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My defense

NightEternal

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Seeing as how I am indeed one of those she has on ignore, I will address the charges as if they are directed at me.

Lebesgue, I'll admit right now that there are people on here that I do not like.

That is strange, considering I have never done anything to you personally to make you 'not like' me.

In trying to conversate with them, I felt like stumblingblocks were being thrown in front of me left and right.

What things have I ever said to you personally that caused 'stumbling blocks'?

Whatever. If that's the case, then don't converse with me. That would make more sense than putting me on ignore.

It's not always all about you and your sensitive feelings that are so easily wounded Trust. You are going to have to learn to deal with all kinds on this forum. Excluding people by ignoring them is completely rude and it only makes you look petty and immature.

It was unedifying to me, and I know it was to them too. Some people don't know how to deal with a stubborn country girl. :)

But you would apparently, by putting them on ignore. :doh:

When I can't find common ground with someone and there is no respect (or what respect was extended in the beginning was lost over the course of time), I have chosen to put them on ignore.

Oh brother. So just because there is no common ground there, the online equivalent of 'talk to the hand' is warranted?

Wow, I wonder how my life would be if I completely ignored every single person I had nothing in common with?

And I hate to break it to you, but I am not going to collapse in a ruined heap if I don't have your respect Trust. I could care less either way.

All I am saying is that I have never said anything I am aware of that would cause this sudden loss of respect. And for you to expect me to somehow know this information through ossmosis, telepathy or mind-reading is quite unreasonable.

So, unless you enlighten me on this, the situation is what it is and it will remain unresolved I suppose.

I know some people do not think we should use the ignore feature here,

No I don't think it should be used. It is immature at best.

but I do, and I'll explain why.

It really doesn't have anything to do with "love", because that is always there. I can be FURIOUS with one of my children but I still love them, you know? It is about respect.

Trust, do you honestly think I care if you are 'furious' with me? I am not one of your children, so the comparison is condescending and patronizing at the very least.

What I would like, however, is to know just what I said to you personally to make you 'furious' with me so that I can address it. That would be the decent thing to do as well BTW.

But, since that is not forthcoming, I have to assume there is nothing I have said to warrant being put on ignore and that this is your own problem.

And where have I ever direspected YOU PERSONALLY BTW? Nowhere.

I use the same principles I do in real life, and if I see someone having what I'd compare to a genuine temper tantrum ("hissy fit" if you're from the south), I have learned, and psychologists will tell you, that it's nothing more than a cry out for attention.

Always this misrepresentation of my posts, as if I was some slathering, psychotic wild-man typing my comments.

The reality is a lot less dramatic, I can assure you. Try calmly sitting at my monitor chewing gum, sipping a Pepsi and eating Doritos for starters with the blood pressure rarely ever exceeding regular levels. ^_^

Of course, people's active imaginations are always more fun to entertain I suppose.

So, your 'hissy fit' assessment is nowhere near accurate.

Unfortunately children want attention so badly sometimes that they don't even care if it's NEGATIVE attention.

I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

I want no attention from anyone, negative or otherwise. That is your own warped analysis of the situation.

I walk away from my youngest son when he's wanting negative attention. I wait until he comes to me and tells me that he's ready for positive attention from me and then I smother him with it.

Could you please give me a break from these condescending comparisons already?

If you continue to insist on labeling all those you have on ignore as 'childen', you will force me to point out your childish behavior as well. Because to my mind, putting me on ignore is not much different than a spoiled little girl putting her fingers in her ears and shouting "NA-NA-NA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

I feel like some people here want negative attention, and to me, that equates to reporting them since we are in the cyber world. If it becomes a problem and all I want to give them is negative attention, I do us both a favor and just put them on ignore.

Did you get your pyschologist degree lately Trust? If not, I'll have to thank you for not applying these absurd analyzations towards me.

No, I do not want your attention or anyone else's for that matter.

'Believe it or not' as the saying goes.

Out of respect for them, and what I feel is disrespect from them, I do put them on ignore. Then I CAN'T report them, and they aren't getting ANY attention from me whatsoever, positive or negative.

Did that make sense?

No, it doesn't. I have never disrespected you prior to this 'ignore' nonsense, and you have yet to point out which post at what time ever warranted such an action.

Still waiting to know BTW.

And why this disturbing claim that we are all clamoring for your attention? I don't see that as the case with anyone else either.

When they want positive attention from me, I'll smother them with it because I love them.

I don't like giving negative attention to anyone. If I feel it's being forced out of me, it's a stumblingblock.

I hope all of that made sense

No, it doesn't. You are obviously on Neptune with this and I am on Mars, because none of your assessments or analyzations had any resemblance to how I am percieving this situation.

This is the situation as I see it, without any amateur Sigmund Freud nonsense attached to it:

We got along perfectly fine prior to this and nothing was ever said to disrespect either of us that I know of.

You suddenly put me on ignore without warning or explanation.

I PM'd you to ask you what was going on which went ignored.

I am now on ignore for no apparent reason and it is left for me to do guesswork to try and make sense of it, because it is apparently too much to ask that I get some sort of personal explanation.

And now, while rudely ignoring me, you have chosen to address the situation in your area without directly talking to me about it thinking that somehow I was not going to respond and defend myself. :doh:

Well, thanks for trying, even if it was done third person. Your explanation, however, didn't make a lick of sense to me though. Indeed, I found it condesending and patronizing.

But, whatever.
 

NightEternal

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Just in case my post over there gets deleted, I will put it here as well for posterity. :)

Honor, why must you always misrepresent everything I post to in order to cast me in the worst light possible?

To clarify:

1.) Yes, Trust has me on ignore. That should have been obvious over the last couple of weeks.

2.) How can you say that these posts here discussing people she has on ignore are 'general' when I am one of those people she has on ignore?! :doh:

Oy, yoi yoi. It just should be so simple to grasp.

3.) Where do you get the idea that this has been 'painful' for me pray tell?:confused: It is not. I am confused more than anything, but I really don't care either way. It it stays unresolved, fine. No skin of my nose. But as a person who is on her ignore list, I have every right to clarify things from a thread discussing people on her ignore list.

4.) Yeah my post was personal. That kind of has to happen when you are addressing a specific PERSON. As she has more people than just me on ignore, she has this luxury of being general. She is the only one I am speaking to and it is her post I am responding to, so it stands to reason....:doh:

5.) No, I am not 'hurt' or 'wounded' by anything. Holy smokes, do you guys think I am some sort of Michael Jackon pansy or something? Lol. I think I made it pretty clear that I was sitting at my keyboard chewing gum and sipping a Pepsi as I typed it. Hardly the actions of someone who is devestated with hurt by anything. :doh:

Where on earth do you guys get this stuff?

6.) There were no 'harsh words' or 'attacks' leveled at Trust. Give me a break. That is a complete misrepresentation of my post. I merely stated my opinions on some matters, nothing more. So, if Trust wants to respond, fine. If not, fine. There is certainly nothing she has to defend herself over.
 
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Adventist Dissident

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Night,

When is the drama going to stop? Ask yourself what have you posted that is not a personal defence or a personal Attack? I have been back here for the last 2 weeks and have not seen 1 thing of any value posted by you. it is all about how you are being attacked and how you are attacking others. What value are you adding to the fourm. I agree with you on your postions,but this is out of control. Everyday almost it is like more and more drama and it is all of a personal nature. it has got to stop.

I suggest you take a break from the fourm, by choice, that way no one can be blammed for you leaving, might I suggest 90 days. you need to reevaluate what you want out of this forum. you are learning, your aren't adding value, it is just one fight after another and there seems to be no purpose. I also suggest that you take time to reevaluate your purpose and style. When you first came here you were Up in your face and Over bearing what purpose did it serve? that is what has brought this "abuse" on. You need to learn to lay low for a while and pick and choose your fights. You can't go after everything and every one. You will never be able to change everyones view and there will always be those who don't like you. I hate seeing what this is doing to you.

Peace friend
 
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NightEternal

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The fact that the person that wanted the rule cannot seem to follow his own advice, ever, and that he's coming in here to harass people now is very telling.

Really? One post in your area clarifying Honor's slanted, inaccurate treatment of my comments and I am 'harrassing' you guys? Are you actually serious with this?

Yeah. Okay. Give me a break.

And yes, I do, in fact, follow my own advice. I made it clear I do not go into your area to say anything unless I am directly or indirectly addressed. That has happened twice now and I responded accordingly and I did so respectfully and calmly. If you find that to be 'harrassment' that is definitely your problem, not mine. Harassment from Trads will no longer be tolerated in here, that is correct. Neither should you guys tolerate it. And since I did not 'harass' anyone over there, I have not broken your rules with my post there.

You need to get over your hyper-sensitive selves and stop jumping the gun assuming everything we Progs post over there is harassing or debating in some way when clearly it is not.

So your charge that I 'never' follow my own advice is pure baloney, to say the least.

Sit back and let people judge that for themselves. Sometimes the person that dug the pit is the one that falls in it.

Seriously Trust, just give it a rest already, please. You apparently have nothing of merit to say about this except to demonize me and you are obviously not going to respond to my OP here or address the real issues, so let's just drop it.
 
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NightEternal

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Night,

When is the drama going to stop? Ask yourself what have you posted that is not a personal defence or a personal Attack? I have been back here for the last 2 weeks and have not seen 1 thing of any value posted by you. it is all about how you are being attacked and how you are attacking others. What value are you adding to the fourm. I agree with you on your postions,but this is out of control. Everyday almost it is like more and more drama and it is all of a personal nature. it has got to stop.

I suggest you take a break from the fourm, by choice, that way no one can be blammed for you leaving, might I suggest 90 days. you need to reevaluate what you want out of this forum. you are learning, your aren't adding value, it is just one fight after another and there seems to be no purpose. I also suggest that you take time to reevaluate your purpose and style. When you first came here you were Up in your face and Over bearing what purpose did it serve? that is what has brought this "abuse" on. You need to learn to lay low for a while and pick and choose your fights. You can't go after everything and every one. You will never be able to change everyones view and there will always be those who don't like you. I hate seeing what this is doing to you.

Peace friend

Ice, when I get more time and if I am still around and haven't been banned, I would like to address your post in more detail.

For now, thanks for the concern buddy. :)
 
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freeindeed2

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Night, I received a PM from the same source saying virtually the same thing only directed at me. It was condescending as well and used many of the exact phrases in your OP. The basic message is this: "If you don't believe the way I do then I don't have time for you and don't respect you and will treat you like a child and report you."

So the report was made and I determined that her PM wasn't really worth responding to. It's a futile effort. Those who believe they already know everything are correct. They already know everything they'll ever know. Unless their heart is softened they're stuck in the rut they've chosen. They are unteachable.

So wipe the dust and focus on those who are open to the Holy Spirit (GOD) continuing to teach and lead them.

In CHRIST alone...
 
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Adventist Dissident

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since we are talking about honorthesabbath, I believe it should be noted that I gave her a "complement" by mistake and she caused a big fuss over that. so I don't think you are ever going to change her. it is not you Night, How a person chooses to react to a situration is not up to you. Honor see things that are not there.
 
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NightEternal

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Childish. Completely.

But hey-at least you got the courtesy of a PM Free. I sat there like a clueless idiot for about a week having one-sided conversations with her until I finally realized what was up.

Well, no one can say I didn't attempt to try and have some sort of civil exchange with her to work this matter out.
 
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NightEternal

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Ice, I had a whole long response to your post typed up and when I tried to submit it...

The site went down for upgrades. The whole thing was lost. :doh:

I'll just say that I agree with some parts of what you said and disagreed with others.

As for 'drama', you have been involved in some yourself don't forget. Your war with Woob and Honor during your run for a mod position is only one example that stands out.
 
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NightEternal

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Why bother? I'm a country girl and I don't have any problems with you. Just cause your a city slicker with all them fancy light pictures you like to show off .....

Yup. Urban boy to the end Annie. It's the bright city lights for me.

Always has been, always will be. :thumbsup:
 
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Night, I have to agree with you that there isn’t much here that I feel the need to defend myself against. What I read (yes, curiosity finally got the best of me) was someone totally confused as to why I put them on ignore.

For the record, if I get reported for this post, I think it should be very obvious that I was baited to come here. Unfortunately you weren’t the only one that baited me though.

At first I thought your post was probably THE worst case of bearing false witness against me that I had ever read. Then it dawned on me, that if you HAD received my PM, you would’ve posted it in here and announced to everyone how wrong I am about you and how someone you have referred to as “the voice of reason” on many occasions had somehow slipped into mental illness overnight…because the possibility of me not caring about our differences in theology, and just truly not liking you as a person would just be too unheard of.

Free, however, definitely did bear false witness against me. There wasn’t ONE thing in my PM to him that talked about me being mad that he disagreed with me. I’ll post the PM if anyone cares to see it. He derailed my thread, misrepresented the Adventist church’s view on what a soul is, and flamed me. It had nothing to do with the fact that he doesn’t agree with me or Adventist theology, because we’ve all been aware for months now that he doesn’t.

Back to you, Night….I was thinking about the PM and when I sent it, and if I remember correctly, I sent it to you in pretty close proximity of the time you got banned, the first time I think. I don’t know if that affected the transmission of the PM, but it was in my “sent” folder for a long time before I deleted it and you never responded. I thought that was uncharacteristic of you not to respond to me and I had braced myself for a “oh nooooo, the invasion of the Trad body snatchers got YOU too! No way could you have formed an opinion all on your own that I’m a huge hypocrite” response.

I apologize that you didn’t get the PM, and I don’t want you to be clueless anymore, so if you’d like, I can type up another one and explain why I don’t like you as a person, and how it went way past theology a long time ago. When that happens, the ignore feature is a last resort.

A lot of the posts I linked to in the original have no doubt been deleted by now, but I can give you the general examples of your hypocrisy if you want.

I can send you a PM or I can post it in here for you so that you can report me (you guys have quite the racket going on now, don’t you?). It’s up to you.

**I hope you do realize that the ignore feature on this site is pretty useless really. If someone quotes you, I still see it. If I’m subscribed to a thread, I receive an e-mail that someone posted to it, and that e-mail shows me who it was from and what they said.

I choose what I read and what I don’t. I choose if I wish to respond or if I don’t. I pick my battles and you haven't been one of them for a long time.**
 
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freeindeed2

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Free, however, definitely did bear false witness against me. There wasn’t ONE thing in my PM to him that talked about me being mad that he disagreed with me.

You 'being mad' isn't what I was making reference to. I recognized several phrases and ideas in the OP of this thread that you included in the PM to me. It was condescending. I clarified what I meant by stating the basic message that came through. That is not 'bearing false witness against you.'

I’ll post the PM if anyone cares to see it. He derailed my thread, misrepresented the Adventist church’s view on what a soul is, and flamed me.

The two posts you refer to do NOT constitute a 'derailment'. I asked you where you ranked the Gospel in your list and you would not answer, got snippy, snide, and started making threats. It was not intended to derail the PUBLIC thread where DISCUSSION is to take place.

The funny thing is the post you reported for 'derailment' was talking about the soul!

I may have misrepresented YOUR view of what the soul is, but I taught the SDA view long enough to know what it is. I've seen SDA churches split over this very issue each taking opposite sides, yet both still full-fledged SDA churches.

It had nothing to do with the fact that he doesn’t agree with me or Adventist theology, because we’ve all been aware for months now that he doesn’t.
That's not news tao. I announced that I did not agree with SDA theology from my very first post here. It's the very reason I resigned in the first place. That I disagree with you has much to do with your responses to me.

In CHRIST alone...
 
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TrustAndObey

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That's odd that your post went in front of mine. I guess they haven't worked out all the bugs on here after the update.

Anyway......

Free said:
"You 'being mad' isn't what I was making reference to. I recognized several phrases and ideas in the OP of this thread that you included in the PM to me. It was condescending. I clarified what I meant by stating the basic message that came through. That is not 'bearing false witness against you.'

I was responding “in kind” to your implication in my soul thread that somehow the Gospel didn’t measure up and was unimportant in my “list” of importance when seeking a church. That was the most condescending, off-topic thing I’ve ever read.

Now if you’re being honest, you’ll admit that’s exactly what you were implying. I’ve chatted online for a long time Free, and I know from experience that if someone doesn’t have anything to fire back with to refute a topic, they move on to personal attacks, and that’s exactly what you did.

I have two experiences to draw my coping mechanisms from……growing up and raising children of my own. In dealing with adults that want to break the rules constantly, I have to draw from the experiences I’ve had from raising children that naturally try to break the rules and push the envelope. I’m sorry if you think that’s condescending.



Free said:
The two posts you refer to do NOT constitute a 'derailment'. I asked you where you ranked the Gospel in your list and you would not answer, got snippy, snide, and started making threats. It was not intended to derail the PUBLIC thread where DISCUSSION is to take place.

To answer you would’ve meant total derailment of the thread. It was totally off-topic and had NOTHING to do with the subject of the thread.

Free said:
The funny thing is the post you reported for 'derailment' was talking about the soul!

No mention that the post also talked about my “cherry-picked theology”?

Free said:
I may have misrepresented YOUR view of what the soul is, but I taught the SDA view long enough to know what it is. I've seen SDA churches split over this very issue each taking opposite sides, yet both still full-fledged SDA churches.

Wrong. Adventists believe the soul is the body plus breath. It's a breathing creature and is not immortal until the resurrection. It’s been a while since you taught it if you think Adventists feel the soul is just “breath”. We believe the SPIRIT is our breath, our life essence…but not the SOUL, which is what the thread was about.


Free said:
That's not news tao. I announced that I did not agree with SDA theology from my very first post here. It's the very reason I resigned in the first place. That I disagree with you has much to do with your responses to me.

Really? Well, let’s inject some honesty into that comment a second, shall we? I recall thanking you for your very first posts here, because unlike so many posters before you, YOU were the only one that I felt warranted me picking up my bible for the first time in 15 months.

Not only that, I recall back-and-forth e-mails where I completely opened up to you as another human being and as a father. I did, and still do, like you as a person and I don’t care that you left the Adventist church.

I didn't start questioning your honesty until you started making snide remarks about Adventism, while you declare YOURSELF an Adventist when it’s convenient….but hey, if you think you’ve been called here to save all of us from our mistakes in beliefs, I can’t say too much about it I suppose.

I don't think you're honest about the reasons you do it though.

My sister and her family are here from Colorado, so I have to go shower and go spend some time with them.

Peace out.
 
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NightEternal

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No Trust, I did not get a PM from you.

Wow, I'm a hypocrite and you don't like me as a person. Even though I have not had any run-ins with you or issues with you personally prior to this that I am aware of. Indeed, you weren't posting for weeks for a while there, so how could that have been possible? We haven't had direct conversation in a long time and the ones we had in the early days were civil and reserved.

Yeah, that makes all the sense in the world. :doh:

But yes, I have went to war with some of your Trad comrades and friends over the last year. Bitterly. Yet I cannot think of one reason why that would involve you or result in any problems with you personally. Nor should it. None of those confrontations had anything to do with you and I have never had any beefs with you on that level.

Whatever. I guess you are going to make it about us no matter what.

But you should know that every single Trad on here I have viciously locked horns with came after me first. And I have said before, I will defend myself when someone attacks either me or my beliefs.

Because I was raised to never take crap from anyone and I will not. Not in real life and not in here. Ever.

And you can expect the same thing if you make it a point to do what they did. However, that has never been a problem with you and I don't expect it ever will be. Your style is not the same as Honor, Woob, Jon, Doc, YourNeighbor, Bourbaki or DL. Some on that list have went out of thier way to outright bait, mock, belittle, harass, humiliate, antagonize and provoke me in the past. And you want to talk about baiting? How many times has my forum name been used as an excuse to barb and goad me or as a vehicle to imply I am some demonic person who embraces the 'darkness' of evil and the endless 'night' of Satan? Cheap shots and pathetic tactics to be sure, but clearly some instigators are not above doing it. And, of course, we never hear the Trads address any of that, do we?

You give me the gears for being too aggressive in my approach. Yet somehow it seems to totally escape you that some of your Trad pals are just as bad. The only difference is that my aggression is out there and no attempt is made to hide it. With the exception of Honor and Woob, they are what is called passive-aggressive. And just because thier aggression is cloaked better in subtle jabs, innuendo, sarcasm and implication so that it isn't as obvious to the mods, doesn't mean they aren't just as capable of trashing Progs in a more subtle way.

And I am not the only one who realizes this, believe me. And I know some mods who see it as well.

I will give you this much though-at least you have tried to hold some of your mean-spirited companions accountable for this behavior, which is more than I can say for any of the other moderate Trads who seem to always want to give thier more outspoken, confrontational collegues a free pass and place the blame entirely upon me. Some of your more militant buddies have sent me hate-PM's and two even resorted to using a sock-puppet account in order to continue the assault against me.

But I am the big, bag, evil, demon-Prog who is 'not nice' to Trads.

Give me a break.

Some of my collegues consider me to be foolish for always falling for thier bait, but don't ever think I regret giving any of them the verbal beat-down they deserve when any of those things have been done to me. Because I do not. And I will again if they continue to provoke me.

So, from this, I can only gather that you are doing this out of loyalty and allegiance to those of your compatriots that I have 'gotten into it with.' You don't like how I treated them so you put me on ignore. You feel my approach with them was too abrasive.

Very well then. If you think I am a hypocrite for whatever reason and don't like me as a person, so be it. I wasn't put on this earth to tickle the fancy of you or anyone else here. I am who I am and that's the way it will always be. I will stay true to my personality and not force myself to be something I am not in order to give you or anyone else warm fuzzies. Certainly there are more than a few Trads here whose beliefs, attitudes and personalities repulse me, but I have never demanded they change who they are to conform to what I want them to be like. We all have different, unique personalities and none of us are expected to like all of them. Neither should I be expected to change who I am to please you or somehow force myself to fall into your definition of what constitutes a 'nice and acceptable person'. Given that you and others here would probably report Paul for saying he wished the knife would slip on the Trad circumcision party or put John on ignore for calling Trads a 'brood of vipers' and claim both are not being 'nice', such a thing doesn't really hold much weight with me.

No need to send me another PM. I get the message loud and clear.

So I guess we are done then if this is how you truly feel.

Have a nice life.
 
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NightEternal

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Good luck carrying on any sort of reasonable dialogue out there with a quarter of the forum on ignore BTW (what are you at now, six people? That is, until more who don't meet your personal standards are given the great kiss-off.)

That should work out just fine for you I suspect. :doh:
 
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Night I understand that sometimes the trads can do really irritating things.

But aren't you being hypocritical? You acuse trads of complaining a lot while a lot of your posts complain as well.

I understand where you're coming from but you just irritate me sometimes. We've won several victories. The prog area is free. Why don't we actually resume the original intent of this section of the Adventist forum. It seems we're so used to complaining we don't even know what we were fighting for!
 
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NightEternal

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Night I understand that sometimes the trads can do really irritating things.

But aren't you being hypocritical? You acuse trads of complaining a lot while a lot of your posts complain as well.

I understand where you're coming from but you just irritate me sometimes. We've won several victories. The prog area is free. Why don't we actually resume the original intent of this section of the Adventist forum. It seems we're so used to complaining we don't even know what we were fighting for!

I know exactly what I am fighting for. Equal representation all across the board for Progs (including the main forum) as well as fair treatment for us and for our vioces to be regarded just as important and valid as thiers. In order to do that, we need an equal amount of Prog mods in power so that we can overhaul the ridiculous rules in this place and make this forum one that reflects ALL the different segments of Adventism, not just the Trad one alone at the exclusion of all others. This place is a DISCUSSION BOARD. It's not supposed to be a Trad apologist vehicle, nor is it a P.R. recruitment tool for the fundamentalists to shove thier agenda down everyone else's throats and indoctrinate people. So why are we just sitting back and allowing them to turn it into one!?

Our area is not out of the woods yet Mankin. They can still spite-report us in here and have our posts censored. We have gained some victories yes, but we can push this thing a lot farther than we have and make our area a bastion of free-speech, protected from harassment through the report system.

Sorry to iritate you. It was not my intention.
 
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NightEternal

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Well since Jesus expected people to know who His disciples were by their love for one another the fact some of us don't even like one another and seem quite proud of it shows we got a long way to go...... how sad.

Not proud of it Moicherie. It just is what it is.

No one here is going to like everyone else. That just is not realistic in this sort of setting where we have so many different personalitites and character clashes.
 
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