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MY favorite arguments for the existence of the Christian God:

AV1611VET

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I'm adding that to my list of all too common, unoriginal, favorite, meaningless comebacks. IOW, what we say when we have no real defense.
Wez awl hoamskood idjits cept for us smot ones who got they deeplomas from Paitreit Unaversety.

Wez kinda like them ignit, stoan age, gote hearding, dessert nomads they tawk aboute.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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...com·mon sense
  1. good sense and sound judgment in practical matters.
...
I rest my case unless someone else actually wants to tell me common sense has no place in determining where we came from.
I had in mind something more like the Cambridge Dictionary definition:
  1. the basic level of practical knowledge and judgment.

I know; it can be confusing to those without a scientific background, because even scientists sometimes use the word colloquially (to mean 'established beyond reasonable doubt'). Here's an article that should help explain: Common misconceptions about science I: “Scientific proof”.
 
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Dave RP

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I’m sorry to interfere in what seems to be a private argument, but the fundamental issue we all come on here to debate is nothing to do with common sense.

For atheists, there is absolutely no common sense in believing in god or gods. There is no evidence that they exist, no method of testing the existence or otherwise of any of the available god/s.

That doesn’t mean atheists understand all the scientific theories which abound, we don’t, no one does. But we do understand (well some atheists do!) that to believe that a scientific theory is valid, it will have been tested, tried, examined, re-tested etc. until the scientific community accepts the theory as a reasonable account of how the world/ universe/ earth work.

Religious faith relies on faith alone, the bible, the quoran, numerous other religious texts all are believed as “the truth” by their adherents, yet clearly only a proportion of those can be correct. Uneless religious adherents are prepared to say that there is only one god, not the god of any cult, that the bible is as valid as the quoran, that all religions are equal then they can’t talk about common sense.

Common sense dictates that if there is a universal, omnipresent supreme creator being, he/ it would not be bothered about being worshipped in the correct manner by a particular branch of a minute part of their creation.

Have faith if you like, that’s fine and is a personal thing, but common sense..... please leave that at out of s rational debate.
 
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Obliquinaut

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What is your problem? This has nothing to do with you.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I had in mind something more like the Cambridge Dictionary definition:
  1. the basic level of practical knowledge and judgment.
And?

What does that change? Or are you just throwing it out there, and hoping it will land on someone who sides with you? Don't worry, you aren't the first to try to get us to believe common sense has no place here.


Please explain what needs explaining here? To tell me science proves nothing is bunk....period. You got some more spin to add, then do it here, but don 't send me someplace that's going to try to do just as you did with the "common sense" term, that'll no more change my mind than you could.

And on your common, "you lose because you don't have a scientific back ground". I'm not a rocket scientist either, but if one of them lands in my front yard, you darn right I'll be telling them what not to do since they don't seem to have the sense to know themselves.

IOW, the comment means nothing, but whatever it takes I suppose to create the illusion of being right. And BTW, some people just put up a "right" argument to do that, they don't need tricks/illusions such as I see all the time here.

Why do we see such tricks so often once we get into the nitty gritty of a debate? Because that's all they have or ever will have.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I’m sorry to interfere in what seems to be a private argument, but the fundamental issue we all come on here to debate is nothing to do with common sense.

For atheists, there is absolutely no common sense in believing in god or gods.

No private arguments on a public board.

I stopped reading there, I already stated a somewhat in depth reasoning for believing a creator made more sense than from nothing/Poof, and actually, that explains it again so simply....because it is that simple.

However if the Atheist differs from that, fine, nothing new about that.

So it was that, that made me stop reading, and the "nothing to do with common sense part", and that's not to say I don't believe you, matter of fact, I agree 100%....nothing to do with common sense a'tall.
 
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Obliquinaut

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Please explain what needs explaining here? To tell me science proves nothing is bunk....period.

You are wrong. Simply wrong.

Please believe those of us who are scientists who have dedicated decades of our lives to science when we say that science isn't in the game of "proof". As the other poster said it is often used colloquially. But indeed if you read a science paper it will ALWAYS be couched in the possibility that there is an error. The best we can do is provide sufficient evidence such that we are unlikely to be making an error in rejecting the null hypothesis.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Have faith if you like, that’s fine and is a personal thing, but common sense..... please leave that at out of s rational debate.

Oops, sorry accidentally read that part, and find it absolutely hilarious one wold even think such a thing, much less actually say it.

For the moment leave faith out of this completely, and stop using it as an excuse. I'm talking no more than common sense/rational likelihoods, even facts, as in, nothing comes from nothing....now repeat after me, "That is a fact". Sorry but you all give me no other choice but to put it that way. Now, have I got your attention?

So, basically, you are saying..."Leave rationality out of a rational debate because common sense (rationality) tells us something from nothing is not only unlikely, but absurd/nil, even laughable. But since we would rather not believe the rational/there is a God, a creator (Has nothing to do with faith or The true God yet) get that common sense out of here, it has no place in this debate."
 
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Kenny'sID

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Please believe those of us who are scientists who have dedicated decades of our lives to science when we say that science isn't in the game of "proof".

Are you saying also, science proves nothing?
 
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Obliquinaut

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Are you saying also, science proves nothing?

Science attempts to establish facts by preponderance of evidence. There is no "proof" per se. Only sufficient evidence.

Proof is more a mathematical concept.

In science we ALWAYS have to keep in mind that there could be errors in the measurement, errors in the data, etc.

When you read a scientific paper (presumably you have done this?) you will often see on statistics a little value called the p-value. This is a rough way of determining if one is likely to be making an error in rejecting a null hypothesis. It isn't going to be perfectly 0%.

The real honesty of properly done science is to tell you that likely this or that is true given the limitations of the data and the analyses.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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And?

What does that change? Or are you just throwing it out there, and hoping it will land on someone who sides with you? Don't worry, you aren't the first to try to get us to believe common sense has no place here.
And that kind of common sense is a poor guide to the way the world works. The history of scientific discovery is the history of people discovering that what they thought was common sense was mistaken.

Please explain what needs explaining here?
You appear not to realise that proofs are not part of empirical science, but are restricted to the analytic fields of maths and logic. The article explains this.

You can deny the facts, but it doesn't change them.
 
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Kenny'sID

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First let's make clear, this is no more than a disagreement of whether or not science offers proof, I say it does, and that everything I said when I first bout it up is a fact. As long as science works for one to disprove God as the creator, science is great, but when it comes to proving their end, suddenly science is insufficient. It's a con you all don't even know you are pulling on people.

Here is what I mean, and this is science, at least until someone has the nerve to claim it's not and science itself suddenly becomes defined differently, something that would not surprise me a bit.

I put my finger into the fire, my finger gets burned, science has "proven" fires burn fingers.

So, though one may try to complicate the simple into "That's not not a proven scientific fact" it won't change the fact, Science does "prove", and stating it does not, is just a cop out.
 
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Kenny'sID

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You can deny the facts, but it doesn't change them.

And there you go.

Pretend as you will, but I think anyone with any common sense at all can see who is denying the facts.

You appear not to realise that proofs are not part of empirical science, but are restricted to the analytic fields of maths and logic. The article explains this.

Cop out, plain and simple, my last post will explain. You are pretending again.
 
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Kenny'sID

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What's really funny, when folks here make comments such as science proves evolution/no God, or the beginning of time... not a single solitary atheist stands up to say "No it doesn't!"

Where are you all then? As long as it works, let it ride, if it doesn't...don't.
 
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HitchSlap

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Everything in science is provisional. Don’t let it get you down though, there’s always a chance, albeit small, that you might find evidence for god/s
 
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Kenny'sID

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Everything in science is provisional. Don’t let it get you down though, there’s always a chance, albeit small, that you might find evidence for god/s

Science, or what we refer to as science, doesn't get me down at all, I like it, use it all the time. As far as no evidence for God, I guess you really have not been paying attention at all.

A asked a poster yesterday how he thinks the world began and I noticed he conveniently skipped that and a few other questions, so how bout you, Hitch (unless that was you) how do you think it all began?
 
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bhsmte

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Yes I do...so?

And you have no problem with these everyday benefits of science. You do take issue, when the work of science, contradicts your personal religious beliefs though, because it is too painful to acknowledge. I understand your pain, but it doesnt change well evidenced reality.
 
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HitchSlap

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I accept current theories on how the world began.
 
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