My Flat Earth Challenge

Aryeh Jay

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I was going to ask if you can see the Southern Cross in the night sky from there, but if it was raining all the time...

Manta is 107 km south of the equator and I am pretty sure that you can start seeing it in the northern hemisphere around 20-25 degrees. But yes, the weather did not cooperate. I traveled down there on a military ship and every night I would look at the stars, so it was a gradual change and not like I got off from a flight to OZ from the US.
 
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prodromos

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As far as I'm concerned, that's all the proof you need, but flat-earthers find a way to answer everything. :sigh:
I don't think they have ever given an answer to that. They just claim the photos or videos are faked, just like the one from a base in Antarctica which shows the sun visible for 24 hours in December, another flat earth impossibility.
 
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chilehed

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I spent a week in Manta Ecuador in February, it was quite rainy.
Further modifications to the rules:
The loser of the challenge will:
6. Pay the full cost of the winner’s trip, using funds which will have been previously deposited in an escrow account. This means costs associated with getting from home to the challenge site and while at the challenge site during the period of the challenge itself (travel fare, lodging and meals (not including alcohol or other mood-altering drugs, nor tobacco)), as well as the cost of the dome to be used in the challenge. It does not include expenses incurred while extending the trip either before or after the challenge, for any emergency or medical services needed, or for bringing other people along.
In the event that the weather on the coast is uncooperative, the event will be held at an alternate location in the mountains.​

Seriously, no interest? I'm seeing flights from Michigan to Guayaquil for about $1k, if I win the loser will probably only be out, I dunno, maybe fifteen hundred? With the amount of smack that flat-earthers talk trying to convince folks that they're right I might have expected a whole pile them to jump on this. I wonder why I'm getting crickets? :scratch:

:idea:
 
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jayem

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On the beach, at a sufficiently dark location, we will erect a clear dome of some appropriate construction such that it can hold three people and a chair, which will be in the center of the dome. The third person will be a disinterested third party agreed on by both of us (a local priest or nun, perhaps), who is hereinafter called The Observer. After sunset, we will pick three or four bright stars in both the northern and southern hemispheres and mark their locations on the surface of the dome, as seen from The Observer as he sits in the chair. After The Observer indicates the positions of the stars we will each in turn sit in the chair to confirm that we agree with his selection.

Why bother constructing and making observations from a dome? Just look out window on your flight. Or take a flight anywhere. If it's a clear, cloudless day, and you're flying above 35,000 ft., you'll see the horizon is convexly curved. And it doesn't matter in which direction you're heading--north, south, east, or west, the curve is the same.
 
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Lady Bug

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Why bother constructing and making observations from a dome? Just look out window on your flight. Or take a flight anywhere. If it's a clear, cloudless day, and you're flying above 35,000 ft., you'll see the horizon is convexly curved. And it doesn't matter in which direction you're heading--north, south, east, or west, the curve is the same.
I'm convinced, but all they'll tell you is that the plane windows are designed to manipulate you into seeing a curved horizon.
 
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prodromos

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Why bother constructing and making observations from a dome? Just look out window on your flight. Or take a flight anywhere. If it's a clear, cloudless day, and you're flying above 35,000 ft., you'll see the horizon is convexly curved. And it doesn't matter in which direction you're heading--north, south, east, or west, the curve is the same.
It is still pretty subjective at that altitude. You can't really discern the curvature until a you go quite a bit higher, but then it is quite obvious.
 
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jayem

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I'm convinced, but all they'll tell you is that the plane windows are designed to manipulate you into seeing a curved horizon.

Yes, I've heard that. Though I never heard an explanation of what kind of glass would make the horizon appear curved, and not distort everything else. Or why all the airlines would want to trick their passengers in this way. It makes not an iota of sense.

Flat earth believers remind me of a lyric from an old Doobie Bros. song:

But what a fool believes--he sees,
No wise man has the power
To reason away... :oldthumbsup:
 
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jayem

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It is still pretty subjective at that altitude. You can't really discern the curvature until a you go quite a bit higher, but then it is quite obvious.

I've flown at 37K. With good visibility, the curve is gentle, but it's discernible.
 
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prodromos

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I've flown at 37K. With good visibility, the curve is gentle, but it's discernible.
More importantly, the horizon is way below eye level at that altitude, which it wouldn't be if the earth were flat.
 
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46AND2

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The Flat Earth model posits that
1. The earth is a flat disc with the north pole at the center of the disc.
2. The coast of Antarctica is distributed along the circumference of the edge of the disk.
3. The entire disk rotates about an axis that is perpendicular to the ground at the north pole.​

If that’s true, it necessarily means that
4. No one on Earth can see any part of the sky that is below the plane of the earth’s disc (except for maybe those agents of the international Illuminati/NASA/Freemason/Fluoridated Water black-ops conspiracy who are supposed to be keeping people from visiting Antarctica and doing a poor job of it - but they don't count because they ain't talking).
5. Every observer anywhere on earth, when looking at the sky, will see that
a.) All celestial objects move in a counterclockwise direction, along circles that have the North Star (Polaris) at the center.
b.) No celestial object will move along circles that have a center point other than Polaris, or in a clockwise direction around their center point.​

THE CHALLENGE:
We will meet in Guayaquil, Ecuador. I’ve picked Ecuador for the obvious reason that it’s on the equator, and for the less obvious reason that while we’re there I want go to Montecristi to buy a Panama hat and Guayaquil is the closest major airport (for more on this visit www.brentblack.com to see why you really need to get a good Panama hat).

From Guayaquil we will travel to San Lorenzo, chosen because it’s on the beach and I’ll be in the mood to hang out on the beach in Ecuador in February and eat seafood and stuff. Oh yeah, I forgot – let’s do this in February because Michigan sucks in February unless maybe you’re a deranged downhill skier (which, in fact, I am, but even with that Michigan still sucks in February).

On the beach, at a sufficiently dark location, we will erect a clear dome of some appropriate construction such that it can hold three people and a chair, which will be in the center of the dome. The third person will be a disinterested third party agreed on by both of us (a local priest or nun, perhaps), who is hereinafter called The Observer. After sunset, we will pick three or four bright stars in both the northern and southern hemispheres and mark their locations on the surface of the dome, as seen from The Observer as he sits in the chair. After The Observer indicates the positions of the stars we will each in turn sit in the chair to confirm that we agree with his selection.

The Observer will make observations hourly in this manner until sunup. We will remain awake by drinking caffeinated beverages, eating the weirdest local food we can find, and discussing Life, the Universe, and Everything. The entire event will be streamed live to the web; yes, it will probably be pretty boring for the people watching it but it won't be any more boring than the video that guy made of a bubble level while he flew to Oz.

At dawn, we will inspect the paths of the stars that are recorded on the dome. If the paths are consistent with 5a and 5b given above then the Flat Earth model will have been proven to be true and the Globe Earth model proven false, otherwise the Flat Earth model will have been proven false and the Globe Earth model proven true.

The loser of the challenge will:
1. Admit on live-streamed video that he lost, and that his model has been definitively and finally proven to be false.
2. Solemnly swear to always in the future publicly affirm and teach the proven model, especially when he hears someone espouse the disproven model.
3. Eat (also on video) an entire Cuy Asado (roasted guinea pig) and a serving of Librillo (a local dish made of the stomach of a cow).
4. Travel with the winner to Montecristi, and there purchase for him the finest Panama hat in town.
5. Pay the full cost of the winner’s trip, including travel expenses, lodging, and meals (not including alcoholic beverages) using funds which will have been previously deposited in an escrow account.​

Any takers? Obviously, I take the Globe Earth position.


Awesome. You should go during an equinox, though, so you can also show them about my thread here:

Where is the Curve, Flat-Earthers?
 
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chilehed

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Awesome. You should go during an equinox, though...
Ummmm.... Michigan. Winter. Ecuador. Beach.

But I certainly support any attempt you make to get a free vacation for yourself. Great thread, and the comments on Bislin's page are priceless!
 
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46AND2

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Ummmm.... Michigan. Winter. Ecuador. Beach.

But I certainly support any attempt you make to get a free vacation for yourself. Great thread, and the comments on Bislin's page are priceless!

Haha. Yeah, I lived in Michigan for a while. Know what you mean.
 
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46AND2

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Great thread, and the comments on Bislin's page are priceless!

The comments section is quite entertaining. Anecdotally, Jos Leys gave him a shoutout in the comments section; if you haven't had a chance to see HIS YouTube videos, I highly recommend. He does some really cool digital modelling.
 
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prodromos

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I've flown at 37K. With good visibility, the curve is gentle, but it's discernible.
Kip Daugirdas recently successfully launched a model rocket in 2 stages to a little under 300,000 ft, equipped with gopros with rectilinear lenses. The curcve on the horizon is clearly visible.
 
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Estrid

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Kip Daugirdas recently successfully launched a model rocket in 2 stages to a little under 300,000 ft, equipped with gopros with rectilinear lenses. The curcve on the horizon is clearly visible.
Fisheye lens
 
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