My Enoch Challenge

[VehementiDominus]

Then that begs the question of why. For instance, if The Flood actually happened, why would god want to "clean up" the evidence to make it appear that The Flood never happened? That seems deceitful.

Exactly, that would be deceptive and dishonest - and we all know God doesn't lie, right?

It's like a murderer trying to clean up all the blood at a crime scene, except this crime scene is the whole world and the victims are almost everything alive.

 

[AV1611VET]

Then that begs the question of why.

Do you really feel you have to ask why God cleaned up all that mess?

For instance, if The Flood actually happened, why would god want to "clean up" the evidence to make it appear that The Flood never happened?

He didn't clean up 'the evidence to make it appear that the Flood never happened'.

Your question is so full of misunderstanding, it's pitiful.

He cleaned up the mess; and cleaned it up in the same way He advises us to do it: "decently and in order".

That seems deceitful.

Of course it does -- but only because you won't see the forest for the trees.

You're only fooling yourself, and your word-choices are a display of that fact.

 

[Tiberius]

So lemme get this straight...

God not only removes evidence of the Flood, but makes it so that all available evidence from the real world indicates that the flood couldn't have occured.

And this is perfectly fine to you?

 

[Tiberius]

Or perhaps that if you answered it, you be put in the position of either admitting that there's no just reason for believing in something that has no evidence, or giving equal weight to any nonsense idea that comes along.

And neither of those is very good, is it? And yet that is what your position has led you to.

Want me to ask it without the algebra? Fine.

If an event always causes certain consequences, is there any reaon to believe that the event took place if those consequences do not exist?

don't forget this, AV!

 

[Jazer]

Then that begs the question of why. For instance, if The Flood actually happened, why would god want to "clean up" the evidence to make it appear that The Flood never happened? That seems deceitful.

We are told that God was greived that He made man. So he wanted to "clean up" the mess. That was the whole point of the flood was not to leave any evidence. God was going to start fresh with just Moses and his family.

Gen 6 "God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them".

 

[Wiccan_Child]

We are told that God was greived that He made man. So he wanted to "clean up" the mess. That was the whole point of the flood was not to leave any evidence. God was going to start fresh with just Moses and his family.

Is there any verse that says that the point of the Flood was to wipe out evidence? In my reading of it, I only see references to God's regret* at the sin of humanity.

*How can an all-knowing being regret anything? Didn't he know what would happen?

 

[AV1611VET]

So lemme get this straight...

God not only removes evidence of the Flood, but makes it so that all available evidence from the real world indicates that the flood couldn't have occured.

You sound like that was His intent -- to 'make it indicate that the Flood couldnt have occurred'.

If that was so, then God would not have had the story of the Flood preserved thorough all eternity.

I find it difficult to believe God would intentionally rearrange the aftermath to look one way, and intentionally write the story another.

As I said before, Shem, Noah's son, lived right up to the time of the birth of Jacob -- providing eyewitness testimony of the Flood to everyone who wanted to know what happened.

The written records took it from there.

 

[Nathan Poe]

You sound like that was His intent -- to 'make it indicate that the Flood couldnt have occurred'.

Does God ever do anything He didn't intend to?

If that was so, then God would not have had the story of the Flood preserved thorough all eternity.

He didn't.

I find it difficult to believe God would intentionally rearrange the aftermath to look one way, and intentionally write the story another.

I find it difficult to believe that people still treat this fairy tale as anything but a fiary tale, but there you go.

As I said before, Shem, Noah's son, lived right up to the time of the birth of Jacob -- providing eyewitness testimony of the Flood to everyone who wanted to know what happened.

The written records took it from there.

What utter nonsense -- you're not even trying anymore, are you, AV?

 

[AV1611VET]

What utter nonsense -- you're not even trying anymore, are you, AV?

Not trying what? to think like you?

Guilty as charged.

 

[Jazer]

Is there any verse that says that the point of the Flood was to wipe out evidence? In my reading of it, I only see references to God's regret* at the sin of humanity.

*How can an all-knowing being regret anything? Didn't he know what would happen?

For me I still follow the scientific definition for destroy. I am a annilationist. When God destorys something He does not leave any evidence that it ever existed.

Heb 8 12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

 

[pgp_protector]

For me I still follow the scientific definition for destroy. I am a annilationist. When God destorys something He does not leave any evidence that it ever existed.

Heb 8 12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

Um though wouldn't the Bible be "evidence" (at least according to some) that the events before the flood existed ?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

For me I still follow the scientific definition for destroy. I am a annilationist. When God destorys something He does not leave any evidence that it ever existed.

Heb 8 12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."

Evidently, since it's recorded in the Bible, God does remember it. Besides, what makes you think this applies to every single thing God chooses to annihilate? Why would God go to the effort of wiping out all of humanity with a global flood, and have this event recorded and preserved in the most popular religious text of the modern age - if he didn't want it to be remembered? Doesn't God create the rainbow as a symbol of the Flood?

Hebrews 8:12 doesn't imply that God wipes out evidence, since he evidently left that memory in the Bible itself. So what makes you think it implies he wiped out physical evidence of the Flood?

 

[dlamberth]

Evidently, since it's recorded in the Bible, God does remember it. Besides, what makes you think this applies to every single thing God chooses to annihilate? Why would God go to the effort of wiping out all of humanity with a global flood, and have this event recorded and preserved in the most popular religious text of the modern age - if he didn't want it to be remembered? Doesn't God create the rainbow as a symbol of the Flood?

Hebrews 8:12 doesn't imply that God wipes out evidence, since he evidently left that memory in the Bible itself. So what makes you think it implies he wiped out physical evidence of the Flood?

These types of questions are not allowed. Sorry.

They call into question to much.

.

 

[Tiberius]

I find it difficult to believe God would intentionally rearrange the aftermath to look one way, and intentionally write the story another.

And yet that's exactly what we have!

Let me ask you - other than the bible, is there anything that tells us that the flood occured?

Oh, and don't forget my earlier question... If an event always causes certain consequences, is there any reaon to believe that the event took place if those consequences do not exist?

 

[AV1611VET]

Let me ask you - other than the bible, is there anything that tells us that the flood occured?

Not that I know of; that's why God documented it in His Diary.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Not that I know of; that's why God documented it in His Diary.

So you don't find it difficult to believe that God intentionlly rearranged the aftermath one way, and intentionally wrote the story another.

I feel sorry for you, AV -- you used to at least be consistent.

 

[VehementiDominus]

Not that I know of; that's why God documented it in His Diary.

Why bother "Cleaning up" and hiding the evidence if you're going to write a full confession, anyway?

 

[Jazer]

Why would God go to the effort of wiping out all of humanity with a global flood

He did not wipe out all of humanity. What he did wipe out, there is no record of. In my family we have written records that goes back to 800 ad. Before that date all the records were destroyed. There could not have been what you call a global flood, because of the evidence. The flood had to be what people call a local flood, in the land of Eden. The only thing that remains from Eden is what was on the Ark. Everything else was destoryed and no record of any of it remains, other then a brief mention of it in the Bible.

 

[Jazer]

Why bother "Cleaning up" and hiding the evidence if you're going to write a full confession, anyway?

It is called shadows and types. Isreal was a type of the world today. What God did back then in Isreal He is doing today in the whole world. That is why when God destroyed Isreal in 70 ad, that is a type of the destruction that will soon come upon the whole world at the end of the age we currently live in. Then He will begin something new that will last 1000 years.

 

[dlamberth]

It is called shadows and types. Isreal was a type of the world today. What God did back then in Isreal He is doing today in the whole world. That is why when God destroyed Isreal in 70 ad, that is a type of the destruction that will soon come upon the whole world at the end of the age we currently live in. Then He will begin something new that will last 1000 years.

I don't buy it. God is sounding worse than Satan.

.