My favorite argument for the existence of God

Kylie said:

Yeah, so? I don't need you quoting Bible verses at me. You think I haven't read the Bible?

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I didn't throw it, I typed it out nice and soft like, softly clicked on "Post Reply" and there you have it?

The Bible is the mostly quoted book in the world, especially between those who read the Bible. So maybe I don't understand your question?

HitchSlap said:

Well, did try talking sense to you...

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That quote was to Kylie. But I'll listen to "sensible talk"!?

xianghua said:

hi. i actually refer to the radiometric method in general or other methods taht suppose to show a limit for the age of the universe. so we cant claim that the universe is eternal and therefore it had a beginning. by the way (just as a general note) english isnt my native so i may not understand some of your words in general.

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I agree, any "thing" had to be created, which as you said had to have a beginning.

God is Infinite, and by that He is Eternal also. Infinite is borderless, so there is no way to put anything, or anyone next to, or besides Infinite, .. correct?
So just by the definition of Infinite, it is not some "thing", but Infinite "Is" and since Infinite talked to Moses, and when Moses asked Him "who are you?" God replied: "I Am who I Am, .. tell my People "I Am" has sent me to you!"

Those words; "I Am" means that Infinite is conscious, and through His Prophets we learn that He, "Infinite and Eternal I Am" created all "things".

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I understand not having English as your native language, It is my third language, Hungarian, Serbo-Croatian and then English.

Are you Jewish?

double post

Arius said:

I didn't throw it, I typed it out nice and soft like, softly clicked on "Post Reply" and there you have it?

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Who said anything about throwing? I didn't.

The Bible is the mostly quoted book in the world, especially between those who read the Bible. So maybe I don't understand your question?

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I think you do understand. But in case you need it spelled out, my question is this. What exactly do you think you are going to accomplish by quoting a book to me that I have disregarded entirely?

If I was trying to convince you that wizards are real, would you be convinced by me quoting Harry Potter? If I wanted to convince you that getting bitten by a radioactive spider would give you superpowers, do you think a page from Spider-man would do the job? Of course not. So why oh why do you think showing me a passage from the Bible is going to convince me that your beliefs are correct? Do you think that I have had such a sheltered life that no one has ever pointed out that passage to me before?

What exactly did you think you were going to do?

Because all you've done is show me that you think I'm a fool for not sharing your beliefs, and that makes me think you are arrogant.

Arius said:

That quote was to Kylie. But I'll listen to "sensible talk"!?

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And yet you've already judged me, haven't you? You've judged me to be a fool, so you will not see anything I post as sensible. So you aren't going to listen to me. So why should I waste my time trying to talk to someone who has already decided that everything I say can be dismissed as nonsense?

Arius said:

I agree, any "thing" had to be created, which as you said had to have a beginning.

God is Infinite, and by that He is Eternal also. Infinite is borderless, so there is no way to put anything, or anyone next to, or besides Infinite, .. correct?
So just by the definition of Infinite, it is not some "thing", but Infinite "Is" and since Infinite talked to Moses, and when Moses asked Him "who are you?" God replied: "I Am who I Am, .. tell my People "I Am" has sent me to you!"

Those words; "I Am" means that Infinite is conscious, and through His Prophets we learn that He, "Infinite and Eternal I Am" created all "things".

_____________________
I understand not having English as your native language, It is my third language, Hungarian, Serbo-Croatian and then English.

Are you Jewish?

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By your logic, a sphere is infinite. If you disagree, show me the edge of a sphere.

xianghua said:

yep.

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Then why are you here promoting radical Calvinism? Seems an odd sort of thing for a Jew.

Kylie said:

Who said anything about throwing? I didn't.

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Must be my Mandela-effect acting up again, .. I could swear you said "throw"??

I think you do understand. But in case you need it spelled out, my question is this. What exactly do you think you are going to accomplish by quoting a book to me that I have disregarded entirely?

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You never know?
Have you ever picked up a book, read a few pages and put it aside, and years later picked it up again and wondered how come you never finished reading it seeing how good it was? I did, and one of those books was the Bible.
Hey, just a suggestion OK?

If I was trying to convince you that wizards are real, would you be convinced by me quoting Harry Potter?

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Is this Harry Potter book about proving wizards are real? Because the Bible is all about proving God is real. So yeah, why not?

If I wanted to convince you that getting bitten by a radioactive spider would give you superpowers, do you think a page from Spider-man would do the job?

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If you shown document in the pages of Spider-Man of a scientific experiment proving, or even a theory on how getting bit by a radioactive spider can give you superpowers, of course, I don't see why not?

Of course not.

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Why not?

So why oh why do you think showing me a passage from the Bible is going to convince me that your beliefs are correct?

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Because it has been proven to be correct for thousands of years, and millions of people, including me have verified every claim in there to be correct.

OK, do you believe in the BB-Evolution claims as the answer to your existence? If you Do, can you quote the parts that convinced you that you evolved from a gorilla, and that now you are a happy evolving atheist ape?

Do you think that I have had such a sheltered life that no one has ever pointed out that passage to me before?

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Umm, .. are you going to hate me if I said "yes" ?? If you are, then no, since I don't want you to hate me, .. besides, it doesn't matter either way!?

What exactly did you think you were going to do?

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Umm, .. open your eyes to things you missed, your erroneous views of life, and best of all; "how we came to be" by helping you understand just who your loving Creator is!?

Because all you've done is show me that you think I'm a fool for not sharing your beliefs, and that makes me think you are arrogant.

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I have helped a lot of people throughout my life in many different ways, but not one has ever called me arrogant.
I believed I could help you, but now you will have to ask me for it. If you don't, that's fine, only then, I would not "think" you're a fool, because I am old enough, experienced enough, and wise enough to know better.

Kylie said:

And yet you've already judged me, haven't you? You've judged me to be a fool, so you will not see anything I post as sensible. So you aren't going to listen to me. So why should I waste my time trying to talk to someone who has already decided that everything I say can be dismissed as nonsense?

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I love you Kylie, why would I dismiss anything you say as nonsense? Just because I don't agree with you on some things, I still value your input, no matter how nonsensical it may sound to me.
This is debating where we show evidence to prove our point.

I Am Listening!!!

Kylie said:

By your logic, a sphere is infinite. If you disagree, show me the edge of a sphere.

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Infinite is "borderless", while a sphere is incased in a boarder, .. so it's a good example of the opposite of Infinite.

The edge of a sphere, like a ball for instance is wherever you touch it. Infinite on the other hand has nothing, .. or no "thing" to touch, or see.
Thank you @Kylie now that's debating.

xianghua said:

yep.

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Shalom.

Arius said:

I love you Kylie, why would I dismiss anything you say as nonsense? Just because I don't agree with you on some things, I still value your input, no matter how nonsensical it may sound to me.
This is debating where we show evidence to prove our point.

I Am Listening!!!

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You’re not listening, you’re patronizing.

Arius said:

I agree, any "thing" had to be created, which as you said had to have a beginning.

God is Infinite, and by that He is Eternal also. Infinite is borderless, so there is no way to put anything, or anyone next to, or besides Infinite, .. correct?

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An infinite thing, is still a thing.

And when you start your argument with "anything had to blabla, except this thing, which is special", then you are breaking your own arbitrarily imposed rule and are engaging in the fallacy of special pleading.

Arius said:

Infinite on the other hand has nothing, .. or no "thing" to touch, or see.

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It seems that there is no difference, then, between this type of "infinite" and the non-existant.

Arius said:

Must be my Mandela-effect acting up again, .. I could swear you said "throw"??

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Nope. I didn't edit my post at all (and even if I did, it would have been a few minutes after at most. Your response was nearly a day later).

You never know?
Have you ever picked up a book, read a few pages and put it aside, and years later picked it up again and wondered how come you never finished reading it seeing how good it was? I did, and one of those books was the Bible.
Hey, just a suggestion OK?

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Then I would recommend you read this book once a year. I mean, you never know when you will see it with new eyes.

In any case, the fact that people read it and believe it does not make it true. And quoting Bible verses (throwing them at me, if you prefer ) is not going to make me say, "Hmm, maybe I should read it again." And yes, I have read the Bible all the way through.

Is this Harry Potter book about proving wizards are real? Because the Bible is all about proving God is real. So yeah, why not?

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Which part of the Bible is dedicated to the task of proving that God is real? Can you post the verses for me?

If you shown document in the pages of Spider-Man of a scientific experiment proving, or even a theory on how getting bit by a radioactive spider can give you superpowers, of course, I don't see why not?

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The documentation of how Peter Parker got his powers is quite well known, and has been retold many times. It is remarkably consistent.

Why not?

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Did the above image convince you that getting bitten by a radioactive spider could give you super powers?

Because it has been proven to be correct for thousands of years, and millions of people, including me have verified every claim in there to be correct.

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Except it contradicts both reality and even itself. There are also many claims in the Bible which are incorrect.

For example, the Bible says that Mary and Joseph returned to Bethlehem for a census or taxation (which strikes me as odd - I live in Sydney, but I was born in Vienna, and never have I had to return there for a census or to be taxed). This census was conducted by Quirinus:

But the thing is that Matthew says that Jesus was born in the reign of King Herod:


Unfortunately, King Herod DIED nearly a DECADE before Quirinus became governor!

So how can Jesus have been born at a time when Herod was king AND Quirinus was governor when the two events never happened at the same time?

OK, do you believe in the BB-Evolution claims as the answer to your existence? If you Do, can you quote the parts that convinced you that you evolved from a gorilla, and that now you are a happy evolving atheist ape?

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This site does a much better job of it than I can.

Umm, .. are you going to hate me if I said "yes" ?? If you are, then no, since I don't want you to hate me, .. besides, it doesn't matter either way!?

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No, I won't hate you.

I will, however, think that you have lead a very sheltered life, and if your life has been so sheltered, then maybe you ought to learn what evolution actually is before you start campaigning against it.

Umm, .. open your eyes to things you missed, your erroneous views of life, and best of all; "how we came to be" by helping you understand just who your loving Creator is!?

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Again, do you think that I have had such a sheltered life that you are the first person ever who has done this?

Also, it's rather arrogant to think that your point of view is the only correct one and everyone else must be shown it.

I have helped a lot of people throughout my life in many different ways, but not one has ever called me arrogant.

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Regardless of that, when you come up and start talking to me in a way that shows that you find works for you must also work for me BECAUSE it works for you, that is arrogant.

I mean, I am a Star Trek fan, but I know there are lots of people out there who really don't like it. Let's say I got one of those people, sat them down and told them I was going to show them Star Trek. "No," they'd say, "I've watched it, and I don't like it."

"Oh, but you're wrong, aren't you?" I'd reply. "Here, let me show you why you are wrong."

Wouldn't that make me a jerk? Of course it would.

And yet you are doing that sort of thing with your religious beliefs. You've decided that since they work for you, they must be the best thing ever, and you must share it with me, a poor little atheist. So you quote Bible verses at me and tell me how much you groove about God. And that's fine if you do. But if I wanted to be a part of that, I would have done it already. I don't want to be a part of it, and if you decide that you have any entitlement whatsoever to try to push it onto me, then that makes you arrogant.

I believed I could help you, but now you will have to ask me for it. If you don't, that's fine, only then, I would not "think" you're a fool, because I am old enough, experienced enough, and wise enough to know better.

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I will have to ASK you for it? Oh no! Please, don't do that!

[/sarcasm]

Wow, this is exactly what I meant when I spoke of arrogance. You are now telling me that I will have to ask for something from you that I never wanted in the first place! You can keep it! I'm not interested in hearing about how warm and fuzzy it makes you feel, I'm not interested in your religion sales pitch or your proselytizing. And if that kind of thing is the best evidence that you can present for the existence of your god, then it's little better than those dubious testimonials you see on the infomercials at 3am.

Arius said:

I love you Kylie, why would I dismiss anything you say as nonsense? Just because I don't agree with you on some things, I still value your input, no matter how nonsensical it may sound to me.
This is debating where we show evidence to prove our point.

I Am Listening!!!

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Seriously, ew.

You don't know me. You have made it clear that you think of me as a fool. And you speak of love?

No.

Just no.

Arius said:

Infinite is "borderless", while a sphere is incased in a boarder, .. so it's a good example of the opposite of Infinite.

The edge of a sphere, like a ball for instance is wherever you touch it. Infinite on the other hand has nothing, .. or no "thing" to touch, or see.
Thank you @Kylie now that's debating.

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Please show me the border on the surface of a sphere.