My Darwin Quote Challenge

[Smidlee]

Right, because there was no chance Victorian England already thought that.

Darwin theory would likely have never heard of if he put the black man on top.

 

[HitchSlap]

Darwin theory would likely have never heard of if he put the black man on top.

On top of what?

 

[Smidlee]

On top of the "most civilized race that will rule the world" chart.

 

[HitchSlap]

On top of the "most civilized race that will rule the world" chart.

Oh, you mean the bible.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why?

I'm curious as to how many justify it.

 

[HitchSlap]

I'm curious as to how many justify it.

Justify what?

 

[MerlinJ]

If you're interested in knowing his actual thoughts on race, read chapter 7 of the book AV quote mined from.

http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?pageseq=227&itemID=F937.1&viewtype=side

 

[HitchSlap]

If you're interested in knowing his actual thoughts on race, read chapter 7 of the book AV quote mined from.

http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?pageseq=227&itemID=F937.1&viewtype=side

Did you mean this for me? If so, I've read Origin, and I'm aware of what Mr. Darwin was trying to express.

AV is a Christian, and like so many of his ilk, he intentionally twists and quote mines that I was simply trying to coax out his true intent. But alas, as always with AV, if it weren't for semantics and innuendo, he'd have nothing to say.

 

[MerlinJ]

Did you mean this for me? If so, I've read Origin, and I'm aware of what Mr. Darwin was trying to express.

There are a few people speculating on his views about race in this thread, but my post wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

Also the book in question is Descent of Man, not Origin of Species.

 

[HitchSlap]

Also the book in question is Descent of Man, not Origin of Species.

Thanks.

 

[[serious]]

I doubt it.

Proverbs 14:3a In the mouth of the foolish is a rod of pride:

 

[AV1611VET]

Justify what?

The OP.

 

[pshun2404]

The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.

So the gap will be wider than the gap between the negro...and gorilla (which implies it is small)

 

[MerlinJ]

So the gap will be wider than the gap between the negro...and gorilla (which implies it is small)

In the context of mid-19th century England, where virtually all Englishmen viewed themselves as superior to even the Irish, whom some viewed as a separate species entirely, Darwin was pretty liberal in his views concerning race. Read chapter 7 if you want a better idea of what those views were.

http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/frameset?pageseq=227&itemID=F937.1&viewtype=side

His point in the quote you highlighted is that the gap between humans and our nearest relatives will likely widen in the future, simply because species tend to go extinct. The various species of Chimpanzees, Gorillas, and Orangutans are all endangered--some critically.

 

[florida2]

I'm curious as to how many justify it.

I disagree with it and I'm sure many nowdays would also want to distance themselves from it.

If you look at the historical context of the time it's not an unusual sentiment at all. The idea of 'civilised' races being better than uncivlised ones was the basis of most empires and was a commonly accepted idea - you can see it just as clearly in the USA at the time.

Although I don't defend the quote per se, I would say that it is also a product of the time.

You don't have to agree with everything Darwin ever said 100% to accept evolution.

 

[AV1611VET]

The idea of 'civilised' races being better than uncivlised ones was the basis of most empires and was a commonly accepted idea - you can see it just as clearly in the USA at the time.

Here's the quote again:

At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace the savage races throughout the world.

How did you get "being better than" out of "almost certainly exterminate"?

If one race considered another race "more civilized" and wanted to exterminate them, how is that different from one race considering another race "less civilized" and wanting to exterminate them?

Either way, one race wants to exterminate another.

 

[florida2]

Here's the quote again:


How did you get "being better than" out of "almost certainly exterminate"?

If one race considered another race "more civilized" and wanted to exterminate them, how is that different from one race considering another race "less civilized" and wanting to exterminate them?

Either way, one race wants to exterminate another.

If you actually read my post I was first setting out the historical concept and the generally accepted idea of different races of humans being superior and inferior.

Why are you talking about less civilised races exterminating more civilised ones?

Western countries and empires were built on being more civilised than those they ruled. Along with that came greater military power, wealth, education etc. Darwin's suggestion that savage races, as he put it, would one day disappear would not be shocking at all to Victorian sensibilities.

What are you trying to prove with this thread?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Explain this quote:

Writing at a time when the imperialist powers of Europe were carving up Africa and Asia, and aboriginal cultures were being marginalized (or destroyed) in Australia and the Americas, he made a prediction about the fate of the 'savage races'. I don't think he expresses any approval of this state of affairs. As a prediction, there is some truth to it, in that indigenous tribes in the Amazon, etc. are disappearing due to the encroachment of 'civilization'. On the whole, I think his prediction will not turn out to be correct (to be fair, we have to give it a few more centuries). The racist attitudes of his day may have precluded him from imagining the 'savage' races becoming 'civilized' rapidly, and almost certainly precluded him from imagining assimilation and intermarriage.

 

[AV1611VET]

Darwin's suggestion that savage races, as he put it, would one day disappear would not be shocking at all to Victorian sensibilities.

I thought Darwin said "eliminate."

Yes, eliminate would result in disappearing, but I get the impression you're using the Arab phone to water down the quote.

And challenging me as to what I'm trying to prove isn't cutting it either.

 

[AV1611VET]

Writing at a time when the imperialist powers of Europe were carving up Africa and Asia, and aboriginal cultures were being marginalized (or destroyed) in Australia and the Americas, he made a prediction about the fate of the 'savage races'. I don't think he expresses any approval of this state of affairs. As a prediction, there is some truth to it, in that indigenous tribes in the Amazon, etc. are disappearing due to the encroachment of 'civilization'. On the whole, I think his prediction will not turn out to be correct (to be fair, we have to give it a few more centuries). The racist attitudes of his day may have precluded him from imagining the 'savage' races becoming 'civilized' rapidly, and almost certainly precluded him from imagining assimilation and intermarriage.

Good reply ... thanks.