MY Darwin Challenge.

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Yeah. I did not answer that question because I agree with you that Darwin is an interesting starting point but the science has moved way beyond that point making any detail that was wrong, moot.

They like using him because he isn’t here, his books are accessible to lay people and there are so many canned arguments that don’t require thought or knowledge to use.

I agree on that part: he's dead so he's an easy target. Plus, since he's seen as the 'father' of evolution, then it's easy to think that showing him to be wrong, means that evolution must be wrong in its totality.

 

[Frank Robert]

At the atomic level, I cannot tell you where Darwin got it wrong, and I cannot tell you where Darwin got it right.

I have to assume that, in the academic arena, he is considered more right than wrong, since he's being so venerated.

But please understand that, where he is wrong, I have no choice but to let it matter to me.

Especially when it comes time to vote on school levies.

It is not difficult at all if follow the evidence. Oh wait. Creationists are not allowed to follow the evidence if it contradicts their belief in a literal reading of the bible. Non-creationist Christians don't have that problem.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why 'unfortunately'? Is Darwin such an apostate to you that you wish to engage in intellectual iconoclasm; that every vestige of Darwin MUST be wiped off the earth if he is shown to be wrong? That he must be erased from history because he offended you so?

Nope.

Think about it.

What put him there in the first place?

What gave him his title? what gave him a plot in a prominent graveyard? what put his face on a bank note? what put his name on the map?

This isn't the Hollywood Walk of Fame, where you'll see so many names it doesn't matter anymore.

This isn't the football or baseball hall of fame, where there are so many people crammed in there now, you can go visit and see "famous" people whose names you've never heard of before.

This is the FATHER OF EVOLUTION.

Ooooooo!

(Or is it, eeeeeeew?)

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Nope.

Think about it.

What put him there in the first place?

What gave him his title? what gave him a plot in a prominent graveyard? what put his face on a bank note? what put his name on the map?

This isn't the Hollywood Walk of Fame, where you'll see so many names it doesn't matter anymore.

This isn't the football or baseball hall of fame, where there are so many people crammed in there now, you can go visit and see "famous" people whose names you've never heard of before.

This is the FATHER OF EVOLUTION.

Ooooooo!

(Or is it, eeeeeeew?)

... oh yeah, you believe that science is controlled by Satan. I forgot about that.

 

[AV1611VET]

It is not difficult at all if follow the evidence.

Follow it where?

Back to the ocean, where we supposedly crawled out from some chemical compound?

And on the way back there, do we have to step over more missing links than Mike Tyson's victim's dental records?

Or play connect-the-dots on paper?

Just to show we're mutant, copy-error apes, made in the image and likeness of God?

No thanks.

 

[AV1611VET]

... oh yeah, you believe that science is controlled by Satan. I forgot about that.

Yup -- delegated to his nine Muses, who are in charge of the arts & sciences.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Yup -- delegated to his nine Muses, who are in charge of the arts & sciences.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Doesn't say anything about science in that passage, but that's besides the point, because you only say that about science you don't like.

Duplicitous.

 

[AV1611VET]

Doesn't say anything about science in that passage, but that's besides the point, because you only say that about science you don't like.

It's not the science I don't like -- science can take a hike.

It's who's behind it running the show.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It's not the science I don't like -- science can take a hike.

It's who's behind it running the show.

And yet you only ever attack science and scientists. That's the only thing you go after.

 

[AV1611VET]

And yet you only ever attack science and scientists. That's the only thing you go after.

Is that why I started this thread?

Science as a Blessing

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Is that why I started this thread?

Science as a Blessing

Hence why I call you duplicitous. Especially when you say "SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE"

 

[AV1611VET]

Hence why I call you duplicitous. Especially when you say "SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE"

LOL -- so I either only attack science, or I'm duplicitous?

Catch 22?

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

LOL -- so I either only attack science, or I'm duplicitous?

Catch 22?

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

Not a catch-22 at all, and you're not John the Baptist, nor Jesus either.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not a catch-22 at all, and you're not John the Baptist, nor Jesus either.

Are we done now (I hope)?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Are we done now (I hope)?

Until next time.

 

[Frank Robert]

Follow it where?

Back to the ocean, where we supposedly crawled out from some chemical compound?

And on the way back there, do we have to step over more missing links than Mike Tyson's victim's dental records?

Or play connect-the-dots on paper?

Just to show we're mutant, copy-error apes, made in the image and likeness of God?

God must surly have had a sense of humor when he set the laws of nature in motion.

No thanks.

You 'no thanks' says it all. A literal interpretation of the bible is based on a minority christian belief. Just goes to prove that:

 

[frank sears]

The appeal of Darwin was that he gave people an excuse not to believe in God, and since there is no God (to them), then they could do whatever they wanted without feelings of guilt.

 

[Frank Robert]

The appeal of Darwin was that he gave people an excuse not to believe in God, and since there is no God (to them), then they could do whatever they wanted without feelings of guilt.

If that is true then Darwin didn't convince many people to become atheists

7%
According to sociologists Ariela Keysar and Juhem Navarro-Rivera's review of numerous global studies on atheism, there are 450 to 500 million positive atheists and agnostics worldwide (7% of the world's population) with China alone accounting for 200 million of that demographic.

Even among Christians:
Most Christians worldwide, as represented by statements from their governing bodies are in fact accepting of biological evolution as being fully compatible with their faith
​

 

[Phroderick]

The appeal of Darwin was that he gave people an excuse not to believe in God, and since there is no God (to them), then they could do whatever they wanted without feelings of guilt.

I don't believe that's accurate. Darwin himself was almost a priest. He believed quite fervently in God. He studied nature as a way of becoming closer to God. What he found surprised him.

 

[Mountainmike]

In response to AV1611VET's challenge question of "Was Charles Darwin qualified to say we came from Africa?", I shall ask my own question:

Why does it matter so much that Darwin has to be shown to be right or wrong about anything he directly said about evolution?

Dude's dead. He can't change the theory of evolution no more than Wellington could change the course of WW1.

There are several disconnected issues .

First what Darwin said. I believe his comment was limited to saying what he considered our closest relatives such as chimpanzees were from Africa. He had no formal biological pathway.

Second , it matters because you presume evolution from Darwin.
Clearly others built on that foundation. But if the foundation is rotten so is the building on it.

Third because Darwin put in his own test to falsify his theory. “ if anyone can show an organism developed from other than small change, my theory is false. “

the heart tissue forensic evidence in so called Eucharistic miracles , And the forensics of the bleeding statue of Cochabamba triggers that test. Complex Human tissue that didn’t come from progressive change. It wa far too rapid for that. And it was progressive change , so not a substitution. That is why they are so important. So Darwin is falsified by his own test. As is the origin of life now questionable.