

I am also fearful that He doesn’t hear my prayers, and that I’m just saying words every day and every night. “If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened.” Psalm 66:18 (NIV)

 

[Rodan6]

Your answer will begin with service to others. You are correct in recognizing the selfish motivation you feel. To obtain the feelings about Jesus you desire, it will be necessary to "serve" as you are able. Volunteer work would be especially helpful. Cultivate within yourself a desire to help people in small things and larger things as you have the time and means. Do this and you will feel the connection you desire. Don't expect instant results, but when you firmly employ this mindset you will become receptive to the fragment of our Father that dwells within you.

 

[SANTOSO]

I think you’re definitely correct in your assessment of that churning feeling Aiki. I don’t like that resistance. I do want to truly understand God’s love for me, but my disobedience to His will has always left me feeling abandoned and unworthy (which we naturally are) of His love. Because of my fear of persecution, there is naturally this feeling of uselessness. I want to overcome this fear, and be willing to do His will.

I am also fearful that He doesn’t hear my prayers, and that I’m just saying words every day and every night. “If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened.” Psalm 66:18 (NIV)

Dear brother,
It is true that we don’t deny that we had oppressive thoughts and feelings that hurt us. Were they not guilty, shame and condemnation? Brother, resist those oppressive thoughts, feelings in the mighty name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Were not Mary Magdalena depressed, oppressed or possessed ? Tell us.

Remember how gracious is our Lord !

this is what we have heard:
and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, -Luke 8:2

Mary Magdalena found herself unworthy before the Lord ; what she has done :

Then turning toward the woman He said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. -Luke 7:44

You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. -Luke 7:45

You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. -Luke 7:46

Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven'for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little." -Luke 7:47

Let me ask you brother, have you feel unworthy like Mary Magdalena?

Remember what praise that our Lord have said of her among many.

So have you loved Jesus like Mary Magdalena?

 

[TJB]

Why, when I think about following Jesus, do I get this churning feeling in my chest that feels like my very heart is saying no? I hate it, and it scares me. I don’t want to be opposed to Jesus, and yet it feels like I don’t even care. I’ve asked God to help me to want to follow Jesus, and to want to do good instead of evil. I feel so evil inside.

I think what you have described so eloquently could be called 'spiritual resistance'. I think God is closer to us than we dare to imagine, and that we are both attracted and repelled. A very interesting guy worth googling is Rudolph Otto and he spent his life exploring the idead of the 'numinous' saying our normal reaction is one of attractions (fascinans) and fear even repulsion (tremens) ..... so be gentle with yourself but also be reassured that this a normal experience early in a spiritual journey

 

[aiki]

I think you’re definitely correct in your assessment of that churning feeling Aiki. I don’t like that resistance. I do want to truly understand God’s love for me, but my disobedience to His will has always left me feeling abandoned and unworthy (which we naturally are) of His love. Because of my fear of persecution, there is naturally this feeling of uselessness. I want to overcome this fear, and be willing to do His will.

It's one of the biggest problems humans have that they focus on themselves rather than on Christ. We are made by God such that we are conformed in some measure to that upon which we focus our attention. In fact, the more we focus on a thing, the greater its power to influence us in some way. This is the fundamental principle that underpins advertising. Billions upon billions of dollars are spent by companies around the world every year on advertising in recognition of this conformity-to-focus principle. And, since God made us this way, He appeals to this principle, too, in our spiritual living:

2 Corinthians 3:17-18
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Hebrews 12:2-3
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

Philippians 4:8
8 Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.

No one has ever become more like Jesus by focusing upon themselves; no one has ever become more holy by focusing upon their sin; no one has ever found joy by focusing upon their pain and unhappiness. In light of this, the apostle Paul's strategy for living as a disciple of Christ was as follows:

Philippians 3:12-14
12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Forgetting the past and all its failures, and troubles, and fears, Paul set his eyes upon the prize of the "upward call of God in Christ Jesus." He knew that to reach the prize, he must fix his attention upon it. How about you? Upon what is your focus fixed? God's awesome love or your fears and guiltiness?

The Bible says that God loved the World when it was in darkness and rebellion toward Him. Each person who has been saved was, to one degree or another, as the apostle Paul described in Ephesians 2:1-3 and Titus 3:3. And yet, God still reached out in love and mercy to save them, bound in sin though they were. Your sin is no greater a barrier to God's love than you allow it to be.

One other thing: You don't overcome; God does. By His Spirit, He transforms you; you don't transform yourself for Him. If you don't get this right, you will find yourself mired in a tiring and ultimately futile cycle of self-effort, failure, confession, self-effort, failure, confession, on and on, never getting beyond the most infantile stage spiritually with God.

The key to walking well with God is to remain in submission to Him at every turn, yielding yourself as a "slave of righteousness" to Him in all things (Romans 6:13-22; Romans 8:14; Romans 12:1; James 4:6-10; 1 Peter 5:6). As you do, God responds by transforming you by His Spirit, altering your desires and conduct progressively and profoundly, moving you naturally and powerfully into the joy, peace and holiness of the crucified life of Christ. As I said before, God won't force His will and way upon you. He wants you to walk with Him in love, which means you must choose freely His will and way. And when you do - and ONLY when you do - does He move to fundamentally alter you, making you more and more like Jesus.

I am also fearful that He doesn’t hear my prayers, and that I’m just saying words every day and every night. “If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened.” Psalm 66:18 (NIV)

Fear and disobedience to God go hand-in-hand. They are the opposite of what God wants for us: love and obedience, which also go hand-in-hand. You will find your desire to disobey God, to indulge in sin, diminishes and dissolves, not under fear of His punishment, but under the far greater power of your love for Him and the joy you take in walking with Him. This is why the First and Great Commandment - the command from which we obey all other commands - is to love God with all we are (Matthew 22:36-38), not fear Him, or go to church, or clean up your act, or whatever.

 

[kvolm]

He’s recommended something along the lines or Exposure Response Therapy. What I take that to mean is that when I’m doing something that I enjoy doing, like say eating a snack, and I have this guilty feeling or feeling of condemnation, to do it anyways, because we have freedom in Christ. I don’t think he was encouraging me to partake in sin because of freedom in Christ, because there’s obviously things that I shouldn’t do. But things like eating a snack or meal that I enjoy, or building a computer (which I did recently), wearing clothes made by a certain company, etc. I don’t know if this makes any sense.

So if that is his professional recommendation, are you considering that it is a helpful solution provided by God?

 

[TenthAveN]

So if that is his professional recommendation, are you considering that it is a helpful solution provided by God?

He says to trust in Jesus rather than what I can do, but there’s still things I’m unsure about doing. I hope it’s a solution provided by God, otherwise I’ve just been sinning against my conscience this whole time.

 

[kvolm]

He’s recommended something along the lines or Exposure Response Therapy. What I take that to mean is that when I’m doing something that I enjoy doing, like say eating a snack, and I have this guilty feeling or feeling of condemnation, to do it anyways, because we have freedom in Christ. I don’t think he was encouraging me to partake in sin because of freedom in Christ, because there’s obviously things that I shouldn’t do. But things like eating a snack or meal that I enjoy, or building a computer (which I did recently), wearing clothes made by a certain company, etc. I don’t know if this makes any sense.

So if that is his professional recommendation for you, are you considering this as a helpful solution provided by God?

 

[Religiot]

Why, when I think about following Jesus, do I get this churning feeling in my chest that feels like my very heart is saying no? I hate it, and it scares me. I don’t want to be opposed to Jesus, and yet it feels like I don’t even care. I’ve asked God to help me to want to follow Jesus, and to want to do good instead of evil. I feel so evil inside.

The only remedy to the heart of stone is repentance: God will then give you a heart of flesh.

The only thing required to repent is desire; but to ask God for desire to repent, is equal to saying, 'I have no desire to repent'.

Desire can only come from understanding; thus, without the understanding of the truth in your heart, it will remain stone.

Understanding can only come from wisdom, but wisdom only comes from the fear of God; therefore, you must first fear God, and the rest will follow.

I hope you soon come to the realization that God is to be feared.

 

[TenthAveN]

The only remedy to the heart of stone is repentance: God will then give you a heart of flesh.

The only thing required to repent is desire; but to ask God for desire to repent, is equal to saying, 'I have no desire to repent'.

Desire can only come from understanding; thus, without the understanding of the truth in your heart, it will remain stone.

Understanding can only come from wisdom, but wisdom only comes from the fear of God; therefore, you must first fear God, and the rest will follow.

I hope you soon come to the realization that God is to be feared.

I do fear God, but not in the way Solomon talks about. It’s a fear of punishment, which is a result of the self-seeking nature. I’ve asked God for the proper fear of the Lord that leads to wisdom. I’ve asked for true godly sorrow and repentance for many months. I can’t help but feel that God was disciplining me, and I couldn’t handle it. I even fell into willful sin for a while, only broken up by fear that I would be left behind. I constantly wonder if I’ve fallen away from the faith, and that I can’t be brought back to repentance.

 

[TenthAveN]

Dear brother,
It is true that we don’t deny that we had oppressive thoughts and feelings that hurt us. Were they not guilty, shame and condemnation? Brother, resist those oppressive thoughts, feelings in the mighty name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Were not Mary Magdalena depressed, oppressed or possessed ? Tell us.

Remember how gracious is our Lord !

this is what we have heard:
and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, -Luke 8:2

Mary Magdalena found herself unworthy before the Lord ; what she has done :

Then turning toward the woman He said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. -Luke 7:44

You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. -Luke 7:45

You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. -Luke 7:46

Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven'for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little." -Luke 7:47

Let me ask you brother, have you feel unworthy like Mary Magdalena?

Remember what praise that our Lord have said of her among many.

So have you loved Jesus like Mary Magdalena?

Santoso, I honestly don’t know if I’ve ever loved Jesus at all. Probably a year ago or less I asked God to make me poor, because I am rich, compared to other people who have it so much worse than I do. So yes, I asked to be made poor, but I didn’t expect it in this form. I’m not blaming God for my condition, rather, I can blame myself. Legalism resulted in depression, among other mental illnesses. If only I had just trusted.

 

[Religiot]

I do fear God, but not in the way Solomon talks about. It’s a fear of punishment, which is a result of the self-seeking nature. I’ve asked God for the proper fear of the Lord that leads to wisdom. I’ve asked for true godly sorrow and repentance for many months. I can’t help but feel that God was disciplining me, and I couldn’t handle it. I even fell into willful sin for a while, only broken up by fear that I would be left behind. I constantly wonder if I’ve fallen away from the faith, and that I can’t be brought back to repentance.

God is to be feared generally: man made doctrines have tried to make it some kind of specified fear, but it is not: God is to be feared, period--like the dread Jacob experienced, and the horror that fell on Abram, etc.

If you don't fear God, then you cannot hate evil, thus you cannot love what is good; for to love the one does means to hate the other--hatred can only come from love. God is love, thus the hatred that comes from Him is perfect.

 

[TenthAveN]

God is to be feared generally: man made doctrines have tried to make it some kind of specified fear, but it is not: God is to be feared, period--like the dread Jacob experienced, and the horror that fell on Abram, etc.

If you don't fear God, then you cannot hate evil, thus you cannot love what is good; for to love the one does means to hate the other--hatred can only come from love. God is love, thus the hatred that comes from Him is perfect.

I’ve begun reading Proverbs along with my daily reading of the Old Testament, hoping to gain wisdom. So far, it’s shown me how foolish I am.

 

[Religiot]

I’ve begun reading Proverbs along with my daily reading of the Old Testament, hoping to gain wisdom. So far, it’s shown me how foolish I am.

...wisdom is not gained by reading proverbs, but by fearing God.

Without the fear of God, the very gospel itself is without meaning...

This fear of punishment, is not the fear of God.

I must ask you directly, did you ever fear God?