My great great granfather was not a monkey!!!!!

[Tomk80]

What? That people need to brush up on their taxonomy? Maybe it's silly to me because it's so simple...

Yup, and how we classify things, and how this classification points to evolution. It's simple once you get it, but a lot of people just don't get it.

 

[gluadys]

Since we don't share ALL the characteristics that are common to all primates, and we do have particular characteristics which we share only with other humans, and differentiate humans from other primates, and the primate order contains several subsets of primates, only one can be Human.

Which physical characteristic common to all other primates do we not share?

 

[gluadys]

God did not make us as apes or out of monkey ancestors, although neo-Darwinists sure are making a monkey out of you by simply classifying you as an ape on their little charts in the first place.

Apes and men have a common creator, not ancestor. Where did you go to Sunday school?

Humans and other apes have a common creator and a common ancestor. Just like you and your cousin.

 

[cwolf20]

great, now I'm picturing Darwin with a long black overcoat. Sunglasses. A gun in each hand. And he's frozen in midleap in the air with his foot extended, on its way toward the chin of a creationist. I really need to stop watching Matrix

They keep changing their theories and taxonomies. Neo-Darwinism is what happens as Darwinism keeps evolving.

 

[cwolf20]

except for a few extreme situations, then (if we are descended from apes. Which I do not agree with) apes have a heck of alot more hair.


(sarcastic joking)

common characteristics.

Humans grunt at each other alot in public.

Many humans scratch themselves in public... and depending on the situation, each other.

Which physical characteristic common to all other primates do we not share?

 

[Nice Dream]

Humans and other apes have a common creator and a common ancestor. Just like you and your cousin.

Why in genesis is there a distinction made in the days of creation between humans and animals?

Personally i see that evolution and the bible are incompatible, not that i see any Christian who believes in evolution to be any less Christian as it is not the central message of the bible.

 

[Aron-Ra]

Why in genesis is there a distinction made in the days of creation between humans and animals?

Why in Ecclesiastes, does it say that men are animals, and that to deny that is naught but vanity?

 

[Nice Dream]

Why in Ecclesiastes, does it say that men are animals, and that to deny that is naught but vanity?

Give me the actual scripture and we'll put it back in context.

 

[Nice Dream]

Are you reffering to this?


Ecclesiastes 3:19
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For that which happens to the sons of men happens to animals. Even one thing happens to them. As the one dies, so the other dies. Yes, they have all one breath; and man has no advantage over the animals: for all is vanity.

Just because humans and animals have the same destiny does by no means mean that they are animals.
[/font]

 

[Aron-Ra]

Give me the actual scripture and we'll put it back in context.

Sure, its my favorite line, from my favorite book, of the whole compilation.

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again."
--Ecclesiastes; 3:18-20

 

[Aron-Ra]

Are you reffering to this?


Ecclesiastes 3:19
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For that which happens to the sons of men happens to animals. Even one thing happens to them. As the one dies, so the other dies. Yes, they have all one breath; and man has no advantage over the animals: for all is vanity.

Just because humans and animals have the same destiny does by no means mean that they are animals.[/font]

You missed the line just ahead of your quote that says we are.

Of course what could the Bible authors have known about that? If you want a more precise way to know whether we're animals or not, you would have to see a modern biological definition:

animal (n-ml) n.
any organic (Carbon-based) replicative RNA/DNA protein organism:
(a) consisting of multiple diploid cells which each contain a nucleus;
(b) which perform chemical reactions and acheive homeostasis;
(c) who's gammete cells have a posterior flagella;
(d) which must ingest and digest other organisms in a digestive tract in order to sustain themselves.

 

[Nice Dream]

Sorry i just quickly googled it and it was the first quote it came up with.

The context of that is clearly in reference to man's sin as how could one who was made in the image of God be equal to animals and the author is talking about God's judgement and how he wishes men would see the truth about what their behaviour has made them, that they might repent and be saved or restored to their intial position as beings made in the image of God. I don't think it's to be taken literally as men are animals.

 

[Aron-Ra]

Sorry i just quickly googled it and it was the first quote it came up with.

The context of that is clearly in reference to man's sin as how could one who was made in the image of God be equal to animals and the author is talking about God's judgement and how he wishes men would see the truth about what their behaviour has made them, that they might repent and be saved or restored to their intial position as beings made in the image of God. I don't think it's to be taken literally as men are animals.

I don't know how it is possible to interpret that otherwise, since it states it so plainly. Its also unusually objective because 'Ecclesiastes' is asking a very legitmate question; 'who know if human souls go up to Heaven while beast's souls go down into the Earth?' More importantly, Ecclesiastes is also admitting that animals have souls.

And we are animals whether you think the Bible says so or not. Shouldn't the Bible match reality? Moreso, we're not just any "kind" of animal. We're a very special "kind" of monkey.

And all the monkeys aren't in the zoo;
Every day you meet quite a few.
So you see, it's all up to you
You can be better than you are.
You could be swingin' on a star.

 

[Nice Dream]

Haha if you want to be a 'special kind of monkey' that's fine, but i don't accept that i am.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground."

 

[Aron-Ra]

Haha if you want to be a 'special kind of monkey' that's fine, but i don't accept that i am.

Yeah, I hear that a lot. Its funny that creationists will admit to being primates, but in the same breath claim not to be monkeys. This would be so much easier if you understood what a primate was.

So then I ask the question no creationist yet has dared answer in any competant way; What is a monkey?

If we found some new species of what might be a monkey, how would we know if it really was a monkey, and not a civet or a squirrel, or what-have-you? You'd have to be able to define what a monkey is. It won't do to tell me what a monkey is not, and it won't be good enough to list features that are only seen on some monkeys and not others. That won't tell us if our new sample is really a monkey or not. So we'll need a definition that includes all the traits common to all monkeys collectively. And just to save you a month of homework, I'll tell you now that you can't list all those traits common to all monkeys without describing humans at the same time.

You are a monkey, whether you're able to accept that or not. Specifically, you're an Old World monkey, a member of the infraorder, Catarrhini. You are a monkey in precisely the same way that a lion is a cat.

 

[Loudmouth]

Haha if you want to be a 'special kind of monkey' that's fine, but i don't accept that i am.

So you think of yourself as a regular kind of monkey?

Genesis 1:26 Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the cattle, and over all the wild animals and all the creatures that crawl on the ground."

Nowhere does this require the physical makeup of humans to be like that of God. In fact, it would seem impossible since God is not made of flesh.

 

[Nice Dream]

So you think of yourself as a regular kind of monkey?



Nowhere does this require the physical makeup of humans to be like that of God. In fact, it would seem impossible since God is not made of flesh.

Jesus is God in the flesh.

That wasn't what i was trying to say though, i was making a point of the distinction God makes between animals and humans.

 

[john crawford]

Everything evolves.... everything.

Everything is created .... everything. Even theories of evolution are created.

 

[Nice Dream]

Yeah, I hear that a lot. Its funny that creationists will admit to being primates, but in the same breath claim not to be monkeys. This would be so much easier if you understood what a primate was.

So then I ask the question no creationist yet has dared answer in any competant way; What is a monkey?

If we found some new species of what might be a monkey, how would we know if it really was a monkey, and not a civet or a squirrel, or what-have-you? You'd have to be able to define what a monkey is. It won't do to tell me what a monkey is not, and it won't be good enough to list features that are only seen on some monkeys and not others. That won't tell us if our new sample is really a monkey or not. So we'll need a definition that includes all the traits common to all monkeys collectively. And just to save you a month of homework, I'll tell you now that you can't list all those traits common to all monkeys without describing humans at the same time.

You are a monkey, whether you're able to accept that or not. Specifically, you're an Old World monkey, a member of the infraorder, Catarrhini. You are a monkey in precisely the same way that a lion is a cat.

I don't call myself a primate either.

If you listed all the common traits of humans would they apply to monkeys too then?

 

[john crawford]

Evolution is not teleologically bound. Get used to it.

Everything is teleologically bound, otherwise there would be no purpose to it.