My cousin is going off the deep end

[Gnarwhal]

I feel silly even posting about this because the answer is kind of Occams Razor, but I'm also debating whether I should respond.

Long story short: my cousin has begun a new career as a "life coach" (I know, ew) and she's gathered a big following on Instagram, almost 5,000 followers. She's older than me and has had a lot of trauma in my life, her dad was never around when she was a kid, her first husband walked out on her and their four kids, and then her second husband walked out on her because his son was becoming violent towards her.

What's really weirding my family and I out is that she's taking aim at Christianity as the repressive source of all her pain. She should be acknowledging that she's chosen men poorly and the culprit is the fact that she had an absentee father for the first 25-30 years of her life.

But now her posts on social media over the past six months to a year have taken a more inappropriate tone. She's been on the attack against Christianity's morality, especially revolving around the body, sex, and sexuality. She's made some uncomfortable posts about 'hiding' her femininity and then the straw that broke the camel's back for me was a post she made a couple days ago with a picture card that just said "Masturbation is not sin" followed by a long caption railing on Christianity for essentially being nosy about what people do in the privacy of their homes.

I just find that I'm offended by this new worldview she's adopted not just because of it's content but because she was basically raised by my grandma, one of the most pious and devout Christians I've ever known, and I can just imagine how deeply hurt my grandma would be by my cousin basically walking away from the faith and entertaining a lot of this new age, secular, feminist trash.

My first instinct was just to unfollow her, and I'm still going to do that, but I wonder whether I should respond first. I just don't know what the ripple effects might be of me wading into that swamp. For context, I've never been close to my cousins or any extended family other than my grandma. I think in part because my cousin was just old enough that she was always at a slightly different stage of life than me so we never tried to hang out, but we've get along well. I wouldn't call us friends though like a lot of people are with their extended family.

I typed up this response and I'm still debating whether I might post it to her comments, "Gotta disagree cuz. As a Catholic I affirm the Church’s teaching on the conjugal act which states that it must be both unitive and procreative. Anything that isn’t unto both of those ends runs contrary to the natural law, including masturbation. If I’ve learned anything in the last 15 years it’s that while Protestant doctrine is often (and almost always) arbitrary, Catholic teaching is always well-reasoned and developed from 2000 years of natural wisdom and divine revelation"

 

[Michie]

I feel silly even posting about this because the answer is kind of Occams Razor, but I'm also debating whether I should respond.

Long story short: my cousin has begun a new career as a "life coach" (I know, ew) and she's gathered a big following on Instagram, almost 5,000 followers. She's older than me and has had a lot of trauma in my life, her dad was never around when she was a kid, her first husband walked out on her and their four kids, and then her second husband walked out on her because his son was becoming violent towards her.

What's really weirding my family and I out is that she's taking aim at Christianity as the repressive source of all her pain. She should be acknowledging that she's chosen men poorly and the culprit is the fact that she had an absentee father for the first 25-30 years of her life.

But now her posts on social media over the past six months to a year have taken a more inappropriate tone. She's been on the attack against Christianity's morality, especially revolving around the body, sex, and sexuality. She's made some uncomfortable posts about 'hiding' her femininity and then the straw that broke the camel's back for me was a post she made a couple days ago with a picture card that just said "Masturbation is not sin" followed by a long caption railing on Christianity for essentially being nosy about what people do in the privacy of their homes.

I just find that I'm offended by this new worldview she's adopted not just because of it's content but because she was basically raised by my grandma, one of the most pious and devout Christians I've ever known, and I can just imagine how deeply hurt my grandma would be by my cousin basically walking away from the faith and entertaining a lot of this new age, secular, feminist trash.

My first instinct was just to unfollow her, and I'm still going to do that, but I wonder whether I should respond first. I just don't know what the ripple effects might be of me wading into that swamp. For context, I've never been close to my cousins or any extended family other than my grandma. I think in part because my cousin was just old enough that she was always at a slightly different stage of life than me so we never tried to hang out, but we've get along well. I wouldn't call us friends though like a lot of people are with their extended family.

I typed up this response and I'm still debating whether I might post it to her comments, "Gotta disagree cuz. As a Catholic I affirm the Church’s teaching on the conjugal act which states that it must be both unitive and procreative. Anything that isn’t unto both of those ends runs contrary to the natural law, including masturbation. If I’ve learned anything in the last 15 years it’s that while Protestant doctrine is often (and almost always) arbitrary, Catholic teaching is always well-reasoned and developed from 2000 years of natural wisdom and divine revelation"

It’s up to you. I think I’d be most offended because of your grandmother. She obviously has an audience and is latching on to the all too common life coach label to make a buck so I’m not so sure I’d be wanting to speak out because of the waves it may send within the family. I’d simply unfollow her and pray for her.

 

[zippy2006]

I typed up this response and I'm still debating whether I might post it to her comments, "Gotta disagree cuz. As a Catholic I affirm the Church’s teaching on the conjugal act which states that it must be both unitive and procreative. Anything that isn’t unto both of those ends runs contrary to the natural law, including masturbation. If I’ve learned anything in the last 15 years it’s that while Protestant doctrine is often (and almost always) arbitrary, Catholic teaching is always well-reasoned and developed from 2000 years of natural wisdom and divine revelation"

Hard to know whether to respond, but I would suggest something different than an argument from Catholic authority. This is because what she apparently denies more than anything is Catholic/Christian authority. I would try to write something that is short, simple, and which she would find worthy of consideration from her own perspective.

Masturbation is the compulsive behavior of a self-focused addict. Even outside of religious circles it is widely recognized as pathetic. In the eyes of our secular culture the masturbator is the person who can't get the real thing and is therefore settling for an impoverished substitute. Using that as a stick to beat Christianity is not persuasive, even in the secular realm.

 

[Gnarwhal]

It’s up to you. I think I’d be most offended because of your grandmother. She obviously has an audience and is latching on to the all too common life coach label to make a buck so I’m not so sure I’d be wanting to speak out because of the waves it may send within the family. I’d simply unfollow her and pray for her.

I'll probably, most likely, go that route just because if I were to get into it with my cousin at all it could impact my mom's relationship with her brother, which is just slowly starting to build after 50+ years of neglect.

Hard to know whether to respond, but I would suggest something different than an argument from Catholic authority. This is because what she apparently denies more than anything is Catholic/Christian authority. I would try to write something that is short, simple, and which she would find worthy of consideration from her own perspective.

Masturbation is the compulsive behavior of a self-focused addict. Even outside of religious circles it is widely recognized as pathetic. In the eyes of our secular culture the masturbator is the person who can't get the real thing and is therefore settling for an impoverished substitute. Using that as a stick to beat Christianity is not persuasive, even in the secular realm.

Really good points, appealing to the secular argument against it sort of says "look even the side you're supposedly on now isn't necessarily ok with this."

 

[Chrystal-J]

I have a sister who's hardcore atheist. I pray for her salvation nightly. I was shocked that she asked to go to church with me last year when I had a Mass for my mom. I thought she'd never set foot in a church. She hasn't gone since, but had only nice things to say about the interior of the church.
Anyway, pray for your cousin. The power of prayer may be the only thing to turn her life around.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I don't think your preplanned response will do any good. Once people get into this mindset their opinion does not change based on any information or anything anyone has to say. They also get hostile. It's a demonic takeover and it's between them and God with our prayers aiding.

 

[narnia59]

Hard to know whether to respond, but I would suggest something different than an argument from Catholic authority. This is because what she apparently denies more than anything is Catholic/Christian authority. I would try to write something that is short, simple, and which she would find worthy of consideration from her own perspective.

Masturbation is the compulsive behavior of a self-focused addict. Even outside of religious circles it is widely recognized as pathetic. In the eyes of our secular culture the masturbator is the person who can't get the real thing and is therefore settling for an impoverished substitute. Using that as a stick to beat Christianity is not persuasive, even in the secular realm.

I agree with this. I think expressing how you find following Catholic teaching has actually freed you, how it has impacted you personally for the better has a better chance than any appeal to Church authority. It's also more difficult for the other person to take personally since you're simply witnessing to your own personal experience and it's harder for them to become combative. After all, to each their own right?

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Hard to know whether to respond, but I would suggest something different than an argument from Catholic authority. This is because what she apparently denies more than anything is Catholic/Christian authority. I would try to write something that is short, simple, and which she would find worthy of consideration from her own perspective.

Masturbation is the compulsive behavior of a self-focused addict. Even outside of religious circles it is widely recognized as pathetic. In the eyes of our secular culture the masturbator is the person who can't get the real thing and is therefore settling for an impoverished substitute. Using that as a stick to beat Christianity is not persuasive, even in the secular realm.

A highly disagree. Secular culture has been pushing masturbation as self love and as something healthy for a long time. Just type something generic about masturbation into Google and you get this stuff in droves. The cousin has drank the Kool aid.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Down is up and up is down. Secular atheist LGBT indoctrination and leftism has turned EVERYTHING around. Very little about our cultural norms and ways of thinking from even 10 years ago is the same. Every sin is now wonderful.

 

[mourningdove~]

The cousin has drank the Kool aid.

Sadly, yes.

She has bought into the lies.

So, I do not believe confronting her will be effective or help in any way.
It will most likely alienate her.

Prayer ... I believe that is the most effective approach.

 

[zippy2006]

A highly disagree. Secular culture has been pushing masturbation as self love and as something healthy for a long time. Just type something generic about masturbation into Google and you get this stuff in droves. The cousin has drank the Kool aid.

They have tried to do so, but I don't think it has worked very well. At least masculine secularity hasn't drank that sort of Kool-Aid. Perhaps feminine secularity is different.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

They have tried to do so, but I don't think it has worked very well. At least masculine secularity hasn't drank that sort of Kool-Aid. Perhaps feminine secularity is different.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

World's Largest Masturbation Survey Uncovers How Traditional Views of Masculinity Prevent Men from Having Fulfilling Sex Lives & Relationships

/PRNewswire/ -- TENGA Co. Ltd., a sexual health and wellness company providing innovative and diverse sexual products focused on design, quality, function and...

www.prnewswire.com

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World's Largest Masturbation Survey Uncovers How Traditional Views of Masculinity Prevent Men from Having Fulfilling Sex Lives & Relationships​

TENGA 2018 Global Self-Pleasure Report Profiles Men who "Feel More"
- Approximately 90 percent of Americans believe men in their country exemplify outdated masculinity or "manly" stereotypes in contrast to what men believe of themselves
- More than half (56%) of American men "Feel More" - they prioritize connections to others and being able to express themselves without judgment
- 20 percent of men who "Feel More" have better relationships and are happier, healthier and more satisfied in their personal and sexual lives

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NEWS PROVIDED BY
TENGA Co. Ltd.
30 Apr, 2018, 10:10 ET

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TOKYO, April 30, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- TENGA Co. Ltd., a sexual health and wellness company providing innovative and diverse sexual products focused on design, quality, function and pleasure, today announced the results of the TENGA 2018 Global Self-Pleasure Report. Building on previous research, TENGA developed the world's largest survey on masturbation, compiling data from more than 13,000 respondents age 18-74 across 18 countries. Timed to celebrate and recognize Masturbation Month starting May 1, data reveals men across the globe – 41 percent in America – feel pressured to act "manly" based on outdated assumptions about masculinity.

Most men don't see themselves as traditionally "manly"
The survey, which asked Americans to evaluate which characteristics they believe men in their country value, found approximately 90 percent of Americans think men value traditionally "manly traits" like physical strength, aggression, assertiveness and being the main breadwinner. However, when asking men what they actually value, the results found that men are more comfortable talking about their feelings and connecting with others, and less comfortable being aggressive, than Americans realize.

• Eighty-eight percent of men claim to be in touch with their emotions, but only 54 percent of Americans think this is important to men in their country.
• Seventy-seven percent are comfortable talking about their feelings or personal challenges with others, but only 51 percent of Americans surveyed think this is true of American men.

The survey results also revealed men's feelings towards progressive social issues, including:

• Gender equality in the workplace – 94 percent of men value gender equality in the workplace, but only 64 percent of Americans realize men do.
• Care about social issues – 83 percent of men care about social issues, but only 72 percent of Americans realize men do.
• Comfort with different sexual orientations – 80 percent of men are comfortable interacting with people of all sexual orientations, but only 56 percent of Americans realize men are.
• Americans underestimated these progressive social values by as much as 30 percent.

Stereotypes of "manliness" pervade into sexuality and relationships
Stereotypes about what men value create misconceptions about sexuality and masturbation. Americans underestimate how many men and women touch by about 9-10 percent.

• Ninety-two percent of American men touch but Americans only think 83 percent of men do; and, 76 percent of American women touch but Americans only think 66 percent of women do.
• Eighty percent of men who have used sex toys say they are useful for improving their masturbation experience but only 53 percent of Americans think sex toys are useful for men.
• Most American men – 75 percent – are open to trying new sexual experiences and 53 percent are open to using a sex toy.
• On a global level, the survey found that 78 percent of adultsi in the world touch yet respondents across each country underestimated the number of people who take part in self-pleasure by an average of 11 percent.

Problematic implications for societies reinforcing outdated gender stereotypes
Due to these misconceptions of masculinity, men often end up behaving in ways intended to impress or fit in with what men perceive as the gender norm.
"It's important we realize being empathetic and open to the needs of yourself and those around you isn't weak or taboo, but rather a necessity to break down social stigmas and allow everyone to be their authentic selves," says Dr. Chris Donaghue, PhD, LCSW, CST, ACS, licensed sex therapist and TENGA brand ambassador. "These social stereotypes tell men to disconnect from their emotions, objectify women and resolve conflicts through violence which, as we've seen, end up hurting men and women at large, on a global level."
Men are a lot more "feeling" than stereotypes may lead us to think. To encourage men to have the confidence and courage to "Feel More" openly, TENGA is encouraging men to initiate conversations with their partners so they are empowered to "Feel More" for the betterment of themselves and society during Masturbation May and beyond. By fostering an environment where sexuality is mainstream, TENGA aims to combat negative stereotypes about gender norms and sexuality misperceptions that are often harmful.
Men who "Feel More" are emerging and it is what society needs
About 56 percent of American men, 46 percent of British men and 40 percent of German men "Feel More." Of the American men, 50 percent of Baby Boomers, 62 percent of Gen Xers and 59 percent of Millennials were men who "Feel More." For the purposes of this study, men who "Feel More" were defined as more open with feelings and desires and more empathetic and inclusive of others.

• About 91 percent of respondents interested in male partners said their ideal man is in touch with his and others' emotions, is comfortable discussing mental health (90%) and talking about sex (88%), caring of social issues (86%) and comfortable interacting with people of all sexual orientations (83%).
• Compared to this ideal man, the same respondents said their current male partners are much less likely to have these traits – 12 percent less, on average.

The survey revealed men are already moving in this direction with many benefits to being a man who "Feels More," including:

• A better relationship with their partner: the emotional connection with partners is 20 percent better on average.
• More self- and body- confidence: 63 percent of men who "Feel More" have high levels of self-confidence vs. 54 percent of other men; that means they are 8 percent more likely to think they have a beautiful body.
• Overall higher levels of happiness: 45 percent of men who "Feel More" strongly agree that they are happy with their lives vs. 29 percent of other men.
• A better sex life: the quality and frequency of their sex, masturbation and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] are 20 percent better, on average than other man. They are also 18 percent more sexually satisfied with their partners.
• Better overall health: 89 percent of men who "Feel More" say they have good overall health vs. 81 percent of other men; they are also 11 percent more likely to belong to a gym.

Men who "Feel More" are 11 percent more likely to touch more than once per month, and are more open to using sex toys by 23 percent.
Open communication, honesty within relationships could offset misperceptions
While there may still be challenges to fostering environments where individuals, mainly men, can "Feel More" and pursue connections they value, there are already pathways forming. Forty-seven percent of Americans believe society would benefit if people were more open to discussing sexual topics. Men who "Feel More" are already clearing the way for better communication in relationships – 55 percent of "Feel More" men discuss masturbation and sexual needs with their partners versus only 32 percent of other men. This is what their partners want – American respondents ranked honesty, trustworthiness and intelligence as the most important traits for their "ideal" man – similar to those around the world. In fact, 12 of the 18 countries surveyed selected honesty as the most preferred trait in an ideal male partner.
Based on the survey results, TENGA encourages men to "Feel More" by being open with their emotions, empathetic toward others and forthcoming about masturbation and sexual patterns within relationships. TENGA believes masturbation should be an accepted and important part of sex and sexuality, and aims to further cultural acceptance and elevate the conversation around gender dynamics and healthy sexual relationships on a global-scale by encouraging an open dialogue between significant others, family and close friends.
Eddie Marklew, Global Marketing Manager at TENGA, says, "Masturbation is not always meant to imitate or replace sexual exchange, but it can create a more fun and beneficial experience, especially among partners, leading to more satisfaction with that partner and in general. By understanding behaviors and attitudes toward masturbation, we hope to evolve the discussion around self-pleasure from secretive to celebratory, enabling our users to bring the best tools to the party."
The State of Masturbation Around the World
Other key findings from the survey include:

• Fifty-three percent of American men are open to using a sex toy on himself and 71 percent are open to using one on his partner.
• People in the United States who have used sex toys report being more satisfied with their sex life across all metrics, but especially when looking at quality (82 percent vs. 55 percent) and frequency (78 percent vs. 55 percent) of masturbation.
• 78 percent of adults in the world touch, including: 96 percent of British men, 93 percent of German men, and 92 percent of American men; 78 percent of British women, 76 percent of German women, and 76 percent of American women.i
• Only 18 percent of respondents in the United States, 15 percent in the United Kingdom and 11 percent in Germany feel it is important to talk about masturbation with people they are close with.
• Of the countries surveyed, India, Mexico and Brazil are ranked highest for sex life satisfaction.
• Fifty-seven percent of younger Millennials (18-24 years-old) touch weekly, more likely than any other age group.
• Of those who touch, gay and bisexual individuals are 20 percent more likely to touch weekly than heterosexual individuals.
• The average age in which people begin masturbating varies slightly by country: 15.2 in the United States, 15.3 in the UK and 15.8 in Germany.

• Ninety-two percent of American men touch but Americans only think 83 percent of men do; and, 76 percent of American women touch but Americans only think 66 percent of women do.
• Eighty percent of men who have used sex toys say they are useful for improving their masturbation experience but only 53 percent of Americans think sex toys are useful for men.
• Most American men – 75 percent – are open to trying new sexual experiences and 53 percent are open to using a sex toy.
• On a global level, the survey found that 78 percent of adultsi in the world touch yet respondents across each country underestimated the number of people who take part in self-pleasure by an average of 11 percent.

 

[zippy2006]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong.

Because a pro-masturbation company conducted a study and fulfilled their self-fulfilling prophecy? That's not very convincing at all. Please stop filling the Catholic forum with pro-masturbation propaganda.

Of course there has been a shift, and the sin is viewed more positively than it was decades ago, but I have found that the masculine culture is still largely wary of masturbation. The study itself bears this out, finding the best demographics for its self-fulfilling prophecy among non-masculine and non-heterosexual persons.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Because a pro-masturbation company conducted a study and fulfilled their self-fulfilling prophecy? That's not very convincing at all. Please stop filling the Catholic forum with pro-masturbation propaganda.

Of course there has been a shift, and the sin is viewed more positively than it was decades ago, but I have found that the masculine culture is still largely wary of masturbation. The study itself bears this out, finding the best demographics for its self-fulfilling prophecy among non-masculine and non-heterosexual persons.

Pro masturbation propaganda? Lol! I think masturbation is emasculating, sinful, for low T losers, and degenerate. You're just simply wrong. There's not "some shift." The vast majority of men are jerking it and aren't afraid to admit it because of the "healthy" propaganda. This is delusional dude.

 

[zippy2006]

Pro masturbation propaganda? Lol! I think masturbation is emasculating, sinful, for low T losers, and degenerate. You're just simply wrong. There's not "some shift." The vast majority of men are jerking it and aren't afraid to admit it because of the "healthy" propaganda. This is delusional dude.

That's wonderful that you found that study convincing. Probably if Camel conducted a study which found that cigarettes are excellent for your health you would also find that study deeply convincing, and would go around posting it all over the internet. Still, what you are doing is drowning this thread in pages of copy-and-pasted pro-masturbation propaganda. Don't do that, at least on the Catholic forum.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

"Gotta disagree cuz. As a Catholic I affirm the Church’s teaching on the conjugal act which states that it must be both unitive and procreative. Anything that isn’t unto both of those ends runs contrary to the natural law, including masturbation. If I’ve learned anything in the last 15 years it’s that while Protestant doctrine is often (and almost always) arbitrary, Catholic teaching is always well-reasoned and developed from 2000 years of natural wisdom and divine revelation"

I'd only tell her my opinion about her life if she asked me.

And then, I would have a lot of respect when I did it.

Usually - I try to see if I can make peace were possible.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I feel silly even posting about this because the answer is kind of Occams Razor, but I'm also debating whether I should respond.

Long story short: my cousin has begun a new career as a "life coach" (I know, ew) and she's gathered a big following on Instagram, almost 5,000 followers. She's older than me and has had a lot of trauma in my life, her dad was never around when she was a kid, her first husband walked out on her and their four kids, and then her second husband walked out on her because his son was becoming violent towards her.

What's really weirding my family and I out is that she's taking aim at Christianity as the repressive source of all her pain. She should be acknowledging that she's chosen men poorly and the culprit is the fact that she had an absentee father for the first 25-30 years of her life.

But now her posts on social media over the past six months to a year have taken a more inappropriate tone. She's been on the attack against Christianity's morality, especially revolving around the body, sex, and sexuality. She's made some uncomfortable posts about 'hiding' her femininity and then the straw that broke the camel's back for me was a post she made a couple days ago with a picture card that just said "Masturbation is not sin" followed by a long caption railing on Christianity for essentially being nosy about what people do in the privacy of their homes.

I just find that I'm offended by this new worldview she's adopted not just because of it's content but because she was basically raised by my grandma, one of the most pious and devout Christians I've ever known, and I can just imagine how deeply hurt my grandma would be by my cousin basically walking away from the faith and entertaining a lot of this new age, secular, feminist trash.

My first instinct was just to unfollow her, and I'm still going to do that, but I wonder whether I should respond first. I just don't know what the ripple effects might be of me wading into that swamp. For context, I've never been close to my cousins or any extended family other than my grandma. I think in part because my cousin was just old enough that she was always at a slightly different stage of life than me so we never tried to hang out, but we've get along well. I wouldn't call us friends though like a lot of people are with their extended family.

I typed up this response and I'm still debating whether I might post it to her comments, "Gotta disagree cuz. As a Catholic I affirm the Church’s teaching on the conjugal act which states that it must be both unitive and procreative. Anything that isn’t unto both of those ends runs contrary to the natural law, including masturbation. If I’ve learned anything in the last 15 years it’s that while Protestant doctrine is often (and almost always) arbitrary, Catholic teaching is always well-reasoned and developed from 2000 years of natural wisdom and divine revelation"

I would try to keep some form of communication open even though she has gone off the deep end. After all, maybe you are the one who can pull her on board when she starts gasping for air. In the mean time pray for her. It's sad to see the train wreck of our culture in real time, particularly the wounds caused by absent fathers leading to abysmal choices in husbands.