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Muslims: what is the logic behind these verses in the Qur'an?

Yi-man

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If you actually read what you post and what I post (which you don’t), you’d see there is no contradiction to what the Bible says, the Church Father’s said, or what the article says, Secularism has so far done many things including many immoral things. This coming from a Muslim is also very hilarious, since you women can’t even leave the house without a Mahram and your talking about freeing women?

The controversy over whether divorce and remarriage is allowed according to the Bible revolves primarily around Jesus’ words in Matthew 5:32 and 19:9. The phrase “except for marital unfaithfulness” is the only thing in Scripture that possibly gives God’s permission for divorce and remarriage. Many interpreters understand this “exception clause” as referring to “marital unfaithfulness” during the “betrothal” period. In Jewish custom, a man and a woman were considered married even while they were still engaged or “betrothed.” According to this view, immorality during this “betrothal” period would then be the only valid reason for a divorce.

However, the Greek word translated “marital unfaithfulness” is a word which can mean any form of sexual immorality. It can mean fornication, prostitution, adultery, etc. Jesus is possibly saying that divorce is permissible if sexual immorality is committed. Sexual relations are an integral part of the marital bond: “the two will become one flesh” (Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5; Ephesians 5:31). Therefore, any breaking of that bond by sexual relations outside of marriage might be a permissible reason for divorce. If so, Jesus also has remarriage in mind in this passage. The phrase “and marries another” (Matthew 19:9) indicates that divorce and remarriage are allowed in an instance of the exception clause, whatever it is interpreted to be. It is important to note that only the innocent party is allowed to remarry. Although not stated in the text, it would seem the allowance for remarriage after divorce is God’s mercy for the one who was sinned against, not for the one who committed the sexual immorality. There may be instances where the “guilty party” is allowed to remarry, but they are not evident in this text.

Some understand 1 Corinthians 7:15 as another “exception,” allowing remarriage if an unbelieving spouse divorces a believer. However, the context does not mention remarriage but only says a believer is not bound to continue a marriage if an unbelieving spouse wants to leave. Others claim that abuse (spousal or child) is a valid reason for divorce even though it is not listed as such in the Bible. While this may very well be the case, it is never wise to presume upon the Word of God.

Sometimes lost in the debate over the exception clause is the fact that, whatever “marital unfaithfulness” means, it is an allowance for divorce, not a requirement for it. Even when adultery is committed, a couple can, through God’s grace, learn to forgive and begin rebuilding their marriage. God has forgiven us of so much more. Surely we can follow His example and even forgive the sin of adultery (Ephesians 4:32). However, in many instances a spouse is unrepentant and continues in sexual immorality. That is where Matthew 19:9 can possibly be applied. Many also look to quickly remarry after a divorce when God might desire them to remain single. God sometimes calls people to be single so that their attention is not divided (1 Corinthians 7:32–35). Remarriage after a divorce may be an option in some circumstances, but that does not mean it is the only option.

The issue several pages back was can a Christian woman divorce an abusive husband, and the answer is no. She may only divorce if her partner is a non believer or if he commits adultery.

The Hadith I provided shows Muslim women can divorce their husband in a straight forward manner, although the majority are forced to remain married in often abusive marriages due to cultural peer pressure. One has to make the clear distinction between what a Religion teaches and the cultural practices of different groups of people.
 
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Barney2.0

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The issue several pages back was can a Christian woman divorce an abusive husband, and the answer is no. She may only divorce if her partner is a non believer or if he commits adultery.

The Hadith I provided shows Muslim women can divorce their husband in a straight forward manner, although the majority are forced to remain married in often abusive marriages due to cultural peer pressure. One has to make the clear distinction between what a Religion teaches and the cultural practices of different groups of people.
If her husband is abusive he is a non believer so she may divorce him. A believing husband won't beat his wife. Please quote the Hadith.
 
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Barney2.0

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The art of tying knots is they should be easy to undo, they are temporary.

To splice two parts together is to interweave the strands, they become one.

Likewise when two halfsouls join together they become one.

In most cases people do not know who they are marrying, they only think they do.

Something like when Jakob wed the "wrong"
sister.

But with time and effort they may learn to love each other.

Look at wedding photos from hundred years ago, no one was smiling.
Today if no one is smiling something is wrong.
When we tie a knot we become one, if you don't know who your marrying and end up saying the sacred vows over it whose fault is it but yours. For years divorce has broken up marriages destroyed families and split up siblings. Marriage is not a knot of shoe laces that become untied when finished its use, its a sacred bond where you pledge he rest of your life to another person, its no joke.
 
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Barney2.0

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The art of tying knots is they should be easy to undo, they are temporary.

To splice two parts together is to interweave the strands, they become one.

Likewise when two halfsouls join together they become one.

In most cases people do not know who they are marrying, they only think they do.

Something like when Jakob wed the "wrong"
sister.

But with time and effort they may learn to love each other.

Look at wedding photos from hundred years ago, no one was smiling.
Today if no one is smiling something is wrong.
When we tie a knot we become one, if you don't know who your marrying and end up saying the sacred vows over it whose fault is it but yours. For years divorce has broken up marriages destroyed families and split up siblings. Marriage is not a knot of shoe laces that become untied when finished its use, its a sacred bond where you pledge he rest of your life to another person, its no joke.
 
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Yi-man

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If her husband is abusive he is a non believer so she may divorce him. A believing husband won't beat his wife. Please quote the Hadith.

It's well documented that lots of believing husbands beat their wives, even amongst the clergy.

Al-Bukhaari (4867) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him) that the wife of Thaabit ibn Qays came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, I do not blame Thaabit ibn Qays for any defect in his character or his religious commitment, but I would hate to commit an act of kufr (disbelief) when I am a Muslim.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Will you give him back his garden [which he had given as mahr/dowry]?” She said, “Yes.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said (to Thaabit), “Accept the garden, and divorce her once.”
 
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Robban

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When we tie a knot we become one, if you don't know who your marrying and end up saying the sacred vows over it whose fault is it but yours. For years divorce has broken up marriages destroyed families and split up siblings. Marriage is not a knot of shoe laces that become untied when finished its use, its a sacred bond where you pledge he rest of your life to another person, its no joke.

I do not need you to tell me about divorce.

If people know who they are marrying why then,
"Why do you always...?"
"Why do you never....?

Do they not already know?

Get your nose out of the textbook and try to get with it.
 
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Barney2.0

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It's well documented that lots of believing husbands beat their wives, even amongst the clergy.

Al-Bukhaari (4867)narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him) that the wife of Thaabit ibn Qays came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, I do not blame Thaabit ibn Qays for any defect in his character or his religious commitment, but I would hate to commit an act of kufr (disbelief) when I am a Muslim.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Will you give him back his garden [which he had given as mahr/dowry]?” She said, “Yes.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said (to Thaabit), “Accept the garden, and divorce her once.”
So just because he's in the clergy, he's a believer? Thaabit was the one who divorced her, she did not divorce him.
 
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Barney2.0

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I do not need you to tell me about divorce.

If people know who they are marrying why then,
"Why do you always...?"
"Why do you never....?

Do they not already know?

Get your nose out of the textbook and try to get with it.
Arguments happen in all relationships, however marrying the wrong person will always be your problem.
 
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Barney2.0

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Best you pray that you hit the jackpot then.
That's not how you meet the right women as women aren't objects, they aren't jackpots to be found nor are they knots that we untie. When you meet the right women who is a believer with strong faith, has good morals, and cares for you as much as you care for her, then you'll have an unbreakable bond.
 
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Robban

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That's not how you meet the right women as women aren't objects, they aren't jackpots to be found nor are they knots that we untie. When you meet the right women who is a believer with strong faith, has good morals, and cares for you as much as you care for her, then you'll have an unbreakable bond.

Really I should feel sorry for you,

I may express myself a little wierd, I do not have such a big wordstore to take from.

But I am not stupid.
 
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Barney2.0

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Really I should feel sorry for you,

I may express myself a little wierd, I do not have such a big wordstore to take from.

But I am not stupid.
I don’t really care, my friend.
 
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Robban

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I don’t really care, my friend.

I painted a picture, taking a knot as illustrating a marriage that is built on loose ground,
Example,
"if there is any difficulty, we call it a day"
and a splice,
which illustrates a more permanent bond.

Then you come along and kicked away the legs of the eazle,




You did not even look at the picture,

If you had you may have sensed something of what the picture was illustrating.

But, the same for me, go you your way.
 
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smaneck

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Find me something different did from what the Rasidun did. Sufis pray at shrines Salafis don’t allow prayer at shrines, how do I find the correct basis based on a Quranist and Quran only approach.

Again, this is irrelevant because the question is can the Qur'an be understood without ahadith and tafsir? Now if you want to change the subject to intercessory prayer, hadith and tafsir won't help you either because Sunnis and Shi'is have different ones. And aside from Ali, they don't much care for the Rashidun. Besides the Companions of the Prophet were still alive. Why would they have saint shrines?
 
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smaneck

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Secularism has freed Christian women as previously, (within last 100 years) they had little to no rights in areas of divorce, inheritance and ability to cast a free vote.

Correct. Up until the end of the 19th century women had more legal rights in then Islamic world than she had in the West. But to be fair women in the Islamic world did not have nearly as much freedom of movement and without that legal rights are hard to exercise.
 
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