My first vent...lol!

seamonster · Jun 11, 2008

Good for you for standing up for yourself.

Here is the article on the CDC site, in case anyone is interested: http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/gen/humancell.htm

I actually didn't know it actually talks about that on the site!

jgonz · Jun 11, 2008

On a side note, has anyone ever been recommended to use Versed on your child to allow the dentist to work on his/her teeth?

My (now) 8 yr old had to visit the pediatric dentist back when he was 2 yrs old for some Major dental work. 2 of his teeth were basically rotting because he would Not let our regular dentist work on him. He was totally freaked out... Anyway, I looked all over our city and every single ped. dentist would Not allow the parent in the room while they were working on the child's teeth. I finally found a pediatric dentist in the next city over (40 minutes away) who not only allowed parents, but Expected the parents to be with their child. Very refreshing! My son had concious sedation, but I don't know what drug it was (sorry).

My younger DD also needed dental work done when she was 2.5, but I was able to use Benadryl on her to relax her enough for our regular dentist to use the nitrous oxide and get her work done. We never had to use a papoose thingy for either of the kids though... Although the baby was in a papoose thingy for getting his tongue-tie clipped (absolutely essential as he was only 2.5 weeks old).

heart of peace · Jun 13, 2008

jgonz said:
My son had concious sedation, but I don't know what drug it was (sorry).

My younger DD also needed dental work done when she was 2.5, but I was able to use Benadryl on her to relax her enough for our regular dentist to use the nitrous oxide and get her work done.

I did find a dentist in my area whose receptionist said that she follows the same procedure you outlined above for your daughter. The only issue is she does not work with any insurance companies but submits claims to the insurance as a courtesy, which translates into me paying full cash price up front and then I have to wait on the insurance company to reimburse me. It is a bit annoying but something I am willing to do for a dentist that is a good fit for my family's needs. She is a pediatric dentist with her own practice and does all work in private rooms. My son's last dentist had a much larger practice with all the kids getting oral exams in one open room (which is not a good fit for my son's needs).

Versed is a drug used for conscious sedation and if I had to choose between that or general anesthesia, I'd definitely choose that. But I don't believe my son's dental issues warrant the use of any form of sedation at all (his dentist recommended it as a way to ward off "dentist phobias" or traumatic memories of the dentist's office). I am very comfortable with giving him some med of some sort to take the edge off, though.

Linnis said:
I've had someone suggest thing because DS, who's 19 months has a tooth that needs fixed. If we can't find a way to keep him still he'll be 4 or 5 before it's fixed. I'm actually thinking about it. Also if you can have your child held down rather than being put to sleep, pain medicine is still being used so they don't feel it, they just aren't knocked out.

I'm sure most parents would want to avoid sedating their child if they can.

I agree, I'd prefer not to sedate my child. If I could wait until he was older, I would. I can't though.

Neenie1 said:
I can't believe people use those for going to the dentist. Wow, I find it hard to believe it's legal.

Neenie, what makes it hard to believe it is legal? I would be much more concerned if a dentist used a drill around a young child's mouth with his hands being able to flap around and possibly hit the drill causing the drill to cut into his gums or worse. Or in GolfingMom's sons's situation with his eye injury. What concerns me is the overuse of papooses and that they are used as a first option without a second thought.

heart of peace · Jun 13, 2008

JulySheMustFly said:
That was just the first pic that came up. I didn't mean to make a blanket statement. For my sis it has always been a big issue for a variety of reasons. She has had to use versed in the past. Her oral health is complicated as well so I understand how for some it is the best option. I was mostly speaking of my children. I hope I didn't make you feel judged for doing what you need to for the health of your child. It was never my intent.

I tried to do a search for the type of papoose used with my son but I couldn't find it. If you don't mind responding, I was curious about how your sis handled versed and at what age Versed was administered to her? If it is too personal, I understand.

I thought you were speaking about you specifically about the dental not being a severe medical need. I just wanted to clarify that in my son's case it is borderline severe (we spend much more time at the dentist's office than we do at the medical docs office!).

Thanks for the follow up

RedTulipMom · Jun 13, 2008

You did a good job. i am thankful i don't have to deal with a regular doctor since i don't vacc. i am really blessed here in chicago to have Homefirst Healthcare, they are holistic, they have doctors that will come to your house for homebirths. They actually try to talk you out of vaxing, but they will vax if you request it. They are VERY pro-breastfeeding as well. i love them! lol

Beth1231 · Jun 13, 2008

I think you did awesome. I'm not going back to the ped who questions me, uses scare tactics, etc. I have an appointment with a ped who does not do vaxes soon. I think they are pretty rare though.

Drs do not like it when you try to mess up their routines and make "special" requests. Tough beans because like Linnis said I AM THEIR BOSS and if they give me a whole lot of trouble, I'm going to give them trouble in the form of letting them know that the decision has been researched and made and back off.

I know it's so hard to deal with that stuff when you are in a tiny room with a Dr and your child. It's like my willpower melts into the cracks of the sterile floor.

TexasSky · Jun 13, 2008

Okay - First, good job on standing up for yourself!

Second - Try to cut the doctor some slack.

Doctors/med students are assertive by nature, and one of their biggest frustrations in life is running into people who have no medical training telling doctors "what is what" in the medical field. Especially if the information came off the internet because so very, very, very much information on the internet is wrong. Doctors take the view that you have no idea what you are talking about. For a short period of time in my life I was a medical grant writer. It was amazing how quickly their tone changed with me when they found that out. Suddenly I was "more educated" than I was 3 seconds before they knew that. *Rolls eyes*.

As to the student coming in. In a teaching facility, it is very common for the med students and residents to follow the doctors like shadows. Some of this is to educate the student, some of this is actually for the doctor's protection. Ears that hear and eyes that see can prevent law suits later down the road. If you are uncomfortable with a medical student or resident in the room you should speak up and say something. Do not, though, be surprised if a nurse replaces the med student.

Next time you want to debate the vaccines, do NOT come to the doctor with, "I heard," or "I read." Come with the article and source in hand.

In your eyes, you are preventing your child from receiving fetal tissue.
In that doctor's eyes, you are possibly exposing your child to a deadly illness, and in turn, exposing others to a deadly illness.

You just have to show him that you are not some fly-by-night person who picked up information at some cult-meeting, and rather that your source is a reliable, scientific report.

heart of peace · Jun 13, 2008

TexasSky said:
Doctors/med students are assertive by nature, and one of their biggest frustrations in life is running into people who have no medical training telling doctors "what is what" in the medical field. Especially if the information came off the internet because so very, very, very much information on the internet is wrong. Doctors take the view that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I suppose that is why I felt apologetic. I respect his education, experience and credentials. I realize that he is an authority on these issues. So, I felt disrespectful even having such a discussion with him.

Next time you want to debate the vaccines, do NOT come to the doctor with, "I heard," or "I read." Come with the article and source in hand.

You just have to show him that you are not some fly-by-night person who picked up information at some cult-meeting, and rather that your source is a reliable, scientific report.

Great advice, TexasSky and something I shall consider for future reference. However, I did not come armed to debate, I did not think I was going to have to debate the issue. When I stumbled in to their office and found out they separate the MMR shot and are willing to allow parents to selectively and delay vax, I thought I wouldn't have any resistance by the docs.

However, don't you think that if I walked in there with documents I would have immediately come off argumentative?

TexasSky · Jun 13, 2008

It all depends on the approach, and I have seen you post so much that I seriously doubt you would come across as argumentative.

I imagine that in your case it would more or less go along the lines of:

Doctor: "Lets give him the MMR."
You: "Actually, I was reading this article," (dig it out of a purse and hand it over), "And some other material, and I have both religious and medical concerns about the shot. I feel at this time I should exercise my rights to have the shots broken out."
Doctor: "Well, I think what you heard was wrong."
You: "I understand that, but it came from a reliable source. Please, read over this article, and then if you disagree with the science in it, explain to me why you disagree with the science, and for the time being I ask you to respect my concerns."

Neenie1 · Jun 14, 2008

Neenie, what makes it hard to believe it is legal? I would be much more concerned if a dentist used a drill around a young child's mouth with his hands being able to flap around and possibly hit the drill causing the drill to cut into his gums or worse. Or in GolfingMom's sons's situation with his eye injury. What concerns me is the overuse of papooses and that they are used as a first option without a second thought.[/quote]

Yes you are right. I thought about it some more after reading the other posts. I don't think I've ever seen something like that used in Australia, but then my kids haven't had to use one, so I don't know if they are used here or not.

AJ29 · Jun 14, 2008

Neenie1 said:
Yes you are right. I thought about it some more after reading the other posts. I don't think I've ever seen something like that used in Australia, but then my kids haven't had to use one, so I don't know if they are used here or not.

Papooses do get used in Australia!

My son needed stitches on his foot when he was around 2. There was no way he would hold still enough to have his foot stitched so he was wrapped tightly in a sheet from shoulders to ankles so that he couldn't move or kick. Several nurses also had to hold him down - it was pretty traumatic! The same procedure had to be followed to remove the stitches, as he wouldn't allow anyone near his foot. His dad and I had both tried to remove his stitches ourselves, at home, when we were all relaxed, but the moment you got near him, he screamed. Wrapping him up papoose style was the only way to do it.

I think you would probably find it is pretty common to use papooses (or wrap in sheets) for medical procedures, although I have never heard of them being used or suggested for dental work. Most kids I know (under school age) are fully sedated for dental work - it isn't just done in the chair. Also, many dentists here just leave baby teeth alone unless they are causing pain.

Neenie1 · Jun 15, 2008

Yeah my son had to have stitches at around 15 months and they didn't use one. It took dh and I to hold him down. Hopefully never have to do that again.

sphsjags · Jun 16, 2008

"Next time don't get into the debate. Don't explain yourself. You are the parent he is the doctor. You employ him. You can fire him. He is your child, You hold the power. [Cue He-Man music]. "

Exactly. I applaud you for standing your ground. I'm glad you did research so that you knew what was going on and didn't just take his crap like alot of other sap parents who don't care

My first vent...lol!

happy goth

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