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My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by BeStill&Know, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. BeStill&Know

    BeStill&Know Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Been in the Word for decades and heard many sermons/ and a variety of explanations of Jesus statement but recently I heard that Yeshua was again quoting His Word from the Torah, Tanakh. And the nearby Centurion was aware of it. When he said, Surely this is the Son of God.
    Now I see it was a prophetic fulfillment not only by Jesus, but Jesus was the catalyst of His prophecy in verse 25-31

    Psalm 22
    22 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why do you refuse to help me or even to listen to my groans? 2 Day and night I keep on weeping, crying for your help, but there is no reply— 3-4 for you are holy.

    The praises of our fathers surrounded your throne; they trusted you and you delivered them. 5 You heard their cries for help and saved them; they were never disappointed when they sought your aid.

    6 But I am a worm, not a man, scorned and despised by my own people and by all mankind. 7 Everyone who sees me mocks and sneers and shrugs. 8 “Is this the one who rolled his burden on the Lord?” they laugh. “Is this the one who claims the Lord delights in him? We’ll believe it when we see God rescue him!”

    9-11 Lord, how you have helped me before! You took me safely from my mother’s womb and brought me through the years of infancy. I have depended upon you since birth; you have always been my God. Don’t leave me now, for trouble is near and no one else can possibly help.

    12 I am surrounded by fearsome enemies, strong as the giant bulls from Bashan. 13 They come at me with open jaws, like roaring lions attacking their prey. 14 My strength has drained away like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart melts like wax; 15 my strength has dried up like sun-baked clay; my tongue sticks to my mouth, for you have laid me in the dust of death. 16 The enemy, this gang of evil men, circles me like a pack of dogs; they have pierced my hands and feet. 17 I can count every bone in my body. See these men of evil gloat and stare; 18 they divide my clothes among themselves by a toss of the dice.

    19 O Lord, don’t stay away. O God my Strength, hurry to my aid. 20 Rescue me from death; spare my precious life from all these evil men. 21 Save me from these lions’ jaws and from the horns of these wild oxen. Yes, God will answer me and rescue me.

    22 I will praise you to all my brothers; I will stand up before the congregation and testify of the wonderful things you have done. 23 “Praise the Lord, each one of you who fears him,” I will say. “Each of you must fear and reverence his name. Let all Israel sing his praises, 24 for he has not despised my cries of deep despair; he has not turned and walked away. When I cried to him, he heard and came.”

    25 Yes, I will stand and praise you before all the people. I will publicly fulfill my vows in the presence of all who reverence your name.

    26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied; all who seek the Lord shall find him and shall praise his name. Their hearts shall rejoice with everlasting joy.27 The whole earth shall see it and return to the Lord; the people of every nation shall worship him.

    28 For the Lord is King and rules the nations. 29 Both proud and humble together, all who are mortal—born to die—shall worship him. 30 Our children too shall serve him, for they shall hear from us about the wonders of the Lord; 31 generations yet unborn shall hear of all the miracles he did for us.
     
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  2. grasping the after wind

    grasping the after wind That's grasping after the wind

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    I tend to agree.
     
  3. John Hyperspace

    John Hyperspace UnKnown ReMember

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  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    The Lord bless you. You are so right, this is the Son of God fulfilling "all that the prophets wrote concerning the Christ, how that He had to SUFFER" IN HIS TRIUMPH in the Kingdom of his Father, "destroying the last enemy, death".

    ● My God, my God, unto what

    http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/The Heart of the Gospel - Die Hart van die Evangelie - Laaste Pasga - Lyding van Jesus Christus.pdf
    Ὁ Θεός μου ὁ Θεός μου, εἰς τί ἐγκατέλιπές με;
    Addendum 3 Markus 15:34 Matthew 27:46 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani? that is, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Eks12:3:5 …labetohsan hekastos probaton kat’ oikous…teleion apo tohn arnohn lehpsesthe Mk7:3235 …ἐπιθῇ αὐτῷ τὴν χεῖρα. ἀπολαβόμενος αὐτὸν ἀπὸ τοῦ ὄχλου κατ’ ἰδίαν Matthew wrote, "that is ...". Matthew interpreted or translated the words, 'lema sabachthani', to "mean, why have you forsaken me?" So what did Matthew mean with the word, Greek, 'enkatélipes' 'enkataleípoh'? ‘en’ – in / with; ‘katá’ – in virtue of / in proportion to; ‘leípohleípos’ – remainder / henceforth / finally; ‘katáloipos’ – legacy / remnant / remaining (chadal Gn42:33 yathar Is1:9 Ez12:16) “The rest of the blood he shall pour out at the bottom of the
    201
    altar a sin offering” Lv5:9/10. I believe the translation with ‘forsake’ was unfortunate. The word is normally rendered, to ‘leave’. Jesus was given command was given 'leave' to do the will of God, and to empty the cup of his suffering. He actually prayed the Father, “not my will (which was “to do Thy will, o God”) but Your will be done” in the end or climax. And Jesus PRAYED the Father that He might glorify the Father, and the Father might glorify Him. Even though it was Jesus' own will, He would have his will be his Father’s will. So now here Jesus is facing the full reality of the crisis of the cross, ‘YOUR will shall be done, my Father; THIS IS my hour, come, glorify Yourself in Me, fully.’ And the only way to glorify Himself for the Father is to “leave” the Son to do his will, perfectly. I understand more a ‘sanctifying’ / ‘hallowing’ ‘setting apart’ of the Son by the Father in this Scripture. He ‘separated’ the Son for holy purpose and end as “our Passover”, “the Lamb of God”. “Why” or ‘What have you sanctified Me for, my Father? For that which I prayed you, for: “Not my will, but YOUR will, be done.” Jesus spoke with his Father; He gave his life into his Father's hands how could there have come a separation, one of abandonment, a forsaking of Jesus by the Father? Not at all! In fact, when Jesus had died, at that very moment in time, the veil which covered the Shekinah of God's Presence from human gaze, was torn in two from the top to the bottom ... and God's Presence LEFT THE TEMPLE and would on the cross and afterwards in Joseph's grave, go "COVER" the body of Jesus so that "his flesh would see no corruption in death", and He would be "in Thy sight always" / “before thy face always", "always" even in death!. “Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy Presence from the pride of man,” Ps31:20 “my times in thy hand” Ps31:15 “Thou hast brought up my soul FROM THE GRAVE.” Ps30:3 “In the time of trouble He shall hide Me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall He hide me..” Ps27:5.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
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  5. BeStill&Know

    BeStill&Know Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I barely know 1 language.:scratch:
    I found your post to be very informative.
    Matthew 27:46 Tree of Life Version
    46 About the ninth hour Yeshua cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You abandoned Me?”
    I have not researched this (TLV) version, but do recall it was translated by Hebrew scholars. Probably from the Aramaic ?
    I'll look into that when I have more time.
    Of course I suspect you've heard say that God has to abandon, those in sin, and this is why Yeshua took upon Himself for us that abandonment.
    If we abide in Him, we will never be abandoned.:amen::amen::amen:
     
  6. BeStill&Know

    BeStill&Know Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here's the info. I found.
    Tree of Life Version (TLV)

    English

    A diverse community of Messianic Jewish and Christian scholars collaborated to produce The Tree of Life Messianic Family Bible-The New Covenant. Messianic rabbis, leaders, scholars, artists, professors, psalmists, linguists, writers, parents, and children came together to work on this groundbreaking version that is meant for the entire family to read and enjoy together. Wisdom is a tree of life to those who take hold of her, and happy are those who hold her fast (Proverbs 3:18). If you are a Jew who is curious about Messiah, this book will help you, with guidance from the Holy Spirit, to see how Yeshua became the Prophet, like Moses, full of glory, grace, and truth. Compare what the New Covenant says with what the Hebrew Bible says-the footnotes point the way for you. Many modern-day Christians recognize the value of rediscovering the Jewish roots of their faith, and Messianic Jews are growing in numbers and scholarship. The middle wall of partition is crumbling, and unity is being restored, teaching that diversity is strength.
     
  7. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Psalm 22 is no doubt a prophecy of David about Jesus Christ on the cross, but when people say he quoted it just to fulfill prophecy, I always think they are getting the cart before the horse, the prophecy was about what Jesus would do, just like all prophecies. But I get the fact that people just can't grasp why Jesus would say this about the Father. BUT, through a little logical thinking, in reality God gave this to me 30 years ago as a young Christian, but still, with logical thinking we can understand why Jesus said this.

    What did Jesus have upon him when he died ? ALL OF OUR SINS. Next question, can God come in the presence of Sin ? No. God's glory would consume a sinner, thus the need for the blood of Jesus.

    When all of our sins were upon Jesus, the Holy Spirit/God had to leave Jesus to pay the price on the cross alone. Thus, My God, My God why have you forsaken/left me ? Mary was even warned, don't touch me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father when she saw him at the grave site. The offering couldn't be profaned or God couldn't accept it. God can not be in the presence of sin, save the blood wipes away the sin first.
     
  8. BeStill&Know

    BeStill&Know Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thankful :oldthumbsup: you stated the Gospel for any one who is not aware of this fact:amen:
     
  9. Brotherly Spirit

    Brotherly Spirit Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Informative thread though it's years old. I read Mark 15 this morning having two questions in mind: "Why did Jesus say 'My God, My God, Why have You forsaken Me?' and What's the meaning behind the tearing of the temple's veil?"

    Seemed odd to me Jesus the Son of God would doubt his Father. His faith was strong since the beginning when lead in the Spirit where he was in the wilderness being tempted by Satan. Also prayed multiple times to the Father for his will be done, even when his own will wanted him not to suffer if possible.

    Originally I thought the tearing of the temple veil symbolized the ending of the Old Covenant. That it was a condemnation of the Jews for their denial of Christ. While the Father may have left the temple for the Son symbolizing a New Covenant not confined by a material thing built by man, it's not necessarily an unmerciful and unforgiving judgment. Jesus had said along the lines, "Forgive them for they know not what they do." (Luke 23:34-36) Had thought it was limited to the Romans as gentiles, but they and the Jews were involved in the persecution of Jesus. Both mocked him, hit him and had judged and condemned him. (Mark 14:63-65, Mark 15:15-16-, Mark 15:17-20)

    Also here's a site I found earlier giving an interesting historical/traditional Jewish perspective behind the meaning of the temple's veil tearing: The Ripping of the Veil
     
  10. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus was only quoting David. God had not forsaken Jesus nor did Jesus think he had. There is nothing about God being unable to be in the presence of sin either. Satan himself was in God's presence! Many sinners have been as well. God's glory also does not consume sinners. God is in full control of all his abilities and doesn't just destroy people who are too close.

    Wrote this years ago:

    Neither the Father nor the Father's Spirit forsook Jesus at any time. It is clear that Jesus was only quoting Psalms not speaking those words as if they applied directly to his situation. At no time did the Father forsake the Son. I believe he most likely spoke the entire chapter and that it was a sign for us to go to Psalms and read this prophecy. The words about being forsaken come from what David feared, not Christ.



    Christ never addressed his Father by saying "God" he always used "Father" when speaking or praying to Him proving that he was not speaking to his Father when he said those things on the cross. He was indeed teaching.




    Have you ever quoted scripture? Does it mean you are saying those words and that they apply to your life? I've quoted that same portion in Psalms but didn't mean that God forsook me. Christ probably quoted the entire chapter but even if he stopped with that one verse it means that he was fulfilling the prophecy of Messiah and dying for us as we see in that chapter. It was David that felt God had forsaken him and it wasn't true. God didn't forsake David and he didn't forsake his own son.





    Psalms 22:1 <To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.> My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
    Psalms 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
    Psalms 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
    Psalms 22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
    Psalms 22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
    Psalms 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
    Psalms 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
    Psalms 22:8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.
    Psalms 22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
    Psalms 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.
    Psalms 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
    Psalms 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
    Psalms 22:13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
    Psalms 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
    Psalms 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
    Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
    Psalms 22:17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
    Psalms 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
    Psalms 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
    Psalms 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
    Psalms 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
    Psalms 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
    Psalms 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
    Psalms 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
    Psalms 22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
    Psalms 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
    Psalms 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
    Psalms 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
    Psalms 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
    Psalms 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
    Psalms 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.

    Psa 22:1 To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?


    He wasn't talking to his Father but quoting scripture to show prophecy had been fulfilled. Not everything in the Psalms 22 is Messianic prophetically speaking.

    Psa 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.


    Christ didn't cry in the day time and his Father certainly heard him when he did speak to Him.


    Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.


    If God will never leave or forsake us, why think he forsook his own son who is God as well?


    Some claim Christ was made sin (a figure of speech that means he was the sin offering NOT that he was sin) and that somehow meant the Father couldn't stand him or had to look away or something like that but the truth is God can be in the presence of any sinner whether literally or spiritually. He spent time with satan himself in heaven with no issues. The Father wouldn't have any reason at all to abandon or forsake his own Son! God fellowshipped with sinners like David and Moses and countless others. God won't fellowship with those that don't love him. Only those would he forsake and only because they forsake him first which is similar to when God forsook Israel. He only did so because they had committed religious adultery and fornication with false gods.



    Let's ask ourselves who really benefits from the theory that God the Father can forsake God the Son ie: one person of the Trinity forsaking another person of the Trinity? Satan benefits! Anti-Trinitarians benefit. It shows a weak Trinity who can turn their back against themselves yet in Job we see God having multiple conversations with the most evil, sinful being that has ever existed. So would God really turn his face from his own beloved Son and not turn his face from satan? Seriously, the doctrines people believe in astonish me at times!



    Mat 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
    Mat 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
    Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?


    About the 9th hour Christ supposedly exclaims that God has forsaken him yet in Luke at the same time we see something quite different:

    Luk 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
    Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
    Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

    So was he forsaken because God could not stand the sin he bore or was he confident he was about to be received into the hands of his Father who did not have his back turned to him and who was not forsaking him at all?


    Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
    Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
    Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
    Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
    Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

    The Lord never left or abandoned Christ according to this.

    Clarke:

    For David speaketh concerning him - The quotation here is made from Psa_16:8-11 (note), which contains a most remarkable prophecy concerning Christ, every word of which applies to him, and to him exclusively.

    Gill:

    Acts 2:25
    For David speaketh concerning him,.... The Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, in Psa_16:8. The whole psalm belongs to the Messiah, and everything concerning the person in it agrees with him; such as his trust in God, Psa_16:1 as he was man and Mediator; his very great regard to the saints, and delight in them, Psa_16:2 his disregard to others who were hastening after another God, or another Saviour, whose sacrifices, as an high priest, he would not offer up, nor make intercession for them, Psa_16:4 his exceeding great satisfaction in having the God of Israel for his portion, and in having his lot cast among his peculiar people, who were a delightful inheritance to him, Psa_16:5 his thankfulness for advice and direction in the time of his sorrows and sufferings


    Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
    Joh 16:29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
    Joh 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
    Joh 16:31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?
    Joh 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.

    The disciples would abandon Christ but the Father never would! This is prophecy and Jesus is not a false prophet so his words are true. The disciples would leave him but the Father would not.
     
  11. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    You do realize Psalm 22 is a prophetic utter of Jesus on the cross right? REREAD IT.
     
  12. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Doesn't change the fact that God never forsook Christ nor did Christ think such a thing. Did you read the post and all the evidence of this?


    Perhaps you should.
     
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I decided to take a look at the Hebrew and Greek for that verse.

    Psalm 22:1

    JPS Tanakh 1917
    For the Leader; upon Aijeleth ha-Shahar. A Psalm of David.
    My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me,
    And art far from my help at the words of my cry?
    King James Bible
    To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
    why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
    NET Bible
    For the music director; according to the tune "Morning Doe;" a psalm of David. My God, my God,
    why have you abandoned me? I groan in prayer, but help seems far away.
    American Standard Version
    My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
    Why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning?
    Young's Literal Translation
    To the Overseer, on 'The Hind of the Morning.' -- A Psalm of David. My God, my God,
    why hast Thou forsaken me? Far from my salvation, The words of my roaring?

    Psalms 22:
    2 'El<410> of me, 'El<410> of me, to-why thou forsook/05800 `azab me?
    Far from salvation of me, words of roaring/moaning of me.


    410 'el ale shortened from 352; strength; as adjective, mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity):--God (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might(-y one), power, strong. Compare names in "-el."
    5800 `azab aw-zab' a primitive root; to loosen, i.e. relinquish, permit, etc.:--commit self, fail, forsake, fortify, help, leave (destitute, off), refuse, X surely.

    What is interesting to me is the 2 different Greek words used for God in these 2 verses, #2241 and #1682.
    They both start with 'El...... hli<2241> elwi<1682>
    And the same with the 2nd part........ qee<2316> qeoV<2316>
    .Not sure what the significance it. Any ideas?

    Matthew 27:46
    And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli/hli<2241>, Eli/hli<2241>, lama <2982> sabachthani/sabacqani <4518r>
    that is, God/qee<2316> of Me, God/qee <2316>of Me, why hast thou forsaken/egkatelipeV <1459> me?


    2241. eli ay-lee' of Hebrew origin (410 with pronominal suffix); my God:-- Eli.

    Mark 15:34
    and at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a great voice, saying, `Eloi/elwi<1682>, Eloi/elwi <1682>, lamma<2982> sabacqani <4518>?'
    which is, being interpreted, the `God/qeoV<2316> of me, the God/qeoV<2316> of me, why didst Thou forsake/egkatelipeV<1459> me?'


    1682. eloi el-o-ee' of Chaldean origin (426 with pronominal suffix) my God:--Eloi.

    2316.
    theos theh'-os of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:--X exceeding, God, god(-ly, -ward).

    1459. egkataleipo eng-kat-al-i'-po from 1722 and 2641; to leave behind in some place, i.e. (in a good sense) let remain over, or (in a bad sense) to desert:--forsake, leave.

    Psalm 22:1

    Verse 1. - My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Not a cry of despair, but a cry of loving faith, "My God, my God - Why hast thou for a time withdrawn thyself?"
    It is remarkable that our Lord's quotation of this passage does not follow exactly either the Hebrew or the Chaldee paraphrase - the Hebrew having 'azab-thani for sabacthani, and the Chaldee paraphrase metul ma for lama. May we not conclude that it is the thought, and not its verbal expression by the sacred writers, that is inspired? Why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

    It is very doubtful whether our translators have done right in supplying the words which they have added. The natural translation of the Hebrew would be, Far from my salvation are the words of my roaring. And this rendering yields a sufficiently good sense, viz. "Far from effecting my salvation (or deliverance) are the words of my roaring;" i.e. of my loud complaint. Our Lord's "strong crying and tears" in the garden (Hebrews 5:7) did not produce his deliverance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Thanks for that info.
    First I have heard of that version. Thanks for mentioning it.
    I am going to see if it is available online to read.....

    Messianic Bible translations - Wikipedia

    Tree of Life Version (TLV)

    The Tree of Life Version is a translation of the Bible from the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts by a collaborative team of over 70 people, including 34 Ph.Ds, for the purpose of crafting a vetted, authoritative translation by Jewish and Non-Jewish believers in Jesus.
    This project was spearheaded by the Tree of Life Bible Society[7] (Messianic Jewish Family Bible Society)[8] - a non-profit 501(C)(3) organization seeking to represent the various branches of modern Messianic Judaism while safeguarding the text. The Tree of Life Version used the Masoretic Texts, 27th Nestle-Alland Novum Testemetum Graece, The Septuagint, and other reputable sources for their translation origination.

    With goals of being "...as reverent as the King James Version (KJV), as readable as the New International Version (NIV), and as accurate as the New American Standard (NASB)," the Tree of Life Version is a word-for-word translation, maintaining much of the Hebrew idiom and syntax, as well as maintaining the historical-present tense of the Greek.

    Sixteen key principles of translation were developed by the Board of Directors, which then guided the seven-step translation process. The Tree of Life Version also uses the Jewish canon of the Old Testament or TANAKH and follows Jewish tradition of replacing the unpronounceable name of God (The Tetragrammaton) with the Hebrew word for Lord - Adonai.
    Additionally, there is minimal usage of transliteration, using it sparingly for Hebraic concepts that are often not easily translatable into English, such as shalom, chesed, and ruach. The Tree of Life Version refrains from using Yiddish or modern Hebrew phrases in order to avoid anachronisms.

    The Tree of Life Version was begun in 2009 and published in its entirety by the Tree of Life Bible Society (Messianic Jewish Family Bible Society) in 2014.[9] The Tree of Life New Covenant was published in 2011 by Destiny Image Publishers.
    The Tree of Life New Covenant could also be found in the Shared Heritage Bible, paired with the 1917 Jewish Publication Society Old Testament (TANAKH), published by Destiny Image Publishers in 2012. The Tree of Life Version was licensed by Baker Publishing Group in 2015, who then published the Tree of Life Version — Thinline Edition in 2016.[10]

    http://kehilanews.com/2016/12/15/a-new-messianic-jewish-bible-translation-tree-of-life-version/

    This version is unique because, for the first time in 2,000 years, a group of Jewish believing scholars came together to work on a translation of the Bible. In particular, Messianic Jewish scholars who had lived and worked separately from each other in diverse communities and organizations, joined together on the translation team.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  15. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    I don't need to read other men's opinions, that is why we have the Holy Spirit to lead us unto truth. You forsake only means to leave, God left Jesus all alone on the cross, that's a fact, Jesus the sacrifice took our sins upon him, Gods Spirit foes not stay in the presence of sin. You can believe however you wish, it doesn't change what the Holy Spirit revealed unto me.
     
  16. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's not a fact it's nonsense and is impossible for God to forsake God.
     
  17. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    for·sake
    fərˈsāk/
    verb
    literary
    1. abandon (someone or something).
      "he would never forsake Tara"
      synonyms: abandon, desert, leave, leave high and dry, turn one's back on, cast aside,
    The Holy Spirit HAD TO LEAVE Jesus when he Sins of the world came upon him ON THE CROSS. Jesus had no sins, when all of our sins came upon him, the Holy Spirit had to leave, if you can't understand this I can't wave a wand and make it come unto you brother, all I can do is tell you the facts. You see the prophecy, and then the fulfillment and don't get it.

    The PRESENCE OF GOD HAD TO LEAVE THE FLESH SACRIFICE WHEN ALL THE SINS OF ALL TIME CAME UPON Jesus.

    Whether you understand that or not doesn't change the facts brother. You would rather believe, Ohh Jesus just quoted the Scripture to fulfill something David said, Prophecy don't work like that, David prophesied Jesus on the Cross and WHAT HE SAID, Jesus was God AND Man and God's spirit Left, leaving only the flesh man. That makes the Prophesy MAKE SENSE, but somehow you don't buy it. But I don't concern myself with men, I just follow the Holy Spirit.
     
  18. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yeah well the Trinity I believe in does not and can not forsake themselves. The Holy Spirit never left Jesus. This is a BAD doctrine.
     
  19. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Imagine how confusing the Trinity is to the Jews and Mulims of today.

    John 6:
    59 Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. 60 On hearing it, many of His disciples said, “This is a difficult teaching. Who can accept it?”
    61 Aware that His disciples were grumbling about this teaching, Jesus asked them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?
    66 From that time on, many of His disciples turned back and no longer walked with Him. 67 So Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?”


    [​IMG]
     
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