My Final Conclusion about Science and Religion

[Matthew777]

Now that all the three posts are up.

Matthew777 you are a true idiot.

I am not going to lie, this thread truly bothers me given that it reminds me too much of myself and my own life. I am not an idiot but one who has found the truth, and having it, is dissapointed that she has lost faith.
In the final analysis, nothing really matters in this life aside from faith and therefore, it's a good thing that we can have faith in solid facts.

 

[Oonna]

It takes alot of guts to do what you just did aeroz19. You must be a incredibly strong, intelligent, confidant woman. And i applaud you. It really must have really been crushing to find out all of the things you were taught about life weren't true. I guess the saying "The truth will set you free" must have a special meaning for you. Good luck and keep looking for those answers, it can only make you a better person.

 

[DrunkenWrestler]

I am not an idiot but one who has found the truth, and having it, is dissapointed that she has lost faith.

Please come down from your ivory tower.

faith in solid facts.

That's an oxymoron.

 

[Glass*Soul]

...therefore I have renounced Christianity.

Just out of personal curiosity, does it scare you at all to say that?

 

[Jetgirl]

Hey, here's an idea, let's talk about the really intersting OP, instead of someone who can't see fit to honor a simple request in good faith.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

aeroz

You are obviously a very intelligent, determined, and articulate person. You also have done a lot of introspection and have both challenged educated yourself. I think you must have undergone some substantial growth - to the point that your family may be wondering what is going on. Congradulations on gaining so much insight, not only into the universe, but into yourself as well.

 

[mikeynov]

I am not going to lie, this thread truly bothers me given that it reminds me too much of myself and my own life. I am not an idiot but one who has found the truth, and having it, is dissapointed that she has lost faith.
In the final analysis, nothing really matters in this life aside from faith and therefore, it's a good thing that we can have faith in solid facts.

You mean, in the final analysis, nothing matters more to you than faith. And not just faith, but faith in your own brand of deity. And stating your opinion as being self-evident.

Matthew, to be frank, aeroz has demonstrated some basic, working knowledge of relevent subjects on this board. You have not. That's a pretty apparent difference to most of the people reading this thread, and it goes a long way to explain how you "found your way" back to OEC/ID nonsense.

I notice this as an invariable pattern - people who "use to be evolutionists" never really understood evolution to begin with.

 

[Dr.GH]

aeroz19,

Congratulations for writing a very interesting, and personally brave essay. I am of the general opinion that creationism produces more athiests that the "official" professional athiest activists such as Richard Dawkins, or Anthony Flew.

There are of course different ways to interpret the Bible, and the existance of God (or of gods for that matter). And while we are in common agreement (as I understand your position), this is not the only posibile accomodation between science and faith.

Best wishes.

 

[mikeynov]

To aeroz:

You have displayed more intellectual honesty than most people I've seen who formerly held YEC beliefs. Keep searching, keep an open mind, and keep up this intellectual honesty, and I think everything will be a-okay.

 

[Osiris]

Great experience aeroz, something I can relate to, although I really didn't like going to church as a kid. But I was forced to sit and listen to their views on evolution and whatnot, and I also went around house to house talking to people about the bible. (Yeah, I was one of those I am sorry if I knocked on one of your door while you were watching television ). Even though I didn't like attending, I did believe it, and I did felt guilty at the end of the day for not attending. Anyways, I went online to religious chatrooms as a strong theist, time passed by, I came here here as a mix of theist/agnostic... and now I am a happy atheist. (Before the summer ends I plan to hit the gym, so that'll make me a strong atheist.. )

You ignored a polite request: hardly likely to impact favourably on your attempt at poselytising. Satan would be proud.

I think Satan if he posted here, would follow her request, I don't think even Satan is that rude.

 

[Osiris]

I am not going to lie, this thread truly bothers me given that it reminds me too much of myself and my own life. I am not an idiot but one who has found the truth, and having it, is dissapointed that she has lost faith.
In the final analysis, nothing really matters in this life aside from faith and therefore, it's a good thing that we can have faith in solid facts.

If God existed, I am pretty sure he wasn't going to send you to hell for following her request and waiting a few minutes.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Hurrah for YECism annihilating another person's faith.....

 

[Skeptick]

proof positive that a questioning mind will not easily be decieved.

 

[aeroz19]

- Self edit lest the post may result in a deletion of the whole thread -

Thank you.

 

[aeroz19]

I am not going to lie, this thread truly bothers me given that it reminds me too much of myself and my own life. I am not an idiot but one who has found the truth, and having it, is dissapointed that she has lost faith.
In the final analysis, nothing really matters in this life aside from faith and therefore, it's a good thing that we can have faith in solid facts.

You sound sincere in what you say, but since you were so rude as not to honor my simple request (indeed, it seems as though you did just the opposite), and are not sorry in the least bit, but rather proud of the fact, I am in the least bit willing to listen to anything you have to say.

You need to work on your approach. Blasting what you perceive to be the truth onto others is not a very good way; we'll all just ignore you.

 

[aeroz19]

Just out of personal curiosity, does it scare you at all to say that?

It used to scare me at first, when I was leaving my faith while not admitting that that is just what I was doing. It still scares me every now and then. I ask myself, what if the Christian god is real, and what if he is really the brute described in the old testament? Recently I have begun a new, more open-minded study of the Bible, ironically. And I am seeing things that used to bother me, years ago, that I would always justify and try to explain and rationalize away. But now I accept them for what they are with no struggle. Clearly, the Old Testament portrays god as unjust (punishing those who did no wrong) and full of human prejudice, expecting people to worship him perfectly (he kills people who made an error during one of the blood-sacrifice riturals). Mistakes and mishaps were not allowed.

And the idea of god being sated with blood never set well with me...my church didn't attempt to sugar coat that one either; god loves blood.

But yea, I still sometimes fear that maybe they're right and we're all going to hell. But the fear is gradually going away.

 

[aeroz19]

aeroz

You are obviously a very intelligent, determined, and articulate person. You also have done a lot of introspection and have both challenged educated yourself. I think you must have undergone some substantial growth - to the point that your family may be wondering what is going on. Congradulations on gaining so much insight, not only into the universe, but into yourself as well.

Wow. See, Matt, you could learn something from this Christian. This kind of post makes me wonder why (s)he believes in god. I ask myself the question, "Is there something (s)he knows that I don't know? Did I overlook something during my search?"

 

[HRE]

Hurrah for YECism annihilating another person's faith.....

I can see that point, but I would also say that a questioning of YECism can very easily (and, I believe, appropriately) lead to a questioning of other aspects that had been held firmly for so long.

 

[aeroz19]

You mean, in the final analysis, nothing matters more to you than faith. And not just faith, but faith in your own brand of deity. And stating your opinion as being self-evident.

Matthew, to be frank, aeroz has demonstrated some basic, working knowledge of relevent subjects on this board. You have not. That's a pretty apparent difference to most of the people reading this thread, and it goes a long way to explain how you "found your way" back to OEC/ID nonsense.

I notice this as an invariable pattern - people who "use to be evolutionists" never really understood evolution to begin with.

Actually, I have read his posts and he has a firm grasp of evolution. He continues to reject it because of a philosophy/reasoning about science that goes something like this: you need to be a Christian to be able to really understand science and reach correct conclusions. Without God you are doomed to reach incorrect conclusions and produce error.

 

[aeroz19]

I learned to not mix my theological beliefs with science. You remind me of what I went through a couple years ago, but I went the darkest times of doubt..I never gave up my personal belief in Jesus.

I don't remember a time when I gave up on Jesus, per say. I just gave up on God, and so Jesus went with him. But I do doubt a virgin birth. Since I have been doing research into other religions I have read many extraordinary or miraculous claims made about the heroes of myths, the starters/reformers of religions, the prophets and other really important figures, and it is obvious that they could not possibly be true and did not happen, and that these stories were created later on as exaggerated stories of what really happened, or as completely made-up tales to honor the person after they died. Such is most likely to be the case with Jesus.

I was so sheltered as a fundamentalist. I knew nothing of church history or how other churches conducted their services. I didn't know about sacraments or the Real Presence. And I didn't know that my denomination had not existed for the past 2000 years.

There might as well have been demons and all of kinds of stuff trying to convince me, but I remained a Christian.The stuff I believe is hard-core faith.

Why do you believe/accept such a notion? (circumstantial evidence category, most likely)

Why do you have faith?

So what do you believe as a result of your research? Or what conclusion have you come to?

The existence of the universe, the earth, and all that is: Most likely the explanation is completely natural, and not supernatural. Though, Einstein's sort of pantheistic statements on the issue get me thinking.

The condition of humankind: Humans are both good and evil. Some of us are terribly evil. But we are not all completely corrupted, evil, and desperately wicked--that is clear. Our moral condition and decisions are not 100% self-determined, but are determined also by factors that are out of our control. Sometimes poverty and horrible circumstances bring about the best in us, and in others these conditions bring about the worst in humanity. There is no simple black and white model for moral perfection. Wealth is only one determining factor out of many.

What are your new reasons for it not being true?

Just read my posts.